Dyslexia - an alternative perspective

[ragashree]

In this thread I'm going to try to gather together various information available on dyslexia and supplement it with my own thoughts to build a coherent, relatively concise theory on what constitutes the perceptual and neurocognitive basis of the condition. Contributions, insights, and constructive criticism are welcome, whether from people who have dyslexia themselves to any degree, have children or other friends/relatives with the condition, have been involved in teaching dyslexic children or adults, or are simply curious.

I'm primarily interested in examining, and hopefully making progress towards explaining, the underlying causes of the condition and how dyslexic perceptions may differ from those of neurotpical people in certain respects - which helps to explain the wide array of observable symptoms associated with it. I'm not going to go by standard symptomatic definitions, which are primarily of use to those working in education to make categorical diagnoses of different dyslexia-related impairments for administrative and (not necessarily always sucessful) remedial purposes.

Dyslexia is not necessarily a condition which consists entirely of negative symptoms, however, as I'm going to try to make clear. It's entirely possible, for example, contrary to popular belief, for those with dyslexia to acquire advanced skills in reading and other aspects, especially when older, as a result of having learned sucessful strategies for coping with the negative aspects of their condition. This is not the same as being "cured" of dyslexia, however; it's a lifelong condition and will probably continue to manifest in certain, telling, respects.

It's also likely, though not certain, that they will have significant skills and advantages that people who are neurotypical (with respect to dyslexia) commonly lack; these skills are due to the the different dyslexic style of perception and brain organisation just as much as the deficits, and the positive and negative aspects need to be considered in tandem to gain a mature perspective. Whether they're able to make full use of these positive skills in their lives and careers is to a large extent dependent, however, on whether they're able to overcome or find ways around their specific difficulties in a culture so heavily dependent on the use of the written word and symbolic manipulation.

I'm hoping my next couple of posts will help to explain the typical differences between dyslexic and non-dyslexic perceptive styles and why this may confer both advantages and disadvantages on dyslexic people as well as unique educational and learning needs. I'm planning to link some scientific evidence which underlines the essential differences in brain function later on, though those parts are not yet written. It's alll very hypothetical at this stage however, and subject to revision, which is why I'm now putting it out for discussion.

 

[ragashree]

I was thinking that perhaps it might be helpful to percieve this issue as being about the dimensionality of thought processes and how information is stored, retrieved and used by neurotypical vs dyslexic people. By dimensionality I mean something like this: perhaps it's the case that non-dyslexics percieve information to a much greater degree as essentially linear - a single line on which information is placed and ordered, corresponding to a single gemetric dimension. (I'm not trying to use this as a crude metaphor to imply greater or lesser intelligence as "one-dimensional" is often used; more trying to come up with a schema for understanding what might actually be going on in people's heads.) Information is stored in sequence along this line, and is also accessed sequentially in larger or smaller segments as required.

Think perhaps, in relation to reading and other literacy skills, of a single line along which letters are placed, the line going through the centre, with the line itself representing the perceptual medium within which the data is stored. To access the information required, a segment, corresponding to a single word stored in memory as letters or phonemes, is cut from the line, and transmitted to awareness. Since the line only has a single spatial dimension, the sequence of information learned is generally preserved and accessed in exactly the same way each time, though there will of course be greater or lesser errors of process and recall, the human mind being the necessarily imperfect entity that it is.

Better memory (and perhaps greater intelligence) in this context implies greater facility with accessing the information in its proper place on the line quickly and accurately through the strength of cognitive associations formed between different areas, and fewer incidences of damage occurring such as the obliteration of words or letters within the sequence. Also some will simply be able to store a greater quantity of information in this style, be more flexible in their access by being able to jump quickly to different points along it, perhaps by haivng formed multiple and looser associations which can be quickly intuited (though this might also affect the accuracy of recall at times), and recall longer segments of information in general, corresponding to longer words, and the skills required to construct complex phrases and embody thoughts within them. These would all correspond to more advanced intelligence or abilities in the non-dyslexic person.

I'm not saying that information is percieved absolutely in this manner in most people, as we are all individuals with a range of skills and mental processes at our disposal, but that perhaps in people with no dyslexia related issues this will be commonly be the most developed from of information processing and retrieval, and the one naturally used when processing words and similar symbolic information.

