ENFP, INFP, INTP...or something

[Amaryllis]

I asked my husband, who is less easily confused and self-biased, to give me his keen penetrating INFJ insight (he doesn't know that much about MBTI, so he can't give me the answer I'm 'looking for', not that he would.) He said the best way to describe my drive/goal/functions is 'enrichment of yourself and others; curiousity, learning, conquering, constructing, to achieve your final form.'

 

[Amaryllis]

[MENTION=25964]dog[/MENTION]

Thank you! Encouragement vs. advice is an important line to draw, you are right. I find advice very insulting when I receive it, and almost never give it to others except when directly asked, and even then it makes me uncomfortable. Taking the bull of one's own life by the horns and steering it in the direction that you choose is everything; to have people telling you which way to turn is very insulting. It's as though they think their life experiences have netted a superior understanding than yours. I hardly post anything on Facebook anymore specifically because of this. It's all unsolicited advice.

Encouragement is something else entirely. I love giving encouragement (and even still I usually temper it with, "I totally understand you feeling this way, and you have every right to. You're amazing, though, and here's something positive I think about this situation!"

Re: Mysterious husband - Mysteriousness is part of his identity, something that everyone sees. I like that I can't figure him out, and from what I've read, I think that's something people generally tend to like about INFJs. I think a lot of it in our case also comes from Ni/Ne (regardless of type, my Ne is always very strong in tests.) He just 'knows' things and doesn't need to speak much unless to convey a fully formed thought, while I am trying to figure out my position THROUGH conversation, by talking aloud with lots of backtracking and rabbit trails. As a result he finds me stimulating and amusing, and I find his silent confidence reassuring and mysterious.

You're also right about the growing criticism, which was pretty much absent in my first post and then gets stronger and stronger as we go along. Maybe I initially hid that side of myself because I'm such a people-pleaser that I want to make sure YOU GUYS like me, too! Now that I'm realizing it might have caused confusion, I'm trying to clarify, and maybe overcompensating. No one knows how much I am annoyed by everyone/everything until they've spent significant time with me and become someone I am truly myself with. I tend to just give 98% of people what they want and not even bother being a smidgen genuine, except with the special few. That's something I've been trying to work on, with limited success. I think that's the duality your'e seeing in this thread - I am super silly and genuine and encouraging when I'm around my Special Few. I'm also (in my head) aloof, (in my head) judgmental, and (openly) fake and people-pleasing when I'm around anyone else. It's hard to explain both of those concurrently.

Sorry again for being such a mess, everyone. This is the first time I've asked The Hivemind for MBTI advice, as I usually try to sort things out through research and bouncing ideas off close friends (hence being a longtime lurker, never poster until now.) I feel like I'm at a crossroads of becoming healthy again and because of those two things, this feels like an Important Moment In My Life.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Thank you so much for your post!

Not a problem

It's strange to hear the ISFJ typing, and to hear that you think my life revolves around other people, when it is so at odds with how I see myself. (Grumpy, people-avoidant except my husband, focused on being the best that I can be through academic/psychological/philosophical introspection.) However, I can't really argue with your very fair evidence that I am people-focused, and many others seem to agree with ISFJ. And of course, I came here for help because I seem to have made a mess of typing myself despite years of being very interested in MBTI - which would indicate that I don't know myself very well. It should be no surprise, really, that the type many are suggesting is out of the blue for me.

This is all standard social last thinking: Hence sx/sp/so; more then it is an argument against ISFJ

I read your link all the way through. This quote helped me feel more comfortable with a people-oriented Enneagram, which I initially balked at (as you knew I would, which is why you provided compelling evidence) - "From the standpoint of the Two, it is always others who are needy and dependent, not the Two." Haha. YES! Those needy bastards.

This is what I read for 2w3, for reference. It's the longest one I could find, so I hope it's not just stereotypes, but it might be:
[Enneagram Type 2] Enneatype 2 and wings.

That is an........ unusual piece it actually lists sex worker as a career. I have no idea where that was pulled from; but it is more then a little strange.

Some of the 2w3 and 2 sounds like me; desire to be loved, desire to be admired, desire to please. I am very proud, even with some narcissistic traits, I think. Strong willed and image-conscious, for sure. Stress arrow to 8 - I absolutely chafe against being controlled and hold on to my individualism (All of the time, though, not just when stressed. Maybe I've just been stressed for 10 years.)

