Do any of you INTPs behave like ISFPs when you are under stress?

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Especially in connection to (romantic) relationships?

 

[JocktheMotie]

It'd be better if you could explain what behaviors you're associating with ISFPs in relationships.

And is this in connection to stress within the relationship or outside of it?

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Mh, maybe I'm mixing up some conceptions about ISFPs with INTPs....I am not sure...
What I mean is the tendency of my INTP (supposed) boyfriend to draw back into his shell during conflict. I mean the tendency to NOT argue (which is not typical for him otherwise, he knows how to defend himself otherwise)....., NOT defend himself but just fall dead silent. I don't even know if this is really typical of ISFPs...... and the not being able to express yourself during conflict, because of some internal thinking process going on.... not finding the right words to defend oneself, and not saying anything until the right words are found or you are being pressured.... I know I wrote something like this in another thread already. I'm sorry.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Well if it's within the relationship, it can start to seem like I'm emotionally checking out of the relationship. If the conflict has to do with emotions, and specifically yours, it could be likely he's not responding simply because he doesn't know how. If it has to do with his, he may not be able to articulate them very well, so he doesn't if he thinks he might be misunderstood.

If my SO explains her feelings to me the only thing I can think of to say is "I'm sorry you feel that way?" in a robotic voice, which makes the whole thing worse [I've tried].

uch:

 

[Totenkindly]

Basically, if introverted flexy people don't like conflict, they can find it easy to just clam out and pull back into their shells. I've found ISFPs to not really like conflict at all... it unsettles them... and INTPs tend to go one of two ways -- either getting snarky/intellectually critical about it (as a defense mechanism) or just pulling back as well.

As far as what is going on inside?
- Might not understand why you're mad.
- Might feel you are attacking unfairly, the situation seems far more complex.
- Might not have yet worked through all his feelings and thoughts and doesn't want to commit them.
- Feels overwhelmed and needs to maintain freedom... this is best done via silence, if the outside world won't retreat.
- Might have a LOT of things he COULD say... but they would be very damaging to the relationship, so instead of cutting you down he is abstaining.

just lots of reasons here, I think. I know it is frustrating to be on the outside and wonder "Why doesn't s/he TALK?" For me, it took me a long time to realize I could be safe enough in a relationship to let the work happen externally, as part of communication, than doing it all inside first and then only showing the safe parts.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Basically, if introverted flexy people don't like conflict, they can find it easy to just clam out and pull back into their shells. I've found ISFPs to not really like conflict at all... it unsettles them... and INTPs tend to go one of two ways -- either getting snarky/intellectually critical about it (as a defense mechanism) or just pulling back as well.

As far as what is going on inside?
- Might not understand why you're mad.
- Might feel you are attacking unfairly, the situation seems far more complex.
- Might not have yet worked through all his feelings and thoughts and doesn't want to commit them.
- Feels overwhelmed and needs to maintain freedom... this is best done via silence, if the outside world won't retreat.
- Might have a LOT of things he COULD say... but they would be very damaging to the relationship, so instead of cutting you down he is abstaining.

just lots of reasons here, I think. I know it is frustrating to be on the outside and wonder "Why doesn't s/he TALK?" For me, it took me a long time to realize I could be safe enough in a relationship to let the work happen externally, as part of communication, than doing it all inside first and then only showing the safe parts.

Thanks, it really helps a lot to know that..... I think the reason's you gave hit the nail on the head (if there is a saying like this)...... mh.....he always says he has a LOT going on inside that he doesn't say.... and he says he gets into some kind of meta-thinking (--> e.g.: what does she think when I say this? should I say this? what will happen when I say this? Oh I should be saying something, she gets more angry....etc).... I don't really know how to make him feel more secure :/...been together for quite a while (4 years), and he immediately retreats during conflict...makes me angry, and this quickly turns into a vicious circle....mh.......can't exclude the ISFP-behaviour completely, because I think he doesn't like conflict at all. and gets quiet always, never intellectually critical so much I think..... rather into this internal thinking mode......aah...don't know...