This applies to other things that have to be sequenced in the brain such as chronology - as with the common dyslexic tendency to lose track of time and forget where they put things, for example. The non-dyslexic, dependng on the accuracy of their memory and attention, may be able to call on the same linear process to ask a question like "Where was I when?" and relate their activities to a specific point along the line of their temporal experiencing to recall the simple fact that earlier, I was in a particular place around X time, and did a particular thing. This kind of organisation too may naturally be much more difficult for dyslexic people, for reasons I'll shortly imply.

 

[ragashree]

I'd hypothesise that dyslexic people, by contrast, are those who naturally percieve and store information in two and perhaps three dimensions, and have much more limited abilities than non-dyslexics when it comes to linear storage. This may be a mostly inevitable exclusionary process relating to two contrasting preferences being necessarily unequal. I'd suggest that if this is the case, those with more mild or limited dyslexic symptoms may have a stronger capacity for linear information storage and processing, whilst still a preference for the multi-dimensional kind. The converse may apply to neurotypical people with the specific positive skills that are strongly associated with dyslexia.

If information is stored and retrieved in an essentially non-linear way (whether or not this is defined as exclusively visual) it may be percieved more as a field, a two or three dimensional region within which information is located, but without the linear processing style, in no particular order. Or, at least, without an order that transfers directly to the linear process. Let's suppose that, restricting ourselves even to two dimensions, that the sequence of letters in a word is stored not in the linear pattern I previously suggested, but as though they were written on cards or scrabble letters placed on a flat surface. This is not to say that they're placed in their sequential order as the actual word (this would be an attempt to transpose into two dimensions the linear processing stylem which dyslexic people are probably not using) but that the various elements the person percieves as making up the word are present, in some form or other, scattered within a two-dimensional field, perhaps like a sequence of scrabble letters simply thrown down. Since the word was not learned and is not recalled in a sequential manner it may have other perceptual elements associated with it, such as letters that somehow seem like they "should" be there, or which the person adds to try to make what they percieve personally comprehensible.

It is then up to them to create whatever order they can from this information thus scattered. It may be a different order each time, they may have a personal system for trying to turn what they percieve as elements in a field into sequential form (which may explain persisistent dyslexic misspellings of particular well-known words), but one thing that this kind of perception does not lend itself to is simply arranging and remembering things in one single "correct" linear sequence. If it did, the person would not be dyslexic, they would be a neurotypical person with stronger than usual visualisation or multi-dimensional processing capacity.

 

[Betty Blue]

As usual Rag there is much for me to comment on, only this time i can slice it open with the quote features

I'm primarily interested in examining, and hopefully making progress towards explaining, the underlying causes of the condition and how dyslexic perceptions may differ from those of neurotpical people in certain respects - which helps to explain the wide array of observable symptoms associated with it. I'm not going to go by standard symptomatic definitions, which are primarily of use to those working in education to make categorical diagnoses of different dyslexia-related impairments for administrative and (not necessarily always sucessful) remedial purposes.

Wise move, you may actually get somewhere if you avoid the current educational models.

Dyslexia is not necessarily a condition which consists entirely of negative symptoms, however, as I'm going to try to make clear. It's entirely possible, for example, contrary to popular belief, for those with dyslexia to acquire advanced skills in reading and other aspects, especially when older, as a result of having learned sucessful strategies for coping with the negative aspects of their condition. This is not the same as being "cured" of dyslexia, however; it's a lifelong condition and will probably continue to manifest in certain, telling, respects.

When thinking about this it is a good idea to look at the persons behaivour, interests and area's of strengh befor they started school.
You will often find a particularly bright outside of the box thinker who could do things other same aged children found difficult in common dyslexia related strength's. This could also help identify dyslexia a lot younger and if the right help were then possible, it could be introduced at school when they first start.

It's also likely, though not certain, that they will have significant skills and advantages that people who are neurotypical (with respect to dyslexia) commonly lack; these skills are due to the the different dyslexic style of perception and brain organisation just as much as the deficits, and the positive and negative aspects need to be considered in tandem to gain a mature perspective. Whether they're able to make full use of these positive skills in their lives and careers is to a large extent dependent, however, on whether they're able to overcome or find ways around their specific difficulties in a culture so heavily dependent on the use of the written word and symbolic manipulation.

I think there are lots of very simple techniques that can be introduced, and a lot earlier, if they have not suffered too much within the education system already.

