[ENTJ] ENTJ's, Maybe just misunderstood?

[Jaguar]

Lucifer--

Obviously the meaning of life is subjective.
Why not cut to the chase and state such, to begin with?
Shoot straight or get rid of the gun.

The atrocities committed in the name of religion are so numerous,
I wouldn't be satisfied with claiming it creates a singular false meaning.
You are being too kind.

 

[Lucifer]

You are running out of ways to refute my argument and are now merely saying I should have said it faster?
Evan clearly has caught what was said by first post, and I refer you to him in the future so he can translate words into thought for you.

I do not have the time to go over everything that religion, in its many forms, has done because it is a long list.
I say religion generically, instead of speaking of a single belief, because the majority push the same drug.

I have no vision? I think you should read your signature, and think hard.

 

[Blank]

It's all okay, Jaguar just misunderstood you.

Puns definitely intended.

 

[Jaguar]

You are running out of ways to refute my argument and are now merely saying I should have said it faster?

What is this, Romper Room?

"If people could learn to take solace in the fact that there is not meaning to life"

That quote claims X is a "fact" when no such proof exists.
Opinions are not facts, no matter what you think.
But then your thoughts aren't much of anything, in this thread.
Just double-talking bullshit, masquerading as substance.


1) ENTJ's don't write : "the world is mine, in time."
2) ENTJ's main priority is not "refuting arguments."

You are an unhealthy ENTP if there ever was one.
Quit posing as an ENTJ.

 

[Ace_]

I'm hoping this Lucifer guy is still 17 or something, hormones raging and all that.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm hoping this Lucifer guy is still 17 or something, hormones raging and all that.

He's a little college kid.
Check his profile.

 

[Lucifer]

Ho hum.
The fact is that there not a meaning to life. When I say this, as I have before it refers to no singular meaning, no singular truth. This was directed at religion in particular but is not limited to it.
We will never understand how matter came in to existence, before the Big Bang.
That one statement proves we cannot ever know everything.
If there is uncertainty then there is absence of the truth or inability to find it.
If the truth is absent then something else must take it`s place: acceptance or lies.
I do not understand why you continue to avoid this.

That quote claims X is a "fact" when no such proof exists.

Really? Prove the meaning of life. Whatever you say is going to be subjective, because there is no universal meaning of life.
You could say the meaning of life is to find your own meaning of life, which I would be much more on board with, but even that lacks proof.

My whole argument has been based on the fact that there is no meaning of life, that can be proved and given to everyone. The only true meaning I could find, would be survival, which in it of itself lends it to a subjective meaning. How will you survive? Where will you survive? and so forth.

My signature is a quote from the character Lucifer (imagine that) in the movie Constantine.

 

[Ace_]

Oh yeah, and ENTJs are NOT misunderstood. If there's anything I take pride in myself it's the clarity of my communication. My thoughts are precise and unambiguous and I adjust my language to my audience. If I'm talking to an idiot I will use words he understands. If I know him for a while I'll intuitively know what he is able to understand and accomplish. I am rarely wrong about assessing other people's abilities. It's one of the strengths of the ENTJ type to see the potential in people.

 

[Jaguar]

Ho hum.

Ho hum?
That's real ENTJ communication style.

My whole argument [...]

What is your goal-- your purpose?
There is no purpose in making an "argument" unless making arguments is your purpose.
Every time I call you out on your bullshit, you start back-pedaling.
I said it once, and I will say it again:
Your opinions are not facts.
Period.

"[...] before the Big Bang [...]" is another opinion being passed off as fact.
The Big Bang is a theory; it is not a fact.

My signature is a quote from the character Lucifer (imagine that) in the movie Constantine.

What's next-- claiming people use quotes in their sig line,
with which they disagree?
Of course you agree with it.
That's why it's in your sig line.

Do something productive today: Go read a book.

 

[spx]

the right-until-proven-wrong attitude: She will put forward an idea or a viewpoint and will want to act on it immediately. I may instantly have my doubts but will often need time to crystallize my objection before I can convince her. She will accept that she needs to wait for me to do so but in the meantime she will exude an impatience that I'm sure less headstrong people than I find either too intimidating or too annoying or both for them to bother to provide their input, because the fact that she will openly and ungrudgingly acknowledge it when I turn out to be right (which is an improvement over INTJs!) is not enough to compensate for the resentment I feel at her initial impatience on account of the needless pressure it puts me under.

I've seen this with other ENTJs as well. Their steamroller approach turns people off for a variety of reasons (in my case, it's not so much the arrogance - I give as good as I get on that score - as the fact that my performance suffers when I'm put on the spot) and they therefore miss out on quality input that a more patient, self-doubting and open approach would in many cases yield
...
If you're an ENTJ and you disagree that there are many exceptions, then you're either in an understimulating environment (which you can do something about (unless you're too young, but then take this opportunity to practice patience! )) or you can be sure that your attitude is turning off the people who could provide you with quality input.

Well, I was going to suggest to Gen that perhaps this was a J/P clash with the ENTJ wanting to get down to business asap, but now I'm thinking this is just an E/I thing. I still don't understand what's wrong with the "right until proven wrong"--shouldn't all NTs understand that logical reasons are more convincing than any other approach? but I guess it goes back more to your dislike of being 'put on the spot'. Thanks, this was insightful.

 

[Economica]

Well, I was going to suggest to Gen that perhaps this was a J/P clash with the ENTJ wanting to get down to business asap, but now I'm thinking this is just an E/I thing. I still don't understand what's wrong with the "right until proven wrong"--shouldn't all NTs understand that logical reasons are more convincing than any other approach? but I guess it goes back more to your dislike of being 'put on the spot'. Thanks, this was insightful.