What does not sound like me: (From the general two description.) I hate family gatherings. I hate holidays. (From the 2w3 description.) I struggle with 'appropriate dress' and 'seductive playfulness' - I am modest to the point of awkward prudeness (even in the bedroom) and my clothing is hipstery and usually not right for the situation. I wear dresses and tights and sweaters to the beach and to picnics, when people drag me there, because I like dressing that way and being covered, damn them all for trying to make me wear a bathing suit or shorts. I haven't worn shorts or pants in like 5 years. I am one of the least sexual, least flirtatious people imaginable. My husband says that I have yet to flirt with him. It just seems like acting, to me - acting that will be judged. I much prefer awkwardness. (Very strict religious upbringing, now abandoned, might be the cause of that, possibly.) It also says under stress 2's invent imaginary needs for others...when I am under stress I hermit and don't speak to anyone, not even my husband. The last thing I want to do when stressed is deal with people. I was practically in a relationship with Professor Snape for like 3 years because I ignored everyone and did nothing but write essays on Snape and read fanfiction, and at the time it was fine with me. I also read that 2w3 jobs where they can serve others...definitely not. I've done fabric store retail and fine dining serving and I just hated them both. I work from home to stop feeling like a servant, to feel like I am doing something creative and meaningful for my own sake. Every one of the 2w3 jobs listed made me seize up with the NOPE GET ME AWAY-ness of it.

Again most of that is just part and parcel of being social last. Unfortunately my last computer with all my links died so I cant really direct you to things at the moment. If I remember correctly there was a theme of active and reactive in regards to the dominant instinct. The one you obsessive over; but that obsession isn't always about flaunting it. It can also be about hiding it. The drive is the same, the direction oppositional. And again that link is just weird.

It does seem as though the major points DO hit, the the things that I'm uncomfortable with are minor points. Definitely something to consider!

I hope I haven't based all of this on stereotypes. If I could find a book about 2w3 sx/sp specifically, I would read it immediately to have a fuller understanding and not write an ignorant post to your thoughtful response, so I apologize if that's what I've done. All I have at my disposal currently are the results of furious Googling.

Absolutely the next stage is reading up. There are no specific 2w3 books but, I’ll post a list and Amazon link of ones that are recommended tomorrow.

I am having a really hard time with the ISFJ comments, and I think I have a partial answer as to why. I believe in the wisdom of the hivemind; you can't all be seeing something that is 100% untrue, after all, so why am I so resistant to it?

I had a very strict religious upbringing (church events at least 5 days a week) that I abandoned in my early twenties. It was the main reason I moved across the country at 23 - most of my friends and family were horrified and it was too difficult to be around them. Maybe I somehow associate altruism and goodness with that religion - the last thing in the world I want to be is the stupid, simple woman who bakes cookies for the bake sale, because that's was the ideal forced down my throat growing up that I literally ran away from. I Will Not Be That. I think that's why I'm having such a difficult time with much of this thread recommending people-focused and altruistic MBTI/Enneagram types. I hate people like that; I can't stand my ESFJ mother in law. From my perspective she's a clingy, needy, meddler, who denies personal agency and tries to control me with her disgusting octopus tentacles. She forces me to spend time with her, wants to make me care about babies and family, and pushes me to adopt her personal values, just like everyone in my old church. How can I be one of those? I am almost in tears over hearing that the above poster might see ESFJ in me. All my MIL cares about is what they had for breakfast, what her friend Sandy did today, how the neighbor's dog is. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR'S DOG. IT IS MEANINGLESS. Service-oriented church workers and my mother in law are the two things I dislike most in life and being told I am closer to them than to my own vision of myself is very difficult. Maybe the religion-abandoning is part of why I am having such a negative reaction to something that everyone else seems to see quite clearly.

Welcome to typology; in reality you have very little in common with those people. Typology is about the lenses and internal machinations with which we process and judge reality. You are from a different generation, and obviously don't value what they do..... why would you have the slightest thing in common with them?