 

[Totenkindly]

... he says he gets into some kind of meta-thinking (--> e.g.: what does she think when I say this? should I say this? what will happen when I say this? Oh I should be saying something, she gets more angry....etc)....

yes, totally. INTPs (and maybe some other types) seem to meta instinctively and in fact have trouble NOT meta-ing.

So while someone else asks me a simple question, I immediately step outside the situation and look at it from all different angles, trying to understand what is going on and how we ended up at this point; what the possibilities are; and where the mental flowchart says things will go next. If you can imagine how complicated this quickly gets, especially if you are a big-picture thinker and are pulling in past information, conversations, discussions, to inform you on what is happening now so you can figure out the best thing to do or say....? It becomes very complex very quickly, and confusing -- so silence is very likely.

I don't really know how to make him feel more secure :/...been together for quite a while (4 years), and he immediately retreats during conflict...makes me angry, and this quickly turns into a vicious circle....mh.......can't exclude the ISFP-behaviour completely, because I think he doesn't like conflict at all. and gets quiet always, never intellectually critical so much I think..... rather into this internal thinking mode......aah...don't know...

Do you pursue him aggressively when he retreats at this point?

 

[Fluffywolf]

I don't get stressed much at all, and when I do I don't stay stressed for very long. I've been known to be evasive when stressed, but only if I also think I can tolerate being evasive without any bad consequences. When I've got something important to do and it stresses me out I just bite through it.

At the end of everyday I am without stress though.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

yes, totally. INTPs (and maybe some other types) seem to meta instinctively and in fact have trouble NOT meta-ing.

So while someone else asks me a simple question, I immediately step outside the situation and look at it from all different angles, trying to understand what is going on and how we ended up at this point; what the possibilities are; and where the mental flowchart says things will go next. If you can imagine how complicated this quickly gets, especially if you are a big-picture thinker and are pulling in past information, conversations, discussions, to inform you on what is happening now so you can figure out the best thing to do or say....? It becomes very complex very quickly, and confusing -- so silence is very likely.



Do you pursue him aggressively when he retreats at this point?

I really see him thinking .... but find it so frustrating that he doesn't share what he is thinking....I guess it is really this confusion of too much going on inside, too many sides being looked at.... I usually adore this....but.... I feel really bad if I have the feeling of being ignored, which is what I often feel when he falls silent.......yes, I rather pursue him aggressively, because I get angrier when he doesn't say something....and I know I shouldn't, because that makes everything a LOT WORSE. I know the best would be to talk when I am calm, and to address the issue in a calm manner, I guess.....

 

[Totenkindly]

I really see him thinking .... but find it so frustrating that he doesn't share what he is thinking....I guess it is really this confusion of too much going on inside, too many sides being looked at....

Think of it as a huge web, because his thoughts are not linear at this point, they are radial -- moving out in all directions like a spiderweb, with some points connected in multiple places and others not.

Now, how would you begin to articulate that web? Where would you start? Which path would you choose to pass through it, in order to make sense? Words are linear, like music -- you say one word or sing one note at a time, and time is a dimension, you move from beginning to end -- but what he sees in his head is likely a big visual web and just trying to work through it linearly will not convey it properly, he can only describe a bit of it at once.

And he probably wants to be careful and credit everything correctly. It's very hard if one is also upset or emotionally not at rest at the time, or feels like a mistake/inaccuracy in describing what is going on will hurt or anger someone else.

yes, I rather pursue him aggressively, because I get angrier when he doesn't say something....and I know I shouldn't, because that makes everything a LOT WORSE. I know the best would be to talk when I am calm, and to address the issue in a calm manner, I guess.....

it is really a sort of "power lock" -- where one pursues harder and harder and the other retreats more and more, and if you ever get him in a corner, it will probably become ugly.

