[ENFJ] ENFJs: specific differences btwn your "friendly" flirting and "actual" flirting

[Esoteric Wench]

I will be more obvious with my flirting in an actual scenario, almost demanding a reaction. If the reaction is something preferable, I can get coy and very ":blushing: Aw shucks" about it.

That's interesting. I think I understand what your getting at. If I'm really interested in someone, I tend to be a bit of a provocateur... all in a very friendly, funny kind of way. I want to see what they'll do if I push the envelope a little bit. You can learn a lot about a person from that kind of thing. Of course, there have been those moments that I've completely freaked out between my "demanding a reaction" kind of behavior and their impending reaction. This is the point when I'm thinking about how I might have blown it and get stuck in an Ne/Fi loop.

Ugh! Did I mention already how I become socially impaired around any guy I flag as a potential soul mate? I've only flagged a guy a handful of times in my entire life, but each time I have multiple cascading mental meltdowns. It's a miracle that I've ever dated anyone ever.

Back to the "demanding a reaction" kind of behavior thing. I figure that if my occasionally-pushing-the-envelope-socially ENFP style is going to drive 'em nuts, it's best to find that out upfront.

 

[AutumnReverie]

I'm a very aggressive flirt when I'm actually interested.
If I am friendly flirting with someone and they flirt back in a way that oversteps the boundaries, I get very " Hey now." I'm sure it comes across as being playful and nudgy, but there's no real warmth or coyness behind it.
You may be curious how one is aggressive and coy . I will be more obvious with my flirting in an actual scenario, almost demanding a reaction. If the reaction is something preferrable, I can get coy and very ":blushing: Aw shucks" about it.

I do what Afkan does, by way of person-specific comments.
I also make a lot of eye contact, smile far too much, can't get enough of the person I'm interested in, and become very touchy.

Touch does play a big part and can be a dead give away for my interest in someone. It's something to really take into account. I can appear to be flirting very hard with someone, but if I don't touch them beyond playful nudges to get their attention, then it's likely that I'm not actually interested.

Wow, if this is true, than I'm definitely feeling a little more optimistic about how he feels towards me ...because he's definitely being a very aggressive flirt yet also somehow shy as well. Also he does a lot of the touchy, eye contact, hanging around me stuff as well. If you have any time, would you mind reading the specifics of our interactions together and giving me your input? I'd love to hear how you would interpret some of his interactions towards me. I understand if you don't want to though, it's a little TL;DR

One thing I'm confused about is that I'm always the one to initiate our texting conversations. However, once I do, he keeps it going for a long time (even when I send him a possible conversation ending text -- something that doesn't require a response like "yeah" "ok" "of course" or no response at all-- he'll keep on texting/flirting with me). If he likes texting me so much than why doesn't he ever text me first? I figure if he was interested enough, he'd be the one randomly starting texting conversations with me. He's such a huge flirt so I'm not sure why he'd be shy or hesitant.

Any insight, ENFJs? This probably means he's not that interested in me yet or something (which is fine because we've just met, ~we've got time)...but I'm just curious.

ETA: I've just realized that my question probably sounds really stupid...but I admit, I'm a little socially retarded. The other thread, "Common Terms Decoded" is actually blowing my mind right now ...makes me realize how much subtext I've missed in the past

 

[Lily flower]

One thing I'm confused about is that I'm always the one to initiate our texting conversations. However, once I do, he keeps it going for a long time (even when I send him a possible conversation ending text -- something that doesn't require a response like "yeah" "ok" "of course" or no response at all-- he'll keep on texting/flirting with me). If he likes texting me so much than why doesn't he ever text me first? I figure if he was interested enough, he'd be the one randomly starting texting conversations with me. He's such a huge flirt so I'm not sure why he'd be shy or hesitant.

My experience with ENFJ's is that they are very good in person, but not so good on paper. I don't know if that's true for all ENFJ's, but the ones I know prefer to present their charm in person because that is where their talents lie. To them, email, texting, etc. is more like paperwork and therefore an inferior way to interact with other people.

I think his comments are very suggestive and you definitely have a good chance. Next time he says he owes you something, suggest he repay you by taking you out to lunch.

 

[tortoise]

I'm OK when it comes to friendly flirting -- the kind where everyone knows you're not being serious and the woman's happily married but there's just that kind of bantery, teasy kind of thing going on that's not actually ever going to go anywhere.

I'm not so good at flirting for real though ... social anxiety ups a notch!

 

[Unkindloving]

If you have any time, would you mind reading the specifics of our interactions together and giving me your input?