I'm hoping my next couple of posts will help to explain the typical differences between dyslexic and non-dyslexic perceptive styles and why this may confer both advantages and disadvantages on dyslexic people as well as unique educational and learning needs. I'm planning to link some scientific evidence which underlines the essential differences in brain function later on, though those parts are not yet written. It's alll very hypothetical at this stage however, and subject to revision, which is why I'm now putting it out for discussion.

Great OP! i will be replying to more posts very soon. I will a while think a little.

 

[ragashree]

When thinking about this it is a good idea to look at the persons behaivour, interests and area's of strengh befor they started school.
You will often find a particularly bright outside of the box thinker who could do things other same aged children found difficult in common dyslexia related strength's. This could also help identify dyslexia a lot younger and if the right help were then possible, it could be introduced at school when they first start.

This reminds me (in particular) of one of my elder brothers when he was young. There seems to be an unusually high proportion of dyslexic people in my family (it is after all, the evidence suggest, an at least partially inheritable condition) and he's one of those who has an adult still has significant difficulties. So far as I can tell he can read ok (at least enough to find out information when required, I can't imagine him ever reading for pleasure) but avoids writing when he can possibly avoid it and seems to have a mortal horror of writing anything that someone else might potentially read and judge him on (like forms and official correspondence, which he would rather hide and hope it goes away). His dyslexic difficulties, therefore, are still quite serious and have a significant impact on his life.

At the age of 11 there was apparently great difficulty in getting him into a "normal" school; he had been doing so poorly in comparison to the other children that the authorities insisted he was mentally subnormal to a significant degree, and would not be accepted in mainstream schooling, but had to attend a special education facility. I went to the same primary school myself years later so I'm fairly familiar with the place from personal experience. I doubt they provided any meaningful help to him or even noticed the specific nature of the difficulties he had - it appeared not to be in their working culture. Perhaps they didn't even know what dyslexia was, or considered it not to be a valid definition.

My mother was confused and surprised by this information about him. Although with a number of children to cope with and some difficulties in her own life, she had not paid much attention to his progress at school or literacy abilities (this inability to give sufficient attention may have been part of the problem, not least by causing his specific difficulties to go unrecognised for some time) she had no particular reason to see him as slower than the others. At that time she knew very little about dyslexia and may not have been aware that this was the nature of his problem. One thing in particular she remembered, however, from when he was very young, around the age of three or four, well before he started school or had recieved any educational attention at all:

He seemed to be very aware of the concept of money to a much greater degree than her other children. Before he had any kind of mathematical instruction (or even knew how to count properly) was able to work out how much exactly how much it would cost to buy something that he wanted, how long it would take to save up for it from his very limited pocket money, what more he would need to make it up to the desired amount, the time period over which he would be able to accumulate enough to get what he wanted, what else he would be able to buy in the meantime, the effect this would have on his overal finances, etc. Essentially, at the age of three or four and without having been shown "how" to he was able to budget, manage finances, relate them to his life, and to a timescale well enough to plan ahead for weeks or months at a time, and perform relatively complex calculations in his head.

I think standard developmental models would categorise these as conceptually advanced skills not expected to be acquired until much older, and needing to be taught via formal instruction. Some adults indeed seem to lack them. Apparently he never failed to arrive at the correct conclusion, and always knew precisely how much he had to spend at any given time, how this would affect his overall finances and future plans,etc. This memory more than anything else convinced her that the school and authorities were mistaken, and caused her to decide to take him out and home educate him for a term. With the increased attention he made quite good progress and was in fact ahead of his peers in certain respects by the time she finally found him a place in a standard school.

Telling, isn't it? But this was getting on for thirty years ago, when we might have expected awareness to be lower. What I find particularly troubling is that very few improvements have been made in recognition or agknowledgement of the condition since then, and that this kind of thing can easily happen in the present day - as you yourself will know.

I think there are lots of very simple techniques that can be introduced, and a lot earlier, if they have not suffered too much within the education system already.

I had a few further ideas on this (as you know!) which I was planning to get into later. I'm sure you have ideas and knowledge of your own on this though - is there anything that springs to mind that you might want to mention?

