Dexter

[clairebbbear]

Hi everyone

Massive Dexter fan here, and I must admit I joined this board just to participate in this discussion, since I've been trying to type the characters for a while. I'm still fairly new to this typing thing so some of the arguments go over my head, but I'm willing to learn.

Thank you similutedworld for your post - awesome - but it also raised a few questions for me.

Firstly, I find it interesting that so many of the PD characters are typed as Ns - Doakes, Deb, Harry, Maria, Masuka and Dexter himself. The last three I agree with completely, but I'm not so sure about the first three. Simply because, from what I've read, most police officers are Ss. But perhaps its their iNtuition that has elevated these characters from typically S uniformed positions to the more N-like detective work.

Doakes is the main one I'm thinking about. Can someone tell me why he wouldn't be ISTP? Because his preferred mode - lone wolf, not bound by convention, free to take risks - seems like classic SP to me. Plus, I would imagine that a Black Ops operator, working mostly on his own like he did, would basically describe an ISTP. He doesn't seem meticulous enough to be INTJ, for mine. Sure, he certainly uses his intuition in suspecting Dexter as a bad guy, but it's based on his own experiences - what he has observed in Black Ops - not some NT-like reasoning of "research shows this is what bad guys are like".

On the other hand, if Deb is an S she'd have to be ESFJ, because the E, F and J are all obvious with her. And I can't see her as an ESFJ - not traditional enough - not really the motherly, dinner-party-organiser type. Plus, it's probably her N-ness that enables Maria to eventually (grudgingly) respect her as a detective. As an NT myself (like Maria), I reserve particular snobbery towards Ss who miss my intellectual point. . But I do think Deb might be losing some of her Judging nature, especially in season 3 with her relationship with Anton. (For Dexter's sake, he'd have to hope she becomes a bit more P or else she may turn him into a punching bag when she finds out Rudy was his brother.)

Plus, I still think Dexter is INTJ. He may be becoming more INFJ, but the majority of his decisions, including the decisions about whom he is going to kill, are made using T, not F. The times when he's exercised F in decision-making (whacking Paul with skillet, headbutting Doakes, doing risky stuff with Lila, stabbing Hicks when he insulted Rita) have been exceptions, not norms for him. His natural sociopathic side - his Dark Passenger - may be more F, but he is able to control that part of him mostly.

Finally, been trying to type a couple of the minor season 3 characters.

I'm thinking Ellen Wolf as an ENTP - typical defence lawyer, flexible, can take a hard-arse approach when needed, doesn't particularly care whether her clients are innocent or not, just whether she can succeed in her defence of them. She also displays what could be seen as "masculine" type tendencies regarding her sexual relationships. But she has strong F characteristics, as shown by her willingness to help others, so she'd be borderline ENFP.

Sylvia - ESFJ? I think she's pretty similar to Rita - which explains why they get on - but more extraverted (would need to be in her job).

Thoughts?

 

[Ivy]

I think I agree about Doakes as an ISTP. But Deb, I'm not sure where you're seeing obvious J. I see her as a classic SP, probably ESFP (maybe T). Remember when she was living with Dexter after the exciting season 1 finale? They had all the classic "Odd Couple" J vs P conflicts, like her leaving out the OJ and him putting it away with exasperation.

 

[clairebbbear]

I think I agree about Doakes as an ISTP. But Deb, I'm not sure where you're seeing obvious J. I see her as a classic SP, probably ESFP (maybe T). Remember when she was living with Dexter after the exciting season 1 finale? They had all the classic "Odd Couple" J vs P conflicts, like her leaving out the OJ and him putting it away with exasperation.

I just went along with the J diagnosis for Deb because of the ENFJ typing from the previous poster.

I can see both J and P in her, TBH. P for the untidiness and impulsiveness (maybe the swearing too). But J for her lack of flexibility and "black and white" nature. She's also pretty dogged and single-minded once she makes her mind up about something.

I also think that most cops would be J -that's the nature of the job. Harry was, I think, and I would expect Deb to inherit that from him at least. In contrast, the show seems to depict (at least in season 3 anyway) Angel and Quinn as less succesful cops because of their P-ness. Certainly there were times where Quinn made mistakes because he wasn't decisive enough.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hi everyone

Massive Dexter fan here, and I must admit I joined this board just to participate in this discussion, since I've been trying to type the characters for a while. I'm still fairly new to this typing thing so some of the arguments go over my head, but I'm willing to learn.

Thank you similutedworld for your post - awesome - but it also raised a few questions for me.

Firstly, I find it interesting that so many of the PD characters are typed as Ns - Doakes, Deb