I would say he's interested in you in at least some degree! Well.. going by how I work. You can be blunt with him at any point and ask if he likes you. ENFJs like to be read into by those we generally enjoy and being called out can be fun for us.
The only part I would consider is his degree of interest, which you mentioned. To me, it sounds like it's heading in the direction of more than a fling. Then again, ENFJs tend to be charmers either way. This is where asking him after a bit would be good. Course, it would be good to ask in any case like this, regardless of type.

One thing I'm confused about is that I'm always the one to initiate our texting conversations. However, once I do, he keeps it going for a long time (even when I send him a possible conversation ending text -- something that doesn't require a response like "yeah" "ok" "of course" or no response at all-- he'll keep on texting/flirting with me). If he likes texting me so much than why doesn't he ever text me first? I figure if he was interested enough, he'd be the one randomly starting texting conversations with me. He's such a huge flirt so I'm not sure why he'd be shy or hesitant.

Hmm. I've found that I have unwritten rules at times. I'll be an aggressive flirt in one place, but will hold back in another. It's as if the other place is where I find out what degree of effort the other person makes to approach me. It's very telling. The same goes for how he approaches you at work. How frequently is that divvied up between you two?

It could also be what Valerie said, possibly a combination of the two.

 

[AutumnReverie]

Thanks for the input guys! I was a little concerned that it was heading into "fling" territory too :/ so I think I've decided to just back off this one for a bit. I'll still be friendly with him at work or whatever, but if he wants to text me or hang out with me during non-work-hours then I'll let him take that initiative. Or, like you all suggested, I'll just suggest that he can make up what he "owe's" to me by taking me to lunch. Or, during work, I'll jokingly ask if he likes me (although, I'm not sure how well that would work out...since he may say "yes" in a sarcastic or his classic flirty-manner).

We're just friends right now and I'm fine with that -- if something develops, then it'll develop

The ENFJ flirting is still confusing though

 

[Arclight]

Thanks for the input guys! I was a little concerned that it was heading into "fling" territory too :/ so I think I've decided to just back off this one for a bit. I'll still be friendly with him at work or whatever, but if he wants to text me or hang out with me during non-work-hours then I'll let him take that initiative. Or, like you all suggested, I'll just suggest that he can make up what he "owe's" to me by taking me to lunch. Or, during work, I'll jokingly ask if he likes me (although, I'm not sure how well that would work out...since he may say "yes" in a sarcastic or his classic flirty-manner).

We're just friends right now and I'm fine with that -- if something develops, then it'll develop

The ENFJ flirting is still confusing though

I can't speak for anyone else here..

But me personally from what you described.. You at least have his attention.

If he is anything like me, no matter how much people tell me I am handsome,charming,sexy,captivating ,entertaining etc etc.. I am not always sure people like me.
I am very unassuming that way.. and that includes romantic partners.. Normally I am waiting for them to jump me.. because really that is what is going it home that I am not imaging the signals.

At that stage if the jump hasn't happened. I would totally appreciate if someone would want to discuss things so we could be clear and on the same page.. Then If we were I would jump you

 

[AutumnReverie]

I don't know, I think I've been coming on too strongly by asking him to hang out (first with the quick dessert thing a couple days ago and now today asking if he was doing anything later). I've probably ruined it and now he thinks I'm a creeper / I'll probably end up ignoring him at work tomorrow out of embarrassment for being so transparent (he must know that I like him by now).

I can't speak for anyone else here..

But me personally from what you described.. You at least have his attention.

If he is anything like me, no matter how much people tell me I am handsome,charming,sexy,captivating ,entertaining etc etc.. I am not always sure people like me.
I am very unassuming that way.. and that includes romantic partners.. Normally I am waiting for them to jump me.. because really that is what is going it home that I am not imaging the signals.

At that stage if the jump hasn't happened. I would totally appreciate if someone would want to discuss things so we could be clear and on the same page.. Then If we were I would jump you

Thanks for the input! It feels good to know that it, at least, seems like he has some interest in me. Hopefully it will continue to be that way. And if it continues that way for a long while then, by all means, I'll help along the "jump"

Hmm. I've found that I have unwritten rules at times. I'll be an aggressive flirt in one place, but will hold back in another. It's as if the other place is where I find out what degree of effort the other person makes to approach me. It's very telling. The same goes for how he approaches you at work. How frequently is that divvied up between you two?

I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding the question. Are you asking how often he's an aggressive flirt at work and how often he does is via text? I'm tired right now, so maybe I'm just not processing the question correctly .