 

[Betty Blue]

This reminds me (in particular) of one of my elder brothers when he was young. There seems to be an unusually high proportion of dyslexic people in my family (it is after all, the evidence suggest, an at least partially inheritable condition) and he's one of those who has an adult still has significant difficulties. So far as I can tell he can read ok (at least enough to find out information when required, I can't imagine him ever reading for pleasure) but avoids writing when he can possibly avoid it and seems to have a mortal horror of writing anything that someone else might potentially read and judge him on (like forms and official correspondence, which he would rather hide and hope it goes away). His dyslexic difficulties, therefore, are still quite serious and have a significant impact on his life.

Yes this is pretty much the same for my brother. He is actually very good at managing, and maths was not a particular difficulty for him, although i am aware that (at least at the lower levels) maths can be a great difficulty for some with dyslexia. He really does have a great deal of difficulty remembering where he left his keys, phone, charger, bike! (when he had a bike). His writing, when he can't avoid writing, would resemble that of a typical 10 or 11 year old but he reads avidly, and has great political knowledge and world affairs, also history.

At the age of 11 there was apparently great difficulty in getting him into a "normal" school; he had been doing so poorly in comparison to the other children that the authorities insisted he was mentally subnormal to a significant degree, and would not be accepted in mainstream schooling, but had to attend a special education facility. I went to the same primary school myself years later so I'm fairly familiar with the place from personal experience. I doubt they provided any meaningful help to him or even noticed the specific nature of the difficulties he had - it appeared not to be in their working culture. Perhaps they didn't even know what dyslexia was, or considered it not to be a valid definition.

Sadly in many cases schools, including the special help such as 1-2-1 workers still have absolutely no idea. On a more positive note there are exercises that he can do, if he is willing-although it may just seem like opening a can of worms and therefor something to avoid. As long as you look in the right places at the more alternative approaches. It's almost laughable that the models/programs that have the highest efficiency are also considered by most as alternative and far fetched. Especially when there is evidence to show how well they work.

My mother was confused and surprised by this information about him. Although with a number of children to cope with and some difficulties in her own life, she had not paid much attention to his progress at school or literacy abilities (this inability to give sufficient attention may have been part of the problem, not least by causing his specific difficulties to go unrecognised for some time) she had no particular reason to see him as slower than the others. At that time she knew very little about dyslexia and may not have been aware that this was the nature of his problem. One thing in particular she remembered, however, from when he was very young, around the age of three or four, well before he started school or had recieved any educational attention at all:



He seemed to be very aware of the concept of money to a much greater degree than her other children. Before he had any kind of mathematical instruction (or even knew how to count properly) was able to work out how much exactly how much it would cost to buy something that he wanted, how long it would take to save up for it from his very limited pocket money, what more he would need to make it up to the desired amount, the time period over which he would be able to accumulate enough to get what he wanted, what else he would be able to buy in the meantime, the effect this would have on his overal finances, etc. Essentially, at the age of three or four and without having been shown "how" to he was able to budget, manage finances, relate them to his life, and to a timescale well enough to plan ahead for weeks or months at a time, and perform relatively complex calculations in his head.

This dosn't surprise me at all, my son has always been very good at managing his money, infact it seems that if he is focused on the organisation of one thing (esp a concept) he manages it very well. Specifically in relation to money my son is incredibly good at managing his own. He is only 10 yet he has a money box and makes numbers out of plasticine which he puts on the outside of it so he knows exactly how much he has. He also budgets and is very good at saving. Another friend of mine who has dyslexia is one of the best budgeters i know, has his own business and runs it very smoothly without the need for much reading and writing.
I think it's worth adding here that because people vary so much in thier dyslexia that this is not always the case. My brother for example, although exemplary at running the budget for the large shop he runs, is pretty bad at managing his own budget.

I think standard developmental models would categorise these as conceptually advanced skills not expected to be acquired until much older, and needing to be taught via formal instruction. Some adults indeed seem to lack them. Apparently he never failed to arrive at the correct conclusion, and always knew precisely how much he had to spend at any given time, how this would affect his overall finances and future plans,etc. This memory more than anything else convinced her that the school and authorities were mistaken, and caused her to decide to take him out and home educate him for a term. With the increased attention he made quite good progress and was in fact ahead of his peers in certain respects by the time she finally found him a place in a standard school.

I think she did the best for him at that time, with obvious hard work she achieved what the schools could not. It speaks volumns. I did the same thing for my son (pretty much).