Have you ever thought of specifically saying that you are willing to give him some time to think, but agree on a time together to reconvene? This might give him some space. The issue more is here his willingness to agree to discuss it, but you can make it clear that not talking about it doesn't work for you and will make it hard to maintain the relationship; it's just that, because you love him, you are willing to give him some space to think first, then meet at an agreed-upon time. Give him your expectations or basic thoughts up front, so he has time to think about them and process before being forced to share his own thoughts.

(Because of his retreating nature, he needs to have ownership of this decision rather than having it imposed on him, though.)

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Think of it as a huge web, because his thoughts are not linear at this point, they are radial -- moving out in all directions like a spiderweb, with some points connected in multiple places and others not.

Now, how would you begin to articulate that web? Where would you start? Which path would you choose to pass through it, in order to make sense? Words are linear, like music -- you say one word or sing one note at a time, and time is a dimension, you move from beginning to end -- but what he sees in his head is likely a big visual web and just trying to work through it linearly will not convey it properly, he can only describe a bit of it at once.

And he probably wants to be careful and credit everything correctly. It's very hard if one is also upset or emotionally not at rest at the time, or feels like a mistake/inaccuracy in describing what is going on will hurt or anger someone else.



it is really a sort of "power lock" -- where one pursues harder and harder and the other retreats more and more, and if you ever get him in a corner, it will probably become ugly.

Have you ever thought of specifically saying that you are willing to give him some time to think, but agree on a time together to reconvene? This might give him some space. The issue more is here his willingness to agree to discuss it, but you can make it clear that not talking about it doesn't work for you and will make it hard to maintain the relationship; it's just that, because you love him, you are willing to give him some space to think first, then meet at an agreed-upon time. Give him your expectations or basic thoughts up front, so he has time to think about them and process before being forced to share his own thoughts.

(Because of his retreating nature, he needs to have ownership of this decision rather than having it imposed on him, though.)

Thank you, this is really helpful..... I've thought of specifically saying that I am willing to give him some time to think, but I didn't say it at the moment when I was upset.... I think I will try this the next time this situation comes up. It's hard for me to postpone the solving of a conflict, but I think I have to meet him somewhere in the middle because forcing him to talk is really mean and doesn't work for him.... I guess I have to talk about it with him and maybe suggest a new way of solving conflict situations. I have often said that the relationship doesn't work this way for me, but it has never had any consequences on my side or his side ......
But thank you a lot for your insights and suggestions, this is really helpful.

 

[Salomé]

No. I behave like an INTP. Under stress.

I've noticed the males are much more conflict-averse/ passive than the females are. Still haven't really figured out why.

 

[Spamtar]

I act like a hostile/ruthless/antagonistic ENTJ when stressed. I totally kick ass at these times although I am happy it is short lived.

The only time I act like an ISFP is when I am drinking alcohol/smoking pot while on vacation. Sometimes the vacation itself without the mind altering substance is sufficient. Its not bad...in fact rather fun...as I find myself quiet the charmer and get vicarious enjoyment the pleasures others feel.

For most things, particularly day to day mundane inconsequential acts I tend to be mostly passive/conflict adverse on the outside. The reason is that it is all vanity and not worth the bother and prefer to be surrounded by harmony absent a matter of relevant consequence.

 

[Quinlan]

Do they start acting all awesome or something?

 

[Windigo]

I don't get stressed much at all, and when I do I don't stay stressed for very long. I've been known to be evasive when stressed, but only if I also think I can tolerate being evasive without any bad consequences. When I've got something important to do and it stresses me out I just bite through it.

At the end of everyday I am without stress though.

Jeeze! I'm jealous. Will you sell me your secret?