 

[Unkindloving]

I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding the question. Are you asking how often he's an aggressive flirt at work and how often he does is via text? I'm tired right now, so maybe I'm just not processing the question correctly .

Asking how frequently he initiates contact at work vs how frequently you do? If he is always the one to initiate contact at work, it could put things into perspective regarding the texting.
He also may feel that, since he is on you at work, you texting him first is like giving the "Go Ahead" that you're free to chitchat. Aggressive flirts can get concerned about being overbearing... and aggressive ENFJs can get concerned about impeding upon you with themselves . We're kinda bad at not taking the other person into account more than ourselves.

 

[AutumnReverie]

Asking how frequently he initiates contact at work vs how frequently you do? If he is always the one to initiate contact at work, it could put things into perspective regarding the texting.
He also may feel that, since he is on you at work, you texting him first is like giving the "Go Ahead" that you're free to chitchat. Aggressive flirts can get concerned about being overbearing... and aggressive ENFJs can get concerned about impeding upon you with themselves . We're kinda bad at not taking the other person into account more than ourselves.

Oh, thank you for clarifying! Yes, he's the one who usually always initiates contact at work. And then I'm the one who always initiates contact via text.

The only thing that confuses me about that is: why should he be concerned about being overbearing or impeding himself upon me, when it should be obvious to him that I like him? I mean, I don't think I've been necessarily subtle

Could it possibly be something Arclight mentioned about ENFJs not being entirely confident about the fact someone likes them? I always thought NFs could "feel" or "sense" these things

 

[Arclight]

Oh, thank you for clarifying! Yes, he's the one who usually always initiates contact at work. And then I'm the one who always initiates contact via text.

The only thing that confuses me about that is: why should he be concerned about being overbearing or impeding himself upon me, when it should be obvious to him that I like him? I mean, I don't think I've been necessarily subtle

Could it possibly be something Arclight mentioned about ENFJs not being entirely confident about the fact someone likes them? I always thought NFs could "feel" or "sense" these things

Only in everyone else.. In my case, I have a hard time seeing the feelings coming my way.. enough so, I am in counseling about it.

 

[Afkan]

That's interesting. I think I understand what your getting at. If I'm really interested in someone, I tend to be a bit of a provocateur... all in a very friendly, funny kind of way. I want to see what they'll do if I push the envelope a little bit. You can learn a lot about a person from that kind of thing. Of course, there have been those moments that I've completely freaked out between my "demanding a reaction" kind of behavior and their impending reaction.

Yes. This is pretty much a requirement in deeming whether I am flirting or not. Victims tend to describe it as though they feel on an intense psychological ropes course for lack of a better term. The more aggressive I am with my "assessment" the more interested I have been...Which means that some submission is required. I want to be able to project how an individual will react in as much of a variety of situations as possible.

Ugh! Did I mention already how I become socially impaired around any guy I flag as a potential soul mate? I've only flagged a guy a handful of times in my entire life, but each time I have multiple cascading mental meltdowns. It's a miracle that I've ever dated anyone ever.

Fyi everyone, (other enfjs plz share your reactions to the following) I don't think I've *ever* become socially impaired around a guy I've flagged as potential. I can be perceived as shy, but that's usually bc I am watching, waiting & observing. If I am really interested after I've gathered in depth data ... I "pounce" or go in for the kill so to speak. Basically you just have to wait for me to "work" you until I'm satisfied and until I decide what I plan on.

Oooh... Autumn I looove specifics and so am going to take a look @ urs on ur blog.

One thing I'm confused about is that I'm always the one to initiate our texting conversations.

Don't *ever* be worried that an enfj is allowing you to initiate. Its not a bad thing, and more often than not can be the enfj's own initiation of some kind of a "test". The important info lies in whether the enfj reciprocates. (ignoring or indifference=not affirming of feelings. Intensity, seemingly negative or positive... is good)

he'll jokingly suggest something be "our song", or joke about our future "wedding", etc. Or if I playfully get mad at him for something, he'll talk about how he'll make it up to me and continues to bring it up that he "owe's" me something good.

interesting... but be careful w/ ur heart Sounds like he is certainly interested in you but may be still in the assessment/ testing phase. How about some Guy ENFJs give us input on this one? I just think that if I did this is *should* be after commitments have been made to not give the guy the wrong idea. But for guys everythings different (har har) and he could possibly have the one intention of pulling you in closer w/ that wedding/song joking crap. As in he may not have really thought it all through and is testing your reaction to see how interested and in what way you are in him.

how do you, ENFJs, use touching when interacting or flirting with other people?

