ENTP 4w3 -- Is this possible?

[erg]

I'm pretty sure that I'm 4w3 in enneagram, and the type that most likely fits me best in MBTI is ENTP (but I am willing to discuss other possibilities here). So now I ask; are there any other 4w3 ENTP's or it is not a possible combination? Any info will be appreciated.

 

[1487610420]

try a more lean personality diet, then see if anything else fits.

 

[Norrsken]

I think they exist, just in a very small number.

 

[Hawthorne]

Absolutely possible. Possibly improbable.

 

[Yama]

Some are more unlikely than others, but no combination is impossible.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

Tell us how ENTP and 4w3 work together. Others will either point out how wrong your typing is, or we get to hear about an interesting topological combination.

 

[erg]

That sounds a bit difficult, but I can try. First some history; when I first discovered typology many years ago, I tested INTJ in the various MBTI tests I took. I read the descriptions I generally agreed with it, but after joining INTJforum and interacting with some of the self-typed INTJs there, I noticed that I was not very similar to them. Then I became more proficient at MBTI after learning about the functions, to the point that I was somewhat able to identify which ones were being used by an individual (although I also took a few of the test that test for function strength) I came to the conclusion that my preferences were Te Ni Se Fi, and for some reason I could also use Ne as well or even better than I could use Te. But I knew I was no ENTJ; neither descriptions nor comparisons with ENTJs I had met seemed congruent. So then I came upon Socionics, which solved the problem for me: I am a socionics LIE-Ni (Ni-ENTj), which expalined why I could use Ne well, and Fe to some extent. But now I don't know what I am in MBTI. I picked ENTP now because it seems the best fit. INTJ, INFJ or INTP could work too, but I am hesitant to pick ENTJ (which is what I truly am wired as) but even then, a 4w3 ENTJ is even less likely I think.

On it working together with 4w3... I saw somewhere (I think it was at ptypes -- there was a table that showed various correlations between MBTI type, enneagram type, type of personality,, and disorders they could develop) that 4w3 and 3w4 both correlated with a "inventive" type of personality. And that is certainly what I am... I am always coming up with ideas and correlations, and I'm always experimenting and testing those intuitions. The creativity of 4w3 fuels the ENTP drive for experimentation. You have to also consider that my tritype is 4w3-5w6-8w9, so the subjetivity of 4w3 is tempered by the objetivity of 5w6 (I think both types are close in my preference, but my heart rules my head most of the time).

 

[cascadeco]

On it working together with 4w3... I saw somewhere (I think it was at ptypes -- there was a table that showed various correlations between MBTI type, enneagram type, type of personality,, and disorders they could develop) that 4w3 and 3w4 both correlated with a "inventive" type of personality. And that is certainly what I am... I am always coming up with ideas and correlations, and I'm always experimenting and testing those intuitions. The creativity of 4w3 fuels the ENTP drive for experimentation. You have to also consider that my tritype is 4w3-5w6-8w9, so the subjetivity of 4w3 is tempered by the objetivity of 5w6 (I think both types are close in my preference, but my heart rules my head most of the time).

I don't think tying enneagram 4 with inventiveness makes sense at all. Also, 4 doesn't have anything to do with testing correlations and ideas; you are describing being ENTP. Perhaps some 4's are 'inventive', but it's not what makes a 4 a 4; or a 4w3 a 4w3. Enneagram is about fears. When you look at disintegration of e4; even e4's at their healthiest, do you relate to the drivers? Do you relate to the primarily emotional context of the inner world? To shame and envy? These things being driving forces of your life?

Do you relate to all of this?
Fours | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

------------

Do you relate to this, whether in your past, having moved beyond it, or presently?

There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.

Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.


-----------------------

Does this description of health levels and disintegration when less healthy describe you?



Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.

Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.

Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

Average Levels

Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.

Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.

Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.

Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

 

[cosmic royal]

I've seen someone on PerC with that combination. They seem quite confident on their typing, so who am I to question? I think ENTP 4w3s exist, but it's a very unorthodox combination.

 

[erg]

I don't think tying enneagram 4 with inventiveness makes sense at all. Also, 4 doesn't have anything to do with testing correlations and ideas; you are describing being ENTP. Perhaps some 4's are 'inventive', but it's not what makes a 4 a 4; or a 4w3 a 4w3. Enneagram is about fears. When you look at disintegration of e4; even e4's at their healthiest, do you relate to the drivers? Do you relate to the primarily emotional context of the inner world? To shame and envy? These things being driving forces of your life?


Do you relate to all of this?
Fours | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

First of all, I'll be honest: I dislike talking about my 4-ish qualities because it conflicts with my 8 fix of not letting my weaknesses be known. It also makes me feel ashamed. I have looked at everything I have found about 4's in the past, and the essence of it fits me, even though some particulars like for example "surrounding myself in beauty" (I am very spartan in my daily living), or "atttracting a rescuer"(rescue from? I'll rescue myself), don't.


------------

Do you relate to this, whether in your past, having moved beyond it, or presently?

There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.

Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.

Yep. But I have learned over the years to accept myself a bit more and also appreciate my good qualities. Nice story.

-----------------------

Does this description of health levels and disintegration when less healthy describe you?



Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.

Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.

Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

Average Levels

Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.

Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.

Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.

Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

Hmm, yeah... I've actually been far down those levels in the past.

So you think I am ENTP, but you doubt my 4w3 typing?

 

[cascadeco]

First of all, I'll be honest: I dislike talking about my 4-ish qualities because it conflicts with my 8 fix of not letting my weaknesses be known. It also makes me feel ashamed. I have looked at everything I have found about 4's in the past, and the essence of it fits me, even though some particulars like for example "surrounding myself in beauty" (I am very spartan in my daily living), or "atttracting a rescuer"(rescue from? I'll rescue myself), don't.


------------



Yep. But I have learned over the years to accept myself a bit more and also appreciate my good qualities. Nice story.



Hmm, yeah... I've actually been far down those levels in the past.

So you think I am ENTP, but you doubt my 4w3 typing?

I don't know you at all, so can't make any assessment like that. I was just sharing type 4 elements, since what you had briefly written didn't have anything to do with the heart of being a 4, in case you hadn't seen them before and to see if you indeed related. Like others have said, the combo is odd, but in terms of fears and the human condition, anything is possible I suppose. [There is an infj 7 on this board I believe; if an infj 7 is possible, then an entp 4 is possible / they exist, no doubt]

 

[Mayflower]

Any Combination is possible. ENTP 4 is not common, that is for sure, but I am sure there are. Similarly, many people say IxFx 8s are not possible, but I'm pretty sure there are some out there. If you are a 4, cool. Just because statistically 4s for ENTPs are rare, doesn't mean you should be discouraged from considering that your true type.

 

[chubber]

yes, usually it's 3w4 but I guess 4w3 can work too.

I tested as 4w5, but after closer inspection, found that I was rather 5w4. I don't run towards emotions like 4s do. So I can't be a 4, but the wing makes sense.

 

[erg]

I think they definitely do exist, at least in fiction. What do you make of this guy?