Telling, isn't it? But this was getting on for thirty years ago, when we might have expected awareness to be lower. What I find particularly troubling is that very few improvements have been made in recognition or agknowledgement of the condition since then, and that this kind of thing can easily happen in the present day - as you yourself will know.

This is exactly the problem. One thing i find extreamly troubling as you have mentioned yourself is the focus on phonics programs in schools for children with dyslexia. They really do not help, infact they exacerbate the situation and add to the childs feeling of not fitting in, not being good enough and general confusion...as a mother of a dyslexic child when ever i hear educational reps talking about phonics programs i immedaitely feel like this

I had a few further ideas on this (as you know!) which I was planning to get into later. I'm sure you have ideas and knowledge of your own on this though - is there anything that springs to mind that you might want to mention?

EDIT: Realised after this may not be what you are asking, below i am just speaking of a way in which i believe dyslexics will learn in a highly effective way.

Well i believe that when learning the alphabet initially, it should be done in a multisensory way. Through making the letters out of clay, one at a time until the whole alphabet is learned. The exact way to do this i won't expound on right now but the idea is to have a fixed visual image of each letter so that it can then be applied to seeing it in print but only once it is learned through touch, 3d sight, and visualisation.
IMO, no reading alaphabet letters in print until they have first been learnt this way.
That is just the beginning, thats is just the alphabet, we can move on to whole words, sentances and paragraphs later in a dyslexia friendly way and NOT in the conventional way.

 

[Haphazard]

It seems that if you're dyslexic in English, then perhaps it's not the right language for you.

 

[Betty Blue]

It seems that if you're dyslexic in English, then perhaps it's not the right language for you.

Very interesting article. I certainly do know that which language you speak does affect dyslexia. The more phonetically correct the language the easier it is for dyslexics. Take spanish for example, it is a language in which much of the words sound as they are spelled. As a result there are much fewer dyslexics (or at least dyslexics having difficulty with reading and writing) in Spain.
Of course Dyslexia affects much more than just phonetical decoding, it is just part of it. But i am willing to entertain that people with dyslexia may appear to have much less difficulty over all in countries where the language itself is phonetically correct, or as in the case of the article-in symbols.

 

[Betty Blue]

Here is another article referring to the difference in languages and how they affect dyslexics.
A very good read
Dyslexia has a language barrier | Education | The Guardian


Cited from the article....

Research by Frith's team shows that small variations in brain organisation are due to orthography, with Italian making more demands on the phonemic system, because it is regular, and English making more demands on the naming system because words cannot be read correctly using phonic rules and have to be named - for example: colonel, yacht, pint. We assume the part of Alan's brain that deals with phonemic analysis is not working efficiently, which causes a problem reading English, compared to Japanese.

 

[Haphazard]

Very interesting article. I certainly do know that which language you speak does affect dyslexia. The more phonetically correct the language the easier it is for dyslexics. Take spanish for example, it is a language in which much of the words sound as they are spelled. As a result there are much fewer dyslexics (or at least dyslexics having difficulty with reading and writing) in Spain.
Of course Dyslexia affects much more than just phonetical decoding, it is just part of it. But i am willing to entertain that people with dyslexia may appear to have much less difficulty over all in countries where the language itself is phonetically correct, or as in the case of the article-in symbols.

Not really, apparently there are different proportions of types of dyslexia in Spanish/French as there are in English. Fascinating stuff.

For what it's worth, the only reason I can remember where anything is is because I remember exactly how I put it where I put it, visually. It becomes very frustrating when the data in my brain is actually old data, from years ago, and the thing is not there, because I know I put it there, but I have no idea when that happened

 

[Betty Blue]

Not really, apparently there are different proportions of types of dyslexia in Spanish/French as there are in English. Fascinating stuff.

For what it's worth, the only reason I can remember where anything is is because I remember exactly how I put it where I put it, visually. It becomes very frustrating when the data in my brain is actually old data, from years ago, and the thing is not there, because I know I put it there, but I have no idea when that happened

I'm not sure if i havn't explained myself correctly or if you are misinterpreting what i am saying. Or if i am just missing something.
As far as i have seen, research wise, there is a notable lower incidence of dyslexia in Spain. The language is more correct phonetically comparitive to English, and the words are pronounced similarly to how they are written.
I think there are some differences in Italian in pronounciation, although seemingly phonetically correct in writing. I have not really looked into Italian much but i do speak a little Spanish so am a bit more clued up as to how the language is constructed.
I'm not sure if diagnostics (and if there is a lack there of) play a part.
I also understand that countries that use symbols instead of characters (e.g China, Japan) rely on less syllables, one per character (or symbol), making it easier to find a direct match visually, and thus easier for the dyslexic to visually memorise.
I have come across several articles like the one you posted and find them very interesting and useful in my own personal research.
If i am missing something here please discuss

 

[Haphazard]

You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?