Pretty sure for us enfjs we feel fairly regularly as though we have a natural supply of the illicit drug Ecstasy being released in our brains. So again take it w/ a grain of salt. I as a chick enfj tend to refrain from any, all, or most touching bc it feels and means way too intense for common, everyday interactions. However, for a male enfj... I the same phenomena translates into the opposite effect, ie overly touchy.
Male enfjs, feel free to interject.

 

[Unkindloving]

Oh, thank you for clarifying! Yes, he's the one who usually always initiates contact at work. And then I'm the one who always initiates contact via text.

The only thing that confuses me about that is: why should he be concerned about being overbearing or impeding himself upon me, when it should be obvious to him that I like him? I mean, I don't think I've been necessarily subtle

Could it possibly be something Arclight mentioned about ENFJs not being entirely confident about the fact someone likes them? I always thought NFs could "feel" or "sense" these things

I'm pretty overbearing when I'm interested in someone, due to being over-excited about it. It can feel suffocating and like.. I want to know the other person so well and watch them prosper, but I might not be giving them their chance to chime in. I can't speak for all ENFJs here. Our Fe does kick in and we can't see if we're stepping on your toes when you're not right in front of us (aka work scenario).

NFs, specifically ENFJs, do tend to be good at reading in like that. I think ENFJs are hesitant to say "Yes, this is the case" when something is directly related to them. This is one of those cases where we don't like to be wrong, especially if we're interested. I even find it difficult to admit that I like someone in certain cases, until someone else points it out.
It's not acknowledging my own feelings, even if they are apparent, because of a situation I'm still feeling out.

Fyi everyone, (other enfjs plz share your reactions to the following) I don't think I've *ever* become socially impaired around a guy I've flagged as potential. I can be perceived as shy, but that's usually bc I am watching, waiting & observing. If I am really interested after I've gathered in depth data ... I "pounce" or go in for the kill so to speak. Basically you just have to wait for me to "work" you until I'm satisfied and until I decide what I plan on.

Definitely the same here. I'll likely take the prying side for a bit, until I delve into the more extraverted "Hey hai hey, I'm me. Sup?"

 

[Domino]

Autumn, he held your hand and is all up in your personal space? You are so IN.

When I was getting "in" with my ENTP, I became more physical. Of course, they are themselves rather physical, but I was always wiggling free or passing things off in a joking matter while trying not to blush horribly. When I started initiating personal contact, like touching or rubbing his back, or *eh* putting my hands up the front of his shirt, I knew that I was really seriously besotted.

I don't touch people in a casual manner -- I'll touch your arm or give you a hug or put my arm around you if I know you pretty well, sometimes tease a newcomer with a pat on the shoulder, but hands are SO personal, at least for me. I won't touch your hands unless we're very well acquainted.

 

[Neutralpov]

real flirt= super sexy confident ENFJ



What Domino said...I am blushing so leaving quickly

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

Only in everyone else.. In my case, I have a hard time seeing the feelings coming my way..

I can be the same way. It's like I can't quite trust my own intuition about myself, because my own hopes regarding the interaction bias my perception.

Don't *ever* be worried that an enfj is allowing you to initiate. Its not a bad thing, and more often than not can be the enfj's own initiation of some kind of a "test". The important info lies in whether the enfj reciprocates. (ignoring or indifference=not affirming of feelings. Intensity, seemingly negative or positive... is good)

The communication initiation thing is true. I don't know about other female (or even male) ENFJs, but sometimes it's all I can do to stop myself from initiating some kind of contact, because it means more to me when he approaches me. My response is always very quick and positive (unless I'm not into him, in which case it's a different story entirely!).

I don't touch people in a casual manner -- I'll touch your arm or give you a hug or put my arm around you if I know you pretty well, sometimes tease a newcomer with a pat on the shoulder, but hands are SO personal, at least for me. I won't touch your hands unless we're very well acquainted.

I'm very affectionate but it does take some time or really, really positive intuitions to feel safe/comfortable holding someone's hand. I'm not particularly touchy-feely with people I know, although I will pat most friends on the shoulder, and hug all of them if they'll let me.

 

[AutumnReverie]

Autumn, he held your hand and is all up in your personal space? You are so IN.

When I was getting "in" with my ENTP, I became more physical. Of course, they are themselves rather physical, but I was always wiggling free or passing things off in a joking matter while trying not to blush horribly. When I started initiating personal contact, like touching or rubbing his back, or *eh* putting my hands up the front of his shirt, I knew that I was really seriously besotted.