Part of what I loved about the ENFP description was the 'Inspirer' part of it, yes, but it also spoke to the 'John Denver' part of me, as my best ENTP friend and I have labeled it - the one that searches for meaning in everything, loves metaphor, sees life as a puzzle full of patterns to observe and derive insight from. Maybe I didn't emphasize that part enough. It's what I love about literature; moments of insight and personal revelation through story and philosophy. One of the ENFP lines was that they see life's complex patterns 'through a prism of emotion, compassion, mysticism.' Yaaaaaaaaass. That is me. I find revelations in song lyrics, in philosophy podcasts, in literature, in film. The moment I 'got over' my college boyfriend, or at least took the first step toward it, was while I was reading 'Frankenstein;' the monster's lack of ability to make his own choices and be given a fair chance to experience life really resonated with me. I had every opportunity - why was I choosing to be broken? I ran outside and spun around and said, 'I have my own dreams to pursue! I can do anything with my life! I am going to be okay!' It was a long road after that, still, but it was the first spark that I was going to be all right. My mom and my mother in law can't even have a conversation about those kind of things; they don't see the value in it and they literally don't understand what I'm saying when I try to talk to them about it. Neither of them read, at all. That is what I mean when I say, 'meaningless.' Maybe it's just those two; but I don't see any trace of that in the descriptions of ESFJ/ISFJ nor in the ones I know in my life.

That isn't what they're getting at with the inspirer part. Its part of the groupings they have for MBTI. EXXPs are the get things going group, catalysts. ENFPs are human orientated catalysts, but once the reaction has happened they disappear. Not to dismiss your lovely sentiment, but its not that tied to type.... well sort of to the overly sentimental nature of Si.

You guys know your MBTI much better than I do; there is obviously something you are seeing that I am not. I am trying to remind myself that 'personality' goes a long way to differentiate between 'type'. Even if I am ISFJ/ESFJ, that does not make me like my mother in law. There is more to MBTI than stereotypes. The reminders aren't quite enough, though, as you can see by this ranty, panicked little post.

Despite my crappy reactions, thank you so much for your posts. It is so helpful to have an outside, unbiased perspective on myself. It is permeating, I am attempting to accept your insights as possibilities, or I wouldn't be so upset. I will continue to research ISFJ and try to understand it more, to find some possible truth there about myself. I do want to find the best path of positive growth for myself, even if it's not what I want to hear.

Edit: Mother in law just posted a dog in an Ewok costume to my Facebook. Somehow that is the perfect cherry to this ridiculous post.

There are some decent profiles of ISFJs floating around this site, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. If you want I'll go further over this tomorrow, but basically for me its the lack of Ne. I can see Si with the linear subjective storyline, I can see the laser focused Fe, I can also see a well developed Ti......... but Ne its not messy enough, there isn't enough crashing and bashing against reality. Even at a point you consider to be unhealthy, you still manage to complete a degree (with good marks), presumably start and finish some sort of seamstress apprenticeship, and proceed to start your own business. Even on your worst day, your grasp of concrete reality exceeds that of an ENFP.

Why 2w3 over 2w1?

Having read descriptions of both E2+wings and leaning somewhat towards 2w1 for the OP, I'd love to hear your insights.

I'm a bit rusty at enneagram, and its various terms. But essentially 2w3 is a point of reinforcement. Image on image. If you read the parts about the past boyfriends and husband; the focus is about how to guide them to success, the end is far more important then the struggle. 2W1 suffers from e1s idealisation of suffering. If amaryllis was 2w1 the struggle to change those she loved would be paramount. The saint who gives all away to prove how good they are (while making damn sure everyone knows it); 2w1 original martyrs.

 

[Amaryllis]

[MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION]

What a great post, thank you again!

I found this link yesterday which I thought was fantastic, I hope a lot of it is true. It helped me clarify a lot of the functions I do not have a great understanding of, like Si and Fe. (It has a casual title, it's pretty meat-heavy information on functions, at least from my perspective.)

How To Recognize Each Myers-Briggs Personality Type In Real Life | Thought Catalog

One of the things it mentions -and that you mentioned, which is why I bring it up - is that an unhealthy Fe user will be focused on criticizing people and having anger towards people; they're still using that function, it's just in a negative way. If that's true, I could certainly see myself as an unhealthy Fe user; and I have long thought anger towards the general population must be some sort of unhealthy behavior I need to work on.

I suppose it makes sense that I would be different from my ESFJ mother in law because she's E and a different generation...but..ack.