 

[Betty Blue]

You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?

Oh i see, i was approaching it as a whole rather than under subtyping. I did miss what you were referring to. I also think it's possible for one to have two of the subtypes or all three in varying degrees. My son certainly has traits of all three. I'd be interested to know which (of the three main) subtypes, if they can be catorgorised in such a way, are more prevalent in which countries though. Do you have a link?

 

[Haphazard]

Oh i see, i was approaching it as a whole rather than under subtyping. I did miss what you were referring to. I also think it's possible for one to have two of the subtypes or all three in varying degrees. My son certainly has traits of all three. I'd be interested to know which (of the three main) subtypes, if they can be catorgorised in such a way, are more prevalent in which countries though. Do you have a link?

ScienceDirect - Journal of Experimental Child Psychology : Spanish developmental dyslexia: Prevalence, cognitive profile, and home literacy experiences

Have at.

 

[Betty Blue]

ScienceDirect - Journal of Experimental Child Psychology : Spanish developmental dyslexia: Prevalence, cognitive profile, and home literacy experiences

Have at.

Thanks for the link. I understand where you are coming from now and think it has validity, you certainly know more about subtyping than me. Maybe you could post a breakdown of subtyping and prevalance in this thread?

As i said i was referring more in the general, and in the general rates of dyslexia are lower in phonetically (more) correct languages. However that dosn't mean i discount what you are stating. Infact it may be a good way of determining real rates of dyslexia as opposed to just diagnosed rates.

Scientists Explain Rates of Dyslexia: Scientific American

 

[Haphazard]

Well, it would be curious to look at languages that are even more different, like Hebrew, which has no indication on how to pronounce vowels, or Korean, which is constructed with characters that all have a certain sound but is put together differently depending on which characters are close to what (like ß only more extreme).

 

[Walking Tourist]

I have phonetic dyslexia and auditory processing disorder, neither of which were identified when I was in school. Before I started school, at the age of four, I had already taught myself to read. This was due to the fact that my parents read to me every day. My mom put her finger under the words and, gradually, the letters turned into words for me. I never went through the learn the alphabet stage or the recognize the sounds phase. I simply recognized entire words. That is the way that I still read.
When I started in first grade, my teacher placed me in a fast reading group because I came to school as a reader. When she discovered that I could not do the phonics drills, she moved me to a middle reading group. Of course, I still couldn't do phonics drills nor did I see any benefit in doing them. I really didn't understand the point of them. Then I was moved to the slow reading group. It was very boring.
That was when I learned that there was two kids of reading: fun reading that you do at home (fairy tales, folk tales, Dr. Seuss) and boring reading that you do at school (Dick and Jane, etc.).
That was when I lost interest in school as a place where I would learn new things and satisfy my curiosity about the world. I began looking out the window and longing for something better that was out there, not in the classroom.
The educational system did not do wonders for me.
edit: I still cannot do phonics but I had no trouble at all in learning Spanish!!!

One thing i find extreamly troubling as you have mentioned yourself is the focus on phonics programs in schools for children with dyslexia. They really do not help, infact they exacerbate the situation and add to the childs feeling of not fitting in, not being good enough and general confusion...as a mother of a dyslexic child when ever i hear educational reps talking about phonics programs i immedaitely feel like this




EDIT: Realised after this may not be what you are asking, below i am just speaking of a way in which i believe dyslexics will learn in a highly effective way.

Well i believe that when learning the alphabet initially, it should be done in a multisensory way. Through making the letters out of clay, one at a time until the whole alphabet is learned. The exact way to do this i won't expound on right now but the idea is to have a fixed visual image of each letter so that it can then be applied to seeing it in print but only once it is learned through touch, 3d sight, and visualisation.
IMO, no reading alaphabet letters in print until they have first been learnt this way.
That is just the beginning, thats is just the alphabet, we can move on to whole words, sentances and paragraphs later in a dyslexia friendly way and NOT in the conventional way.

