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Does anyone "deserve" to be hit?

Is it ever justified to smack somebody?


  • Total voters
    50

Fluffywolf

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Let me try to understand and excuse my being slow. You believe that sometimes fighting ends up as the best solution and yet you believe that it's still not justified in that situation? Your justice is then mere imagination?

Sometimes fighting does appear to be the best solution. But it should have been prevented alltogether for it to be a justifiable course of action.

Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.

So whilest I would fight, should I find myself in that situation. I do not see it as justifiable and would instead work on ways to prevent it from happening again.
 

Poki

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Shouldn't Personal Justification require everyone's attention and thus require best solution? Doesn't justice deal with fairness and equal distribution?

Only if you act on personal justification. This would be required with people like judges, but I dont take on that role in society. We must all have personal justifications before we can merge them with others. To me its a one-on-one thing and needs to be worked out between those people involved, no one has to take on anyones justification unless its applied large scale. If you are off quite a bit then yes you should reevaluate your personal justice or best solution. The people who seem to fight this style most are in things like politics where they aim for "group" decisions. The extremes end up so seperated its hard to come to a "deal". I am extremely flexible in this regard so I dont need to modify my personal justification, I know its not the best solution, but its my personal best solution.
 

Lightyear

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You're going to think this is librull word-splitting but I think the word "deserve" is the sticking point here. There are definitely times when a good clocking is necessary (self-defense is the only one I can think of at the moment) but it isn't exactly because the person "deserves" it. It's a practical matter, to get them off your back so you can get away.

So practically speaking, yes, it can be necessary. But ideologically speaking there's really never a reason for it IMO. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes WANT to club someone with a deer antler but I manage to hold myself back most of the time.

I agree with that. I don't think anyone deserves to be hit but there are situations were it isn't so clear in practice. Of course one question is if children should ever be hit, I have worked with kids who deserved a good smacking because they were out of control, in opposition to authority and abusing the fact that their environment was so lax when it came to punishing them for their destructive actions. I think with kids it completely depends on the personality of the child, if it is the only way to make them understand authority and boundaries I am not against smacking.

With adults I would only hit someone in self-defence. But for example I can also understand a guy I knew who told me how his former girlfriend went bat-shit-crazy and hysterical in Glasgow's main train station and as a result he smacked her. I might feel like doing the same in such a situation but would hopefully be able to control myself.
 

ObliviousExistence

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humans as a whole aren't civilized enough to go the non-violence route yet, some people just need a good smack around from time to time. Whoever says violence is not the answer clearly has no clue what they are talking about.
 

Craft

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Sometimes fighting does appear to be the best solution. But it should have been prevented alltogether for it to be a justifiable course of action.

Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.

So whilest I would fight, should I find myself in that situation. I do not see it as justifiable and would instead work on ways to prevent it from happening again.
your saying that your actions are not justified because you didn't prevent it from happening in the first place? But your not the only factor in this causality. You are only forced to face the problem because of outside forces not because you hadn't plan to avoid it. How is it unfair for you to retaliate?

seems an impossible feat to remove the possibility of violence. With this in mind, the fair attitude would be to take this into account and act when obligated.

The most effective action that could make the most people benefit from it is the most just.
 

Mempy

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You're going to think this is librull word-splitting but I think the word "deserve" is the sticking point here. There are definitely times when a good clocking is necessary (self-defense is the only one I can think of at the moment) but it isn't exactly because the person "deserves" it. It's a practical matter, to get them off your back so you can get away.

So practically speaking, yes, it can be necessary. But ideologically speaking there's really never a reason for it IMO. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes WANT to club someone with a deer antler but I manage to hold myself back most of the time.

:yes:

I would answer the poll with yes, it's probably sometimes justified to smack somebody: not because they deserve it, but because the most practical answer is force. I don't know that anyone ever deserves to be hit. I lean toward no. The word justified is tricky, because it can imply serving justice or it can imply just cause that has nothing to do with punishment. A better question, in my mind, is, Is it ever practical to hit somebody? Yes, surely.
 
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Oberon

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Fighting back doesn't stop the fighting. Preventing the fight is what should be aimed for. If you find yourself in a situation where you can only fight, then you must have done something wrong in order to get there in the first place.

I disagree. Sometimes doing the wrong things is entirely the work of other people.

It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."
 

Fluffywolf

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I disagree. Sometimes doing the wrong things is entirely the work of other people.

It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."

I've no doubt that the wrongdoing can be done by someone else. I'm just saying that launching a few nukes on a country isn't a justifiable way to gain world peace.

Excuse me for going overboard on the metaphor here, but I can only repeat what I said in so many words. It seems I have a different idea of what real justification is. On a grand scale. But if you want to find your justification within the skirmish presented, go ahead. I mean, it's not like I expect humanity to better themselves, or even want or need them too. Just thought of pointing out the futility in fighting back.

Justification is something that's being abused by every nation in the world, no biggie. I'm not interested in starting my own nation so it doesn't concern me. :p
 

simulatedworld

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It's like that Jefferson quote to the effect of "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who didn't."

Sweet, now I know where that Magic: The Gathering card came from!
 
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Oberon

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I've no doubt that the wrongdoing can be done by someone else. I'm just saying that launching a few nukes on a country isn't a justifiable way to gain world peace.