It's not that we take issue with your strictly logical approach. (Nor is it just an E/I thing nor even a P/J thing - I've seen ENTJs antagonize other ENTJs!) It's that you're not always perfectly right from the outset, and it behooves you to solicit the input of people who might be able to point out to you any imperfections of your initial opinion with an acknowledgment of this fact rather than to present the opinion as incontestable. Competent people, whether NT or not, appreciate deference.

Aggravating approach: "Let's do x! *starts to do x* ... Wait? Why wait? *continues to do x* ... Fine, I'm waiting! What's the problem? *cold, unsmiling stare* ... Oh. ... Let's do z instead then! *starts to do z*"

Amiable approach: "I'm thinking we should do x because of y, but I could very well be missing something and so I would appreciate your input. What do you think? ... So how does that affect the bottom line? ... I see; thanks for pointing that out. ... What if we did z instead?"

Of course, the latter democratic approach entails slowdown, so its relative effectiveness hinges on the ratio of worthwhile to worthless input from others which is why I emphasize that I am recommending its use only with those who are in fact your equals or close to it. Such discrimination in itself implicitly entails another slowdown because you have to pause to perceive and reflect long enough and often enough in order to accurately identify the people on whom to bestow the honor. But trust me, you impatient ENTJs, what you will lose in deliberation time you will more than make up for in end product efficacy.

 

[Maverick]

ENTJ's are misunderstood when they try to be understood too much.

If anyone doesn't get it, send them away and don't waste time trying to please them.

 

[violet_crown]

Lucifer--

Obviously the meaning of life is subjective.
Why not cut to the chase and state such, to begin with?
Shoot straight or get rid of the gun.

I like you, Jaguar. You talk like I think.

And, I'm not exaggerating, but, she's the most sweetest person I've ever met in my life. Everyone who has met her, can't not think of her as sweet. We always joke, "Who'd ever wanna hurt [ENTJ]?" She'd be the last person on this earth who I'd think can make an enemy.

I was actually quite shocked that she was ENTJ, I def. thought she was ENFJ...but, nope.
...
If outsiders see my friend and I interacting, they'd think I had the more dominant personality. Because I talk/joke around way more than her. She loves to laugh, in return. She's more the sounding board in a conversation between us...maybe that's the dynamics of ENTP/ENTJ? ENTJ are the 'quieter', more receptive one.

The more you know her, the more you see the silent, strong determination of the ENTJ. Like, if she needs something done, she will nicely, but, with determination approach to get that done. No ifs ands or buts. Peer pressure is like non-stick spray on her. She never drank, smoked, etc...and no matter how many chances arise, how many people say, 'oh come on, just to say you've done it once', she never will.
...
I think that adjectives used in MBTI allows people to have, from their own basket of memories, an 'image' that fit that adjective. So, 'strong, determined'...most likely have images of an unbudging control freak, when, it could very well be the sweet girl next door.

I think it's funny that you bring this up Que;us. I think one of the worst things about being ENTj and female is the fact that we have all the same urges and impulses, but even less cultural leeway to express it. Where I'm from girls don't talk back, they don't get overly interested in books and they sure the hell don't make people feel stupid. You spend your life being a freak or a bitch or both.

But there are still mountains to climb and pet projects to launch, so you work around obstacles. Even if that means yourself. You go out of your way to appear light and funny. You pretend to be interested even though youre always ten steps ahead to the person your talking to. You keep the animal out of your eyes because it frightens people when youre too much yourself, and at this point youve sorted out that its difficult to run an operation without lieutenants--unwitting or otherwise.

It's fucked up, but you learn and move forward. I read The Prince when I was 14, and I remember it bringing tears to my eyes because I realized I wasn't alone. You get your shit together, do what's necessary and keep rollin. Thats it.

Anyways. I know I got kinda . But I figured I was in sympathetic company so what the fuck.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I kinda love this thread...


btw, there is always something to be learned, even from people who do not met your intellectual standard.

 

[WoodsWoman]

A mature ENTJ is a thing of wonder. I miss him.

 

[olly_olly]

So does ENTJ & INTP use the same dominant and secondary functions in the same way?

 

[JocktheMotie]

So does ENTJ & INTP use the same dominant and secondary functions in the same way?

They flip directions. So while INTPs are TiNeSiFe, ENTJs are TeNiSeFi. Same "letter" order, just opposite orientations in terms of introverted/extraverted.

 

[olly_olly]

Ohhhh OK I should probably start reading about all the Ti Ne etc.. so i can understand things on here quickly.

 

[ControlY]

Yup

I read The Prince when I was 14, and I remember it bringing tears to my eyes because I realized I wasn't alone. You get your shit together, do what's necessary and keep rollin. Thats it.

Anyways. I know I got kinda . But I figured I was in sympathetic company so what the fuck.

Word to the mother@#$*ing streets, yo. I'm with ya.

 

[LadyJaye]

I have a motivation question : I have an ENTJ best friend who tends to lean toward dysmorphic behavior - she's obsessed with altering her body, but has been in fragile health for years. Her last surgery ( last month) was necessary to repair a wrist from a motorcycle accident, and she had heart complications from it. But now that she's repairing a little, she's talking about more elective surgeries. She's extremely willful, and I'm worried about her. I have trouble slowing her down sometimes, and was curious if any other ENTJ's had some ideas of how I might get her to stop abusing her body so much?