QUOTE=Halfjillhalfjack;1064456]Mh, maybe I'm mixing up some conceptions about ISFPs with INTPs....I am not sure...
What I mean is the tendency of my INTP (supposed) boyfriend to draw back into his shell during conflict. I mean the tendency to NOT argue (which is not typical for him otherwise, he knows how to defend himself otherwise)....., NOT defend himself but just fall dead silent. I don't even know if this is really typical of ISFPs...... and the not being able to express yourself during conflict, because of some internal thinking process going on.... not finding the right words to defend oneself, and not saying anything until the right words are found or you are being pressured.... I know I wrote something like this in another thread already. I'm sorry.[/QUOTE]

I tend to do the whole meta thinking thing AND talk out loud. Then it seems like I am psychoanalyzing instead of sympathizing. For me, emotions are a floodgate that will destroy everything in their path (this has to do with emotional abuse as a child).

I have an IsTP husband who doesn't know how to communicate at all during relationship stress. He has told me that he doesn't want to say anything he will regret, because the first thing that comes to mind is not necessarily what he feels or knows to be the truth.

Because I don't get offended easily, at first I tried to tell him that it was okay to be honest first (mistakenly thinking that words in the heat of the moment = a more honest answer). Fortunately I've learned that this is not the case. My husband says wildly outlandish things when he's furious. However I have learned to say my peace without accusations wait a few days and trust him to approach me with his point of few once he's sorted out all the random thoughts/emotions he's feeling.

I think that you might try asking your boyfriend how he would like to handle the stress and working on your own anger at him for "not behaving properly" in a fight.

I believe the two of you might just come out stronger on the other end.

 

[Windigo]

I don't get stressed much at all, and when I do I don't stay stressed for very long. I've been known to be evasive when stressed, but only if I also think I can tolerate being evasive without any bad consequences. When I've got something important to do and it stresses me out I just bite through it.

At the end of everyday I am without stress though.

Jeeze! I'm jealous. Will you sell me your secret?

Mh, maybe I'm mixing up some conceptions about ISFPs with INTPs....I am not sure...
What I mean is the tendency of my INTP (supposed) boyfriend to draw back into his shell during conflict. I mean the tendency to NOT argue (which is not typical for him otherwise, he knows how to defend himself otherwise)....., NOT defend himself but just fall dead silent. I don't even know if this is really typical of ISFPs...... and the not being able to express yourself during conflict, because of some internal thinking process going on.... not finding the right words to defend oneself, and not saying anything until the right words are found or you are being pressured.... I know I wrote something like this in another thread already. I'm sorry.

I tend to do the whole meta thinking thing AND talk out loud. Then it seems like I am psychoanalyzing instead of sympathizing. For me, emotions are a floodgate that will destroy everything in their path (this has to do with emotional abuse as a child).

I have an IsTP husband who doesn't know how to communicate at all during relationship stress. He has told me that he doesn't want to say anything he will regret, because the first thing that comes to mind is not necessarily what he feels or knows to be the truth.

Because I don't get offended easily, at first I tried to tell him that it was okay to be honest first (mistakenly thinking that words in the heat of the moment = a more honest answer). Fortunately I've learned that this is not the case. My husband says wildly outlandish things when he's furious. However I have learned to say my peace without accusations wait a few days and trust him to approach me with his point of few once he's sorted out all the random thoughts/emotions he's feeling.

I think that you might try asking your boyfriend how he would like to handle the stress and working on your own anger at him for "not behaving properly" in a fight.

I believe the two of you might just come out stronger on the other end.

 

[Orangey]

I find that if I retreat or have nothing to say in that type of interpersonal conflict situation, it is because I really don't have anything to say that might make things better. Whenever someone is directly emotional towards me (i.e., angry, disappointed, whatever) I go into a sort of internal panic and my mind races. I want to say the exact thing that will make it all go away or make things better RIGHT NOW, and so I might fall silent while running through all of the things in my mind that I could say and how the other person would most likely react to each. The pressure of wanting to fix it right then, at that moment, ironically adds to my inability to spit out what it is that I'm thinking, making the situation even worse as time passes. Then if it gets too bad, I start avoiding the issue.

For me at least (I don't know if this will help with the OP's particular SO), the thing that would help me most to ultimately resolve the issue and to be emotionally honest would be to simply calm down. If I'm being yelled at or otherwise emoted upon, I get overwhelmed and start to go into the racing thoughts/fix it now type of thinking (which, as I described, is paralyzing.) If you are calm, however, then I will be more at ease to say what is really on my mind or offer otherwise helpful communication.