Even if I concede possible Fe, though, the Si in my link does not resonate with me at all, though maybe it's a misleading description. I have a terrible memory, I struggle with remembering or even caring about details of any sort - unless it's what I'm obsessing over at the time, currently board games (always board games) and this thread. If it's very important, I'll write it down somewhere, because it will be out of my brain the second I stop thinking about it. What 'tradition' does Si place emphasis on, if not, you know, traditional traditions of past generations, ie my mother in law? Personal traditions of some sort? I'm not sure I really have any of those. And I also avoid the tried and true method in pretty much everything. I sweep by picking dust off of the ground and never butter tortillas because they brown just fine without it. I am really annoyed by things that are done for conventional wisdom's sake and will insist on doing it the easiest way until I'm proven wrong. Sometimes I'm right - I much prefer sewing in zippers by hand and leaving no visible stitching to doing them "properly" on the machine - but often I'm wrong. I even ruined a car engine once, like it had to be replaced, because I was convinced that the recommended amount of oil changes was greatly exaggerated. So dumb.

I am surprised you don't see Ne from me; I could accept that it's not my lead function, but having it as a strong function was one of the few MBTI things I was actually sure about. My ENTP friend and I constantly discuss, "Do you think I idolized Treize/Snape because I'm actually ENFP and they fixate on INFJ/INTJ? Was the caged butterfly repressed intelligence, artistic sentiment, or childlike wonder? Do we still have it? Am I Dimmesdale-ing over Rachael? Does Jason feed your John Denver side enough?" which I believe are Ne-type discussions, and those discussions are one of the most satisfying and important aspects of my life. (Bonus points if we're drunk.) And he's the only one I've been able to have them with; nobody else 'speaks our language' or understands the 15 years of metaphor and secret passwords that make up our world. Maybe I appreciate HIS Ne, but don't have it myself? Maybe it's not Ne at all? I know nothing, Jon Snow.

As for sewing, if it matters, it was actually my hobby for a long time that became my career by accident; I have no formal training. I was doing Comic-Con and Dragon*con back in 2001 (before it was cool! Damn kids, ruining my hobby.) My group became somewhat famous and won a lot of competitions and I had people constantly e-mailing me asking me to make this dress and that dress for them. I said no all through college, until I found myself graduating in 2008 into a shit economy with a useless English degree, no money, and no plan. I waited tables at a fine dining restaurant and hated the world for a few years until I decided to start saying yes to some of those e-mails. It was a supplement for a while but now it's my full time job. I've been booked out six months ahead for years, making Hermione and Daenerys dresses. So, it certainly wasn't a plan that I created and executed. I fell into it by accident.

I made pretty bad career choices. I considered going to fashion design school in high school, applied with my costume portfolio, received a FULL RIDE SCHOLARSHIP to FIDM and then I didn't go because I thought it was unlikely to lead to a career (and because I thought I would have to stay in California for a costuming career, and I knew I wanted to leave.) So I went to school for English instead...as though that would lead to some sort of actual career. Oops. I wouldn't trade the experience or the things I learned for anything, though, so I'm still glad I did. I graduated so much wiser and stronger than I entered. I believe in the power of transformative insight and change from literature and philosophy; which is one of the most important things in my life, now. Feeding that for 4 years in college was spectacular. I actually went to graduate school as well (for English) and dropped out after two weeks because to me the program was cold and insight-destroying. We had to write a paper on Scarlet Letter every week from a different critical perspective. Interesting in theory, but that is one of my top 5 favorite books and it would have utterly destroyed it for me. Unacceptable.

I feel like I have already learned so much from this thread. I hope I don't seem like I'm digging my heels and arguing for my own conclusion while asking for advice (my husband says I do that all of the time, and it drives him nuts, though think that's his Ni resisting my verbal idea-bouncing approach to thought.) An outside perspective from MBTI sages was definitely something I was lacking and this whole experience is thrilling and extremely helpful.

 

[dog]

amaryllis, my last post I accidently posted before reading your previous post (9/10 9:23am)- as if it matters, everything I write is sorta random anyway ...so as I was catching up I noticed - out of the 25,000 characters m/l (not including spaces) that you wrote so far in this thread - that you locked your caps for only one sentence : "I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR'S DOG. IT IS MEANINGLESS."....perhaps your view of "meaningless" is a clue to your personality as well idk. It has been a driving force in MY life for 30 years now and I just had a resurgent study of that word (in Hebrew and greek) just this week....my point being, if I'm INFP (with a Ti undertow) and IF you feel sorta like I do about this "meaningless" thing, then maybe we have a lot in common. except your T is stronger than my F and your S (as much as you hate to admit it lol) is stronger than my N. speaking of S, which is so funny especially when you talked about being prudish (I was gonna tell you that, but I felt that to be a bit personal lol) That is sooo my isfj separated-wife (who was extremely dedicated and sincere for the entire 25 years of our marriage). conversely, SJs can be very NON-prudish BEFORE they get the big "catch". But then kids come, and sex becomes a mere pragmatic duty (still good and proper though) like making dinner. just no romance. . ....

