...Enneagram Corner

[Thalassa]

Unrivaled georgeousity my bipedalled friends...HAR HAR...​

 

[MellowMarcello]

You amazed me with such an in-depth analysis and so much insight on someone you hardly know other than some posts online. I assume you are not young?

As mentioned before Uncle Marcy is wise beyond his years between his ears...

 

[MellowMarcello]

Indeed marmalade sunrise...INDEED...

 

[Nonsensical]

I love you.

 

[MellowMarcello]

If I wasn't even know I was a 4w5, you should probably not to take my opinion about her type so seriously. Well, I cannot definitely rule out her being a Four, (I probably did not understand what could be classified as a Four anyway) but regardless what type she is, she is most probably an unhealthy type.

She had been a nightmare in my life, we never got along well. To me, she was some sort of horrible creature. She tried to compete with me all her life, constantly crossing my boundaries and always said horrible things to upset me.

If I liked a certain TV star, she would say she liked the competitor of that TV star and put down the TV star I liked. When I was getting frustrated due to a cold, she would say I must be angry because I looked ugly due to the cold. When I was holding a baby and did not want to pass it to her yet, she said, "One day you will drop you own baby onto the ground". That happened when we were both still school-aged kids.

She was super-subjective. I was never able to reason with her on anything. She would bend everything to suit her argument. If she didn't like anything, she would just constantly argue with me or just got angry and went away.

I have only seen her cried once after she grew up. That was when she was beaten by my mother due to her rebellion. She studied literature at Uni and wrote poems herself. She had a big collection of books, but it seemed to me that it was more of a collection rather than her really reading them - as I rarely saw her read any book. She liked contemporary piano music. She was always tired and slept a lot during the day. She had been hospitalised once due to major depression.

She was probably not very self-referential. Whenever she accused me of something, she always had to emphasis that brother or sister or father also thought the same.

I was introduced to Enneagram by her, she was very keen to get me to do the RHETI test and asked me for the result. I guess I now kind of know why. She thought she was the "best type" 4 and wanted to prove that I was the "worst type" 3. So she would win. She got angry when she found out my test results. She kept on convincing me how I must be a Three. Fours must like cats, Fours must be unpleasant in character, etc... Since I was not convinced, she got mad at me and even made sarcastic remarks such as "If you are a Four, maybe I am not a Four then", "If you like to be a Four, be a Four then", etc.

One thing I agree though, it is impossible for me to be the same animal as her.

Why 2 over 4?...hardly a thinker at all...not very self-referential...only saw her cry once...all in all a stronger ego and more controlling tendencies than I'd expect from a 4.

And what 4 considers themselves the "best type" 4...every four I've seen gets that sinking feeling when they realize they are a 4. It's usually the 2s and 6s that think they are 4s that say how great it is that they are 4s.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I love you.

Some natural beauty there...not bad my bipedalled friend...

 

[MellowMarcello]

Did I debate about anything? Or was it more of attention seeking?

In real life, I am more of a passive, waiting to be approached person. I actually do not debate so much. If people come to me for advice, they usually respect my opinion. Otherwise, they would not come to me in the first place.

I feel that I have a different mind set from you, not sure whether it is to do with the gender thing? I assume you are a male? Being like an eight or having gravitas do not appeal me in any way. I do not mind getting exposed for not knowing as much as I think I do. I have not been faking anything or pretending to be a know-it-all person. If someone knows more than I do, I accept it. I can learn from that. I can't know everything in the world. I probably do not have as much of a huge ego as you think I do.

Gravitas is different...it's about presence not competence.

I do think you like both the attention and being considered an expert in things you know about...especially online...where it's more your crowd of people as opposed to offline...as I would expect for a core 5.

Yes you are different from me in that I cannot relate to this intellectual VIP thing at all...that it's different enough from me is partly why it stands out to me in others. It's way too much out in front aesthetically.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I don't know. When I stop thinking and analysing, I just knew it.
I weeped when I read the Ocean-Moonshine site for Type 4 description.
It was all about me. I do not feel the same when I read the Type 5 description...

Going deep was natural to me years back. I was in a depressing state most of the time...Now I do need a lot of time to be alone to feel "normal" but now I do not go deep as frequent as before.

I guess the internal resistance not letting me find myself was that what if I find out that I am actually a commoner type which I hate?

Another thing which I am puzzled about is: can an INFJ be a Core 5?

That person who wrote that description is also a 5 with a lot of 3 in them btw. She's studied the enneagram a whole lot longer than you though.

 

[MellowMarcello]

 

[MellowMarcello]

Every time when you mentioned about this "intellectual VIP" thing, I could not help laughing. I cannot relate either. I do not know why I came across that way to you. If it did, it was probably subconscious.

There was once a software consultant got angry at me during a discussion and said I was arrogant. That was the first time I was associated with that adjective. Then later on at another discussion he yelled at me, "Don't challenge my expert knowledge!" I was only expressing my opinion, not really trying to challenge anyone.

When I think about it, power people would perceive any potential resistance as power struggle, even if it is only an innocent disagreement in opinion, they would still perceive it as being challenged in power.

Are you sure you are not projecting anything from you onto me?

You got way more 3ness in you than me that's for sure. It's not even close. I think you ascribe all these stereotypically negative 3ish qualities onto type 3 so you won't be able to relate to it...to the point where you miss the gestalt of type 3.

I think you quietly enjoy the prestige of being an intellectual VIP in your niche(s) but won't admit it. I wouldn't be surprised if you quietly enjoyed the prestige of your job...and considered yourself a virtuoso at what you do. Confession is good for the soul my bipedalled friend...