Excuse me for going overboard on the metaphor here, but I can only repeat what I said in so many words. It seems I have a different idea of what real justification is. On a grand scale. But if you want to find your justification within the skirmish presented, go ahead. I mean, it's not like I expect humanity to better themselves, or even want or need them too. Just thought of pointing out the futility in fighting back.

Justification is something that's being abused by every nation in the world, no biggie. I'm not interested in starting my own nation so it doesn't concern me. :p


Well, all right, if you say so.

I strongly suspect that, given that you are a person willing to make avoidance of violence an absolute top priority, living in a world with other people who have no such compunctions, it is by no means proven that you can always successfully avoid violence. I think there are likely to be times and places in which all your possible solutions are a null set.
 

Betty Blue

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This is reasoning that I endorse. My purpose in this thread is to examine the question outside of relationships. Is there ever justification for a stiff overhand right to the mouth?

Please discuss.

I may make this a poll.

Based on my own set of morals (not set in stone or written in any book or list)
I feel there are situations in which it would be justifiable to hit/smack or even kill someone. I do not adhere to the flawed legal system for this, I do not trust it, I think for myself.
For example
A friend has been regularly beaten up by partner they have been married to for several years, including hospitalisations one of which was life threatening. This friend is too afraid of leaving. If i walked in and witnessed this abuse and believed the friends life was in danger i would think nothing of hitting the abuser over the head with a heavy/sharp/blunt object. This would be on the assumption that i personally knew the details.
This friend could be male or female and i would act in the same way.
There are many other situations too.
 

kyuuei

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I put yes. Whether I look for justification in my actions all the time is questionable..

...but if you, or anyone else, puts their hands on me and it's not welcomed, I only warn once, and sometimes not even that (I.E. anyone attempting to grab at private areas knowing full well that was their intentions). After that, you get what *I* think you deserve. Whether someone else thinks its overkill or not is their opinion.
 

Biaxident

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I wouldn't have put it so blandly, but, yes, under certain circumstances, there are people who will need a beat down.

Perhaps in another thousand years, when humanity has become more enlightened(if we haven't blown ourselves to hell), no one will "deserve" to be hit.



Lots of sheltered idealists here...

It's true that as adults we can choose the company we keep.

Some company will lead to violence and some company will lead to pleasure and delight.

However some company is better than no company, and so if pleasure and delight are out of our reach, we reach for those who share our predilections.

Sure. And some company promise one thing, yet deliver another.

And unfortunately there are millions of people in the world, who would rather use violence to solve every problem. So avoiding them is problematic, unless you move to the South Pole.
 

Fluffywolf

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Well, all right, if you say so.

I strongly suspect that, given that you are a person willing to make avoidance of violence an absolute top priority, living in a world with other people who have no such compunctions, it is by no means proven that you can always successfully avoid violence. I think there are likely to be times and places in which all your possible solutions are a null set.

I'm not some saint that would avoid violence at the cost of things important to me, I just said I don't see it as justified when I do so.
 

Craft

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I'm not some saint that would avoid violence at the cost of things important to me, I just said I don't see it as justified when I do so.

Tell me. What is your justice? In your opinion within a situation wherein violence is the best solution, what action then is justified?
 

Metamorphosis

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Physical violence can serve the same purpose as a powered fence for a dog. It tells people, "You just stepped out of line." Let's be real, if someone slaps you, your face might hurt for a day or two. If they tore you a new asshole verbally, you could be hurt for longer than that. I don't understand why someone would think physical violence is not ok, when the absence of physical violence means you have to use more verbal/emotional aggression to check someone. Plus, there are those people that just refuse to listen to reason and circumstances in which there isn't the necessary time to sit down and have a long discussion.

I think a lot of the stigma against even minor amounts of physical violence comes from people who rarely or never experience it and think that it is worse than it actually is.
 

Fluffywolf

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Tell me. What is your justice? In your opinion within a situation wherein violence is the best solution, what action then is justified?

None, the action that would have prevented the skirmish was justified and that has been passed up on.
 

Craft

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the action that would have prevented the skirmish was justified and that has been passed up on.

But that's an entirely different situation--separate from the discussion. I'm talking about an unavoidable skirmish.


How is this Justice?
 

Poki

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Physical violence can serve the same purpose as a powered fence for a dog. It tells people, "You just stepped out of line." Let's be real, if someone slaps you, your face might hurt for a day or two. If they tore you a new asshole verbally, you could be hurt for longer than that. I don't understand why someone would think physical violence is not ok, when the absence of physical violence means you have to use more verbal/emotional aggression to check someone. Plus, there are those people that just refuse to listen to reason and circumstances in which there isn't the necessary time to sit down and have a long discussion.

I think a lot of the stigma against even minor amounts of physical violence comes from people who rarely or never experience it and think that it is worse than it actually is.

There is no verbal/emotional fight that will kill you, all it can do is cause immense pain and hurt. Physical violence can kill. One you will always have the chance to heal from the other you cannot. People dont fear minor skirmishes, but fear the possibility of it escalating.

Another thing is that physical violence from a loved one can cause emotional pain/hurt just like verbal. Yet verbal will never cause the physical pain, until someone responds with violence.
 
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