You do know the difference between phonetic and surface dyslexia, right?

 

[tinkerbell]

LOL I hardly made it through the very first post that I think this is right up there with the insane post of a few months ago talking about the gift that is dysleia.

There is nothing, nothing at all that is good about having dyslexia. The "giftedness" that people assume is the benefit of dyslexia is not related to the condition, but is likely to be co-incidental.

I would like to point out what I mean is that the dylsexic population can be as creative or non creative as the next person, they do not have an over compensation on being massively artistic. I'm talking the population not individual people. So many people seem to think that this is a middle class condition, which otherwise bright kids suffere from, I can give you total assurance that the kids in my year at school, a sample size of 300, 25 dyslexic/remedial kids of which were from deprived and not well educated etc, of which probably 80% were diagnosed with dyslexia, I think there was only about 4 more kids that were not in remedial education full time (ie they followed the normal curriculum).

Of those c.20 kids, who were not the brightest sparks, about half had artitist ability, some had physical abilities, either in the way of agression or sport, but no underlying wonderfulness exsisted.

I grew up as the youngest of 11 kids, of which 3 of us were fully dyslexic the oldest of which being the msot sever and receivign the least support from teh system. My mum was probably borderline. Since the 1980's about 2 or 3 more of my siblings claim to be dyslexic, which my mum would say was utter rubbish, but hey where there is a bandwagon everyone wants on.

Dylseixa and autisim and alcohal abuse seem to run within generations. the cause and the effect is not clear by any respects, often this reads across many generations.

Out of my siblings the 3 of us who are dyslexic, 2 of us are avide readers, I wanted to read as a kid, more than anythign I wanted what was in those books, the eldest is just wanting knowledge, the third of us, is a natrual networker, with the emotional intellegence of a giant, who can create networks out of thin air. He is a gifted artist. I could ahve been a professional potter (as in ceramics), but my ability to paint is affected by poor hand eye co-ordination at a detailed level. Like everything, if you spend 1300 hours (or however many is recommended by outliers), anyone can be professient in anything.

The detail fo dylsexia is very different for different people, some kids can't speak, hence phonetic spelling is a dissaster - Baff being something one does in the tub, is an interesting take when the kid sis beign brought up saying that instead of bath.

Dysgraphia, which I suffered from as well, I got taught to write on more than one occation, god help if the police ever try and diagnosed "who dun it" from my hand writng.

I also make sequencing errors, and screw up the last three letters of the word.

I have higher numeracy than most, including statistics and logical thinking, but bad at budgetting, amazin at budgetting other peoples money.

I am brighter than the average bear, was facinated by cooking, and lots of different crafts etc (ENTP thing), langauges are not my thing, I think because I can't really hear the distinctions of sounds.

I don't see words jumping on the page, but I do have bilateral brain hemespher function - ie I do maths and paint pictures. I do well visually.

for those who are not dyslexic, PLEASE leave out what a wonderful bloody gift is it, its totalyl disrespectful to the sheer amount of energy it takes to get you through the day, the humilation of beign belitted by very ignorant people who intellectualyl just aren't up to much.

If you have the creativitiy of a teaspoon then go off and learn how to be more creative, try readings ticky wisdom, or attend a trainign course by an innovations agency. look at the world differently, it really isn't a gift and it is a learned behaviour.

 

[Betty Blue]

LOL I hardly made it through the very first post that I think this is right up there with the insane post of a few months ago talking about the gift that is dysleia.

It really might be conducive if you did read the post befor dismissing it.

There is nothing, nothing at all that is good about having dyslexia. The "giftedness" that people assume is the benefit of dyslexia is not related to the condition, but is likely to be co-incidental.

You have made it clear you feel this way yet much research states otherwise, including scientific research and research carried out by oxford university.

I would like to point out what I mean is that the dylsexic population can be as creative or non creative as the next person, they do not have an over compensation on being massively artistic. I'm talking the population not individual people. So many people seem to think that this is a middle class condition, which otherwise bright kids suffere from, I can give you total assurance that the kids in my year at school, a sample size of 300, 25 dyslexic/remedial kids of which were from deprived and not well educated etc, of which probably 80% were diagnosed with dyslexia, I think there was only about 4 more kids that were not in remedial education full time (ie they followed the normal curriculum).