 

[dog]

obviously the basic mbti functions are just designed to get you into the ballpark. . now everyone is giving you all sorts of more specifics (stuff that is way over my head right now. like Dr Mobius.) so now its up to YOU to take that stuff and apply it. for eg, though i call myself infp i know my Ti makes me sound really arrogant- something my wife absolutely HATES. so now i know my arrogance is just a natural thing that i have to work on

 

[Dr Mobius]

[MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION]

What a great post, thank you again!

I found this link yesterday which I thought was fantastic, I hope a lot of it is true. It helped me clarify a lot of the functions I do not have a great understanding of, like Si and Fe. (It has a casual title, it's pretty meat-heavy information on functions, at least from my perspective.)

How To Recognize Each Myers-Briggs Personality Type In Real Life | Thought Catalog

One of the things it mentions -and that you mentioned, which is why I bring it up - is that an unhealthy Fe user will be focused on criticizing people and having anger towards people; they're still using that function, it's just in a negative way. If that's true, I could certainly see myself as an unhealthy Fe user; and I have long thought anger towards the general population must be some sort of unhealthy behavior I need to work on.

Its not a bad resource at all; looks to be standard MBTI fair. I was going to make a longer post; but I found the profiles I was looking for. The writer will do a far better job of explaining then me. But succinctly Si is an over emphasis on subjective impression. The tortillas wasn't a bad example of it. As for the lack of Ne I should be more specific, its the lack of fluid Ne. If it was your dominant, or auxiliary it would be everywhere. Your example of Ne is more forced/focused, more situational. You use it but a lid is kept over it.

The sewing story is an awesome story.

Your reaction to dissecting A Scarlet Letter is a somewhat indicative of Si. Valuing subjective impression over critical analysis.

I feel like I have already learned so much from this thread. I hope I don't seem like I'm digging my heels and arguing for my own conclusion while asking for advice (my husband says I do that all of the time, and it drives him nuts, though think that's his Ni resisting my verbal idea-bouncing approach to thought.) An outside perspective from MBTI sages was definitely something I was lacking and this whole experience is thrilling and extremely helpful.

No its a good instinct; typology is a bridge towards self analysis. Keep questioning.

ISFJ Profile
ESFJ Profile

 

[dog]

I saw that writer too (in thought catalog)- Heidi priebe i think. she's good. I saw one of hers on "getting out of ruts"....really helped me understand the emotional side of my type.

 

[Amaryllis]

Those articles are absolutely outstanding; thank you for taking the time to link them to me. I am looking up pretty much everything SimulatedWorld has written, now.

I feel as though I understand Si a bit better, but I still feel very resistant to it. Aristotle talks about 'pig pleasures' as contrasted with eudaimonia (pleasure derived from virtuous activity such as hard work and reason; accomplishing greater, more lasting satisfaction through self-discipline.) Much of the comfort/routine aspects of Si sound like pig pleasures, to me. Some of Si offends my logical sensibilities, too - past experience is not a reliable source of information to be guided by. It's a sample size of one! Plus, memory is fallible (especially my shit memory), correlation does not equal causation, what worked one time or didn't work one time might not work this time for hundreds of reasons...etc. I don't -like- most I am reading about Si. I don't feel as though I would value myself if that were truly my dominant function - does that happen? Maybe it does.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Those articles are absolutely outstanding; thank you for taking the time to link them to me. I am looking up pretty much everything SimulatedWorld has written, now.

I feel as though I understand Si a bit better, but I still feel very resistant to it. Aristotle talks about 'pig pleasures' as contrasted with eudaimonia (pleasure derived from virtuous activity such as hard work and reason; accomplishing greater, more lasting satisfaction through self-discipline.) Much of the comfort/routine aspects of Si sound like pig pleasures, to me. Some of Si offends my logical sensibilities, too - past experience is not a reliable source of information to be guided by. It's a sample size of one! Plus, memory is fallible (especially my shit memory), correlation does not equal causation, what worked one time or didn't work one time might not work this time for hundreds of reasons...etc. I don't -like- most I am reading about Si. I don't feel as though I would value myself if that were truly my dominant function - does that happen? Maybe it does.