I don't touch people in a casual manner -- I'll touch your arm or give you a hug or put my arm around you if I know you pretty well, sometimes tease a newcomer with a pat on the shoulder, but hands are SO personal, at least for me. I won't touch your hands unless we're very well acquainted.

Yay, this makes me happy! He definitely has done all the physical descriptions you mentioned, with me. And like you said, I've noticed that he doesn't do any sort of touching with anyone else at work (other than the occasional fist-bump or high-five).'

Anyways, I thought I should update you all on how it's going with the ENFJ: (I'll minimize the text for the TL;DR crowd )

He came over to my place last Thursday night for a movie night, had his arm around me during the movie, then at one point asked if he could kiss me, then we kissed! I also basically asked him if he actually liked me (or if this was just a "tonight" thing) and he was surprised that I would even ask...I guess he thought it was obvious that he's liked me for awhile now. He obviously doesn't understand how confusing ENFJs are... He ended up spending the night (just kissing, laughing, cuddling/sleeping, and watching our movies).

I'm not sure what to do now though ...he's been sick ever since then (this whole weekend plus yesterday -- he's had a horrible flu). And I'm not sure if he's going to ask me out because he hasn't yet and the whole weekend has passed... A good sign though, I guess is...even though he was really sick yesterday (as in throwing up all day + headache + sore throat, etc) he still said that he would pick me up from work and drive me home. Which is what he did and then we texted throughout that night.

My ESFP best guy friend said that I should go ahead and ask him on Wed, if he'd want to have dinner sometime this week. My ESFJ best girl friend disagrees completely and thinks that I shouldn't be the pursuer/initiator and that if I did invite him to dinner it should be one with him + a bunch of my friends. So now I have no idea what to do

Advice, ENFJs? or...anyone? It seems like in our conversations he's been leaving a lot of openings for me to ask him out, so it'd just be easier for me to do that. Maybe he's having doubts as to whether I really like him (since I didn't text or call him at all the entire weekend)? I always feel like I'm bothering him with texts since I'm always the initiator of them, which is why I refrained from doing it the weekend following our "amazing night" (his words). But, then again, he could've called me during that time and he didn't (apart from his message saying that the night was amazing).

Do you think a male ENFJ would be turned off or think I'm being to pushy if I was the one to take the next step?

The communication initiation thing is true. I don't know about other female (or even male) ENFJs, but sometimes it's all I can do to stop myself from initiating some kind of contact, because it means more to me when he approaches me. My response is always very quick and positive (unless I'm not into him, in which case it's a different story entirely!).

Ah, that's good to know because he still very rarely texts me first. I always initiate the texts but he always replies back very quickly (like in less than a minute every time) and very positively. And also sometimes when I don't reply back, he'll send me another message as if he wants to keep the conversation going.

I asked him on Thursday if all my texts bothered him and, again, he was really surprised that I would ask that -- and said that he loves it when I send him a text. But yet...I'm still the one always initiating that.

On the other hand, I guess it kind of balances out because when we're hanging out in-person he's the one who always initiates things (touching, flirting, etc) and I'm the one who mainly just responds.

 

[skylights]

maybe this will go against ENFJ advice, but i feel like if you would like to ask him out, you should do it.

out of curiosity, why does your friend think you shouldn't initiate?

personally, i prefer give-and-take in a relationship. i mean, if you do initiate, then certainly you could leave the next move up to him, but i don't see any reason why you should not do so, especially since he's been sick and probably pretty down and out recently.

 

[Arclight]

I am pretty sure every relationship I have ever been in I was not the one who initiated the 1st kiss.

I have heard the lines "Do I have to throw myself at you to get you figure it out here?" more than a few times.

I am not sure what it's like for ENFJ guys in general, I have no one to compare myself too.

But I am just not.. I don't know.. It's not presumptions exactly.. I am not presumptuous(but presumptuous is not quite the right word, remember?) enough to think someone wants me even if the signs should be obvious.
It's not obvious usually until you offer your love to me, and I will be a bit unsure until then... does that make sense?

So maybe you ought to do some offering??

 

[Cimarron]

Do you think a male ENFJ would be turned off or think I'm being to pushy if I was the one to take the next step?

If you're shy/withdrawn like me, you may worry that things are "too pushy," while the other person doesn't see it as "pushy" at all. It covers completely different ranges for different people. Hmm, you probably already thought about this.