Of those c.20 kids, who were not the brightest sparks, about half had artitist ability, some had physical abilities, either in the way of agression or sport, but no underlying wonderfulness exsisted.

Probably the kind of tests they did do would indicate that. Tests even now do not pick up a lot of giftedness because they are geared towards acedemia, which is not an area dyslexic individuals shine in. Again i would be happy to provide links but i just feel as if your mind is made up and you are not prepared to even read into it. I don't understand why you are so hell bent on making your argument that dyslexics are not inherently talented when you always state that you are.

I grew up as the youngest of 11 kids, of which 3 of us were fully dyslexic the oldest of which being the msot sever and receivign the least support from teh system. My mum was probably borderline. Since the 1980's about 2 or 3 more of my siblings claim to be dyslexic, which my mum would say was utter rubbish, but hey where there is a bandwagon everyone wants on.

Wow, so on that premise, someone in your family must think there is actualy something good about being dyslexic. They must be wrong, oh and not dyslexic.

Dylseixa and autisim and alcohal abuse seem to run within generations. the cause and the effect is not clear by any respects, often this reads across many generations.


Out of my siblings the 3 of us who are dyslexic, 2 of us are avide readers, I wanted to read as a kid, more than anythign I wanted what was in those books, the eldest is just wanting knowledge, the third of us, is a natrual networker, with the emotional intellegence of a giant, who can create networks out of thin air. He is a gifted artist. I could ahve been a professional potter (as in ceramics), but my ability to paint is affected by poor hand eye co-ordination at a detailed level. Like everything, if you spend 1300 hours (or however many is recommended by outliers), anyone can be professient in anything.

So two of the three dyslexic siblings are gifted by your own admission. Can you see the contradiction?
And no not anyone can be proficient in anything, you just stated you can't be proficient in pottery, again contradiciton.

The detail fo dylsexia is very different for different people, some kids can't speak, hence phonetic spelling is a dissaster - Baff being something one does in the tub, is an interesting take when the kid sis beign brought up saying that instead of bath.

Yes it is different. Everyone has individual strengths and weaknesses. I have never heard of someone with dyslexia who couldn't speak though, difficulties with language output yes, but not unable to speak at all due to dyslexia.
I'm pretty sure nearly all, if not all, dyslexic individuals have great difficulty with phonics.

Dysgraphia, which I suffered from as well, I got taught to write on more than one occation, god help if the police ever try and diagnosed "who dun it" from my hand writng.

I also make sequencing errors, and screw up the last three letters of the word.

These are all very common difficulties amoung individuals with dyslexia.

I have higher numeracy than most, including statistics and logical thinking, but bad at budgetting, amazin at budgetting other peoples money.

I am brighter than the average bear, was facinated by cooking, and lots of different crafts etc (ENTP thing), langauges are not my thing, I think because I can't really hear the distinctions of sounds.

I don't see words jumping on the page, but I do have bilateral brain hemespher function - ie I do maths and paint pictures. I do well visually.

These are all common strengths of individuals with dyslexia.

for those who are not dyslexic, PLEASE leave out what a wonderful bloody gift is it, its totalyl disrespectful to the sheer amount of energy it takes to get you through the day, the humilation of beign belitted by very ignorant people who intellectualyl just aren't up to much.

I'm presuming this is aimed at me because i am the only poster in this thread who is not dyslexic.
However, i have a lot of dyslexia in my family so it would be unfair to say i am not involved or affected by dyslexia.

I'd also like to point out that this thread is about an alternative perspective, it is not about "what a wonderful bloody gift it is".
If you want to rant at me personally as a follow on from the thread i started about giftedness and dyslexia, i suggest you go back to that thread. Using this thread as a venting ground is pretty pathetic.

If you have the creativitiy of a teaspoon then go off and learn how to be more creative, try readings ticky wisdom, or attend a trainign course by an innovations agency. look at the world differently, it really isn't a gift and it is a learned behaviour.

Thanks for your constructive imput, much appreciated.

 

[Betty Blue]

I just found some information plus an image (searched for hours for this!) that i thought would be a good explanation of how the dyslexic mind, for a large percentage of dyslexic individuals, thinks differently to the neurotypical one.
For the sake of this article we will assume that the dyslexic mind is a visual spatial thinker. Alternatively we can assume most dyslexic individuals use visual spatial thinking over auditory sequential thinking.