I actually agree with your point on Si, it seems so often described at its smallest. Never where it could lead to with long term goal in mind. But I do remember reading a description once about it being a function of singular focus, a sort of specialist function. I'll see if I can dig it up for you.

 

[Amaryllis]

Do you think it's possible that some of the Si traits you are seeing could be Fi? Reading through SimulatedWorld's profiles, INFP was actually the one that resonated most with me (for the first time ever.) I usually hear Fi in terms of 'Good vs Evil' which does not resonate with me at all - but this also included 'Meaningful and Not Meaningful,' 'Sacred and Not Sacred.' That is a bullseye. There was nothing in the profile that struck me as ill-fitting. http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...gnitive-function-analysis-simulatedworld.html

Fi as my dominant would make lots of sense...it would explain why, even though I feel like I'm super logical, people use 'Courtney-logic' to describe my way of thinking, rolling their eyes. It would explain my strong feelings about things (NOT SJ!!!11oneoneone lol.) I asked my husband, "Do I have totally random, subjective beliefs that I justify in ever-changing, sometimes rational and sometimes irrational ways?" He smirked and said, "Um, I think you're on to something, because YES, so much YES."

The biggest problem with INFP would be no Fe, because everyone in this thread is seeing strong Fe. However, my test scores are always in the toilet for it, and I personally don't see it manifesting in healthy ways in my life, only unhealthy, judgey resentful ways. I have no problem with abandoning our Fe theory, but it's difficult to reconcile everyone in this thread seeing it, if indeed I'm INFP and it is not one of my functions. That's a wrench.

I could see Te instead of Ti, as well, especially when I was younger. To use a (Si, damn it, though INFP still has Si) example ,when I was young my friends and I all had superhero names for each other, and mine was The Flying Nun, because I was always trying to organize/judge/control everyone's lives for them. I booked all of our convention hotel rooms, bought all of the movie premiere tickets, etc, total Te. I even sat down my best friend and scolded her with Bible verse citations about everything she was doing wrong with her boyfriends. (God, what a terrible friend. Hot shame.) I am so ashamed of my past, religious-self behavior and have tried to run away from it and rebuild myself into something different, but I was definitely the The Flying Nun in my friend group because I Believed in My Religious Values (Fi) and tried to enforce them upon everyone else (Te.)

Maybe without religion, I had lost my biggest belief, and tried to compensate for my confused, broken Fi by developing Ti (since I was at university at the time, it was everywhere and easy to latch on to.) I have been trying to cling to Ti as my dominant ever since then, but as I wrote in the first post, I just don't think it's right. Fi-dominant traumatized by leaving religion would explain pretty much everything and it sits really well with me.

It would be hilarious if, after all of this consternation, the one that I always test as on the cognitive function test (INFP) is actually the right one.

 

[chubber]

Do you think it's possible that some of the Si traits you are seeing could be Fi? Reading through SimulatedWorld's profiles, INFP was actually the one that resonated most with me (for the first time ever.) I usually hear Fi in terms of 'Good vs Evil' which does not resonate with me at all - but this also included 'Meaningful and Not Meaningful,' 'Sacred and Not Sacred.' That is a bullseye. There was nothing in the profile that struck me as ill-fitting. http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...gnitive-function-analysis-simulatedworld.html

Fi as my dominant would make lots of sense...it would explain why, even though I feel like I'm super logical, people use 'Courtney-logic' to describe my way of thinking, rolling their eyes. It would explain my strong feelings about things (NOT SJ!!!11oneoneone lol.) I asked my husband, "Do I have totally random, subjective beliefs that I justify in ever-changing, sometimes rational and sometimes irrational ways?" He smirked and said, "Um, I think you're on to something, because YES, so much YES."

The biggest problem with INFP would be no Fe, because everyone in this thread is seeing strong Fe. However, my test scores are always in the toilet for it, and I personally don't see it manifesting in healthy ways in my life, only unhealthy, judgey resentful ways. I have no problem with abandoning our Fe theory, but it's difficult to reconcile everyone in this thread seeing it, if indeed I'm INFP and it is not one of my functions. That's a wrench.