Also, I think emotional honesty is an important thing to keep in mind. I don't know about your particular INTP, but if I'm pressed on the spot or feel pressed due to the emotional displays of my partner, then I am even less likely to realize (or communicate if I do realize) what I am actually feeling about the situation. And I suspect that a lot of the time that is actually what the other person wants to hear in the first place, but my natural reaction to conflict situations is not to examine what I feel, but rather to think about what can solve the issue. So this tendency, compounded with outside pressure, makes it difficult for other people to get an emotionally honest answer from me. I would sooner say what I think would solve the issue rather than what I really feel.

Unfortunately, I think this pisses people off because their assumption is that I want to work through the issue cooperatively with them, when in fact my assumption is always that I need to solve the issue MYSELF. I don't know why I assume that, but I just do. So another helpful thing to do would be to remind your INTP partner that you don't want them to solve the issue themselves, but would like to solve it together. I know that if someone gives me that type of reminder, then it causes me to check my own assumptions and ways of thinking about the situation, and makes me feel less like the onus is on me to solve everything.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and add the disclaimer that this is from my own personal experience, and may not be reflective of how other INTPs think. In fact, I may not be INTP at all/INTPs may not actually exist.

 

[Eric B]

If I'm correct, the question here seems to involve the shadow functions, since cognitively, the ISFP is all the INTP's eight functions in reverse.

I've been there at times, and it doesn't look like ISFP because of the fact that these "ISFP" functions are shadow for the INTP, so they are playing out very negatively, where for the ISFP, they are the normal ego functions. So it's just the same functions manifested; only in different contexts.

 

[Spin]

I know this is really old, but just thought I'd add something (since I just figured out how to put it into words in a related thread):

If your INTP is anything like me, he won't respond well to anger. If you do get angry, that's fine, but be sure to kindly ask for some time to cool down, and then later start a new conversation in which he knows that you will empathetically and rationally listen to his perspective. Being rational is SOOOO important to us INTPs. Logical thinking is the best way that we know how to access and understand the truth about the world, about the people we care about, about everything! Logical conversations are so beautiful. Unfortunately, the reverse is true too. My mind literally shuts down when someone won't listen to logic -- it's awful. All of my snarky comebacks, emotional pleas, and logical explanations just vanish, because (for some reason) if I don't think that my thoughts will truly be heard and understood, my brain refuses to put them into words, so I can't say them. I just have to sit in silence, wishing that I could figure out what to say, feeling anxious, helpless, frustrated, and sick to my stomach.

That's not completely accurate. I don't stay completely silent, but I usually only say one or two sentences for every few paragraphs that the other person says, and that makes me even more frustrated because I know that I didn't have the time or the serenity to say what I really meant and how I really felt. It's so important to INTPs to be completely honest, sincere, and 100% understood.

Eventually, if an aggressive argument goes on long enough, I just wish the conversation was over so I could escape somewhere more peaceful. At that point, silence becomes an escape. It's the only way that a peaceful person can non-confrontationally leave the conversation.

To recap: if I get into an aggressive and illogical argument, I can't think of what to say, because anything that I say will be based on logic. If the other person isn't going to listen to logic, what's the point of me saying anything? Once I know where the other person is coming from, I just want to be understood so that we can figure out how we can both compromise and be happy. Of course, it doesn't occur to me to say this in the middle of an argument because I often convince myself that everything is somehow my fault and that I deserve the other person's wrath. (I suppose that's the P and the F in me being a little bit too flexible.)

I hope this helps!

 

[Eric B]

Just curious; so you shut down, but do you ever blow up, if the other person's emotional responses keep up and make you feel threatened?
(I tend to cram up at first, but then this looks like I'm wishy-washy, or just int he wrong, so if I feel really threatened, then all I can do is lash back out).