 

[Delphyne]

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do not generally trust her judgement, as it is usually too much guided by her personal motives and her emotional needs. She generally lacks the ability to be able to see things in perspective.

I didn`t want to apply that you should trust her judgment unconditionally. Though even if she doesn`t see things in perspective and is guided by her personal motives she may be able to see your blind spots. You can learn from your enemies, but you shouldn`t hand yourself over.

I can think of two reasons. I have a natural tendency to clarify things if people misunderstood something which I am involved, particularly in the case when I am the one being misunderstood. I get upset if people misread or misunderstand me, that means most of the time - as it happens a lot.

Maybe, but the more energy you put into defending yourself, the more likely it is that you`re actually avoiding to look at something within yourself. For instance, a 2w3 I met years ago explained with many words that she didn`t know why she always ended as the leader of a group. She said that it wasn`t her purpose, but despite her reservation she nearly always did get appointed. I didn`t believe her and after a little while it became obvious that she pushed herself so she could act as some kind of host. Be aware of long clarifications.

Another reason is probably because I have more One in me than Three. In my mind, being competitive, using others to achieve your own goals, cheating, deceiving, faking, arrogant, seeing success as too important, etc. These are bad, and I cannot accept that I am bad. Hence I must defend myself that I am not a bad person.

Nobody said you`re a bad person, that you`re cheating or deceiving. That`s your interpretation.

In real life, I do not get along well with the 3 Type. They seem to be obvious to type (if you trust my typing skills, haha). I actually dislike talking to them. I find them too fake, having too much hidden agenda going on behind the surface, not sincere... My partner is a 2w3 - he is also very obvious to type. Even him just having a 3 wing boosts about his achievement more than I do, and I hate it when he lies or being dishonest just to get away from the consequence.

There are some such obvious Threes, but most Threes aren`t the way you described them.

 

[demimondaine]

hello, hello

i don't care much for cross-posting, but here's a little something that i posted in a thread about confusion between 4 and 9. the enneagram is new to me, and i think i've been going about it wrong, in thinking i'm a 9. could you give me any insight? i'm happy to give you more information if you'd like it:

"i've had to examine and re-examine enneagram definitions of 4s and 9s, too. i originally typed myself as a 9, but i think i'm actually a 4. i think i was raised to believe that 4's are silly, histrionic, selfish, not to be taken seriously. i thus concealed parts of myself from my parents (self-effacing sounds pretty 9, huh). i think i've always been insecure and a bit unsure of myself. acting like a 9 won me popularity when i wanted it, but i always wanted to be admired and liked for who i was, not how comfortable i made other people. i'm still pretty hesitant, and am a listening ear and crying shoulder in my circle of friends, but this comes out of being sensitive, which both 4 and 9 are supposed to be. i suppose being a 4 still sort of carries a stigma in my mind, because of how my parents (mother, especially) made them out to be. i also wonder if i'm "good enough" or "talented enough" to be a 4, if people perceive me as different in a positive light (much of my family thinks i'm an alien). i suppose a lot of this worry about living up to personal and societal expectations is 4ish as well..

and then there are wings. haven't investigated those too heavily, yet.

whew! you didn't have to hear all that. sorry if it's a bit incoherent, but mind and fingers are operating at slightly differing speeds.."

in the past, i've been known to shut away emotions i don't want to deal with, which smacks of 9. or i'll roll around in them! i've also experienced some of the problems associated with 4s: bulimia, promiscuity, alcohol and drug overuse (though the last two are subjective..)

 

[MellowMarcello]

4s indulge their elitism while 9s frown upon it.

 

[Asterion]

hey marcello, I know it's supposed to be near impossible, misstyped myself as a 7, when I'm actually a 5 and I think I need some help. I've read a few descriptions pointing out the differences, but I still can't work it out. I found out that I sometimes use information to gain control... but it takes effort to do that, and I don't usually put in that effort. A five will look like a seven under stress right? I spend a lot of time distracting myself through thought, but I dislike thinking about things indepth. Like, I can spend a long time playing an instrument, or just reading, and I'm quite happy to do that, but I never stick with anything, and I only tend to invest time in such things when I have a goal in mind. Like, I'll go and do physics when I envision myself as a brilliant physicist, but I get bored of it quickly. When I'm out and about, I'm usually very friendly, laidback, often entertainingly so, using self depreciative sarcasm, and expressing quirky ideas. I'm also somewhere between optimism and realism. To me, It's a complete toss up between 5, 7 and 9, the tests pin me as a nine usually, closely following 5 and 7 as well. After writing that, I'm starting to think I'm definitely a 5...

 

[Lady_X]

really? sounds sevenish....but wth do i know.

meaning...i don't know enough about 5's or 9's.

 

[Asterion]

really? sounds sevenish....but wth do i know.

meaning...i don't know enough about 5's or 9's.

It's a mix between the two, the scatteredness and the boredom of a seven, then the concentration and withdraw mode of a five. Using information as a means to control and defend against a situation is definitely a five trait. A five distracts themselves from anxiety by thinking about things, mastering concepts, a 7 goes by experience. The problem is, what kind of five is not a master of anything in depth, and is laid back and stuff??? I can see all three of these motivations, but I can't distinguish which is which

 

[Lady_X]

hmmm....i also distract myself by thinking about stuff but perhaps in a different way than you're talking about.

marcello??? so...you think i'm 7w6? or what....wait...you don't know me...how do i find out? i get 7w8 when i test.