I could see Te instead of Ti, as well, especially when I was younger. To use a (Si, damn it, though INFP still has Si) example ,when I was young my friends and I all had superhero names for each other, and mine was The Flying Nun, because I was always trying to organize/judge/control everyone's lives for them. I booked all of our convention hotel rooms, bought all of the movie premiere tickets, etc, total Te. I even sat down my best friend and scolded her with Bible verse citations about everything she was doing wrong with her boyfriends. (God, what a terrible friend. Hot shame.) I am so ashamed of my past, religious-self behavior and have tried to run away from it and rebuild myself into something different, but I was definitely the The Flying Nun in my friend group because I Believed in My Religious Values (Fi) and tried to enforce them upon everyone else (Te.)

Maybe without religion, I had lost my biggest belief, and tried to compensate for my confused, broken Fi by developing Ti (since I was at university at the time, it was everywhere and easy to latch on to.) I have been trying to cling to Ti as my dominant ever since then, but as I wrote in the first post, I just don't think it's right. Fi-dominant traumatized by leaving religion would explain pretty much everything and it sits really well with me.

It would be hilarious if, after all of this consternation, the one that I always test as on the cognitive function test (INFP) is actually the right one.

Do you relate to inferior Te?

edit: Recognizing the Inferior Function in IxFPs

 

[Dr Mobius]

[MENTION=26060]Amaryllis[/MENTION] The issue is again the lack of Ne....... but perhaps I'm simply missing something. So I'll mention a couple of NFPs, who will have a clearer view of this then me. [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] are both established well versed members who might care to weigh in? I'd mention a INFP, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

 

[Amaryllis]

Do you relate to inferior Te?

edit: Recognizing the Inferior Function in IxFPs

Yes.

I actually quit two jobs in the 'heat of the moment', where usually quick actions like that are not like me at all. In both instances I felt my stupid managers were not insulting me by 'correcting' something that was not NOT WRONG, and I wrote long angry letters on my break and quit. In one instance I had managed the fabric layout change at Jo-Ann fabrics for 4 years, and the new manager thought she knew better and re-did all of my work on an unscheduled overnight. She had to double-stack a bunch of it and leave a bunch of empty shelves in other places (mine that she destroyed was a glorious evenly shelved marvel of skill and mathematics) and I NOPED out of there. The second time was at another Jo-Anns in another state, and I was a manager at that point, joking with an employee about putting the fabric in the wrong place (totally joking, finger snaps and head rolling. I think I even laughed.) She told our head manager that I "backed her into a corner, waved my finger in her face, and threatened her.' I was again so angry at ridiculously unfair insult that I was filled with rage and immediately quit. I was not going to stand there and apologize to someone so dumb.

"Introverted Feeling types in this state may complain loudly about others’ gross ineptitude. ISFPs and INFPs seem to turn into the very opposite of their accepting, nonjudgmental, and flexible selves, coming across as harsh critics and judges whose standards of competence are too extreme to be met."

Sadly, I have spent quite a bit of time in this thread demonstrating this. It is not toward coworkers or friends because the only people I encounter in my life are my husband and his family, and since I like my husband it comes out at his family.

My poor ESFJ mother in law bears the brunt of most of my 'don't criticize me' outbursts, usually when she's trying to 'help.' "Here, do you have a spoon for that?" "Why don't I get you a chair from over here?" "You should package that up in saran wrap so it doesn't melt." "Put a paper towel over it so it doesn't explode in the oven." After about 50 of these, my teeth gritting harder and harder at each one, I sometimes end up yelling "IF I WANT A CHAIR I WILL GET ONE!!!" or something along those lines. I did that once on Christmas fucking morning and still feel terrible about it. To me it is insulting to offer 'help' constantly, as if I don't know anything, or am incapable of doing anything myself. I think I mentioned this tendency to bite at people who offer too much unsolicited advice (ie, criticism) earlier in this thread.

It also comes out in Warcraft, I believe, since I spend a lot of time doing that. I will ragequit groups if they try to correct me, and I will throw myself on the bed and cry for an hour if I get kicked out of a raid. This behavior has always mystified me - they're strangers, why do I care? Maybe it's simply the fact that I can't stand being criticized or accused of being incompetent. I put so much time into Warcraft and becoming a good raider; to get kicked out is 'proof' that it has all been wasted and I am terrible and it just hurts so much. I replay the actions I took and the critical words of the group over and over again, watch boss videos, fixating on the perceived mistake until I can figure out what happened and how to stop it from happening again.

Inferior Te could also be what helped me cope after my break-up when I had my total meltdown in college. I threw myself into writing essays, studying philosophy, studying law and logical argument. I always thought it was Ti but maybe it was Inferior Te coming out in rage and protection. Now that I am healthy, I hardly have the patience for any of that stuff and have felt guilty about it.

How said that my glorious Ti I was so proud of might actually be Inferior Te. What a mess I am (or might be.) At least I can forgive myself for not having the patience for details that I had in college, and not feel so bad about getting bored with philosophy podcasts. Maybe I can look at the lack of those things in my life and say, 'It's because I am getting healthier' instead of feeling guilty for my disinterest.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, even if I'm yet again on the wrong path. This still feels really, really right to me.

And a PS to clarify that 90% of the time I am very relaxed, calm, busy in my little sewing world and playing vidya games and admiring my husband. The actions described here are definitely the exception and not the rule.

 

[Amaryllis]

[MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION]

As far as Ne, maybe it's something that doesn't come across well on a post on a singular topic? It has always been my highest test result and something that resonated with me when I read descriptions as well.

I love talking about ideas and get bored when things turn to non-idea topics, like people or scheduling or "How Was Your Day" (vomit) etc.

I have way more ideas than I could ever possible execute; I am always coming up with some new thing I want to do. Video game vlog, board game vlog, star trek vlog, a book in the style of Livejournal, a book about Shakespere's characters all living in a world together after death, an app that give Girl Scout type badges for adulting/adventuring life achievements (my best idea ever, too bad I don't have the resources to do it), churning out terribad romance novels on Amazon for money (my ENTP friend and I actually wrote 3/4 of one, the furthest we've ever gotten on one of our schemes), doing a fashion line for my state's Fashion Week (I ACTUALLY DID THIS; I consider myself the healthiest I ever was when I pulled this off in 2011, after I met my husband but before our wedding and financial woes. Of course I didn't follow through with retailers or marketing and nothing happened), starting a vlog about costume conventions, doing real estate (Did this for a years, got my license, only focused on million dollar homes because the rest was a 'waste of time', never went to the office, just did marketing from home between sewing commissions. Had two million dollar listings, then quit because my husband lost his job in 2013 and we needed steady income, and l hated it anyway), reselling clothes and antiques from thrift stores on Ebay because I have an eye for high price clothes because of my sewing background, teaching Harry Potter classes as characters on Youtube in costume, starting a website solvingsnape.com dedicated to researching Snape and figuring out if he was good or bad (never did the website, but I did figure out Lily + Snape as my thesis before Deathly Hallows and I have the Livejournal entry with friend comments telling me I was crazy to prove it), making a Minecraft blog because we knew it was going to be big, investing in Netflix during the Quikster debacle (we decided to buy a house instead, still regret it)...etc. That's just what I could think of off of the top of my head without looking at my lists laying around everywhere.

This is why I love my ENTP; he can bounce these ideas back and forth with me into a beautiful frenzy of excited YES WE ARE AMAZING...and then we never do anything. Somehow the idea is usually enough and was satisfying of its own accord. My INFJ husband gets annoyed when I talk like this because I, "never follow through on anything I talk about." Hmph.

Is that Ne? I think that's Ne? I'm not sure though.

Most of my ideas are focused on residual money-making, as one of my primary goals in life is to make enough money or have enough residual income to pursue my own interests (travel, sewing ideas, entrepreneur things) without having to be a servant to someone else. Like most people, I think.

Sometimes I think the reason I ended up with sewing as my job is because the e-mails keep coming unbidden to my inbox, while most other things require diligence/discipline to make money. With sewing I can say yes when I'm feeling okay or needing money, or no when I'm stressed or lazy, and all I have to do is something I enjoy by a deadline. If sewing required continual marketing, I doubt I'd still be doing it.

 

[Dr Mobius]

[MENTION=26060]Amaryllis[/MENTION] sorry about not replying to you. Life has been creeping up on me. I'll get back to you tomorrow with a proper response.

 

[Dr Mobius]

[MENTION=26060]Amaryllis[/MENTION] yeah this is all absolutely Ne valuing, but its too pointed, too pragmatic. INFPs are distanced from reality its difficult for them to deal with. If you wander around typology forums enough you'll start to see a common thread of screwing up, or not dealing well with basic life issues. You may have lacked follow through, but the ideas are realistic options for solving real world problems. INFPs don't often deal with reality with the proficiency, and confidence that you have. I still see a well read, intelligent ISFJ 2w3 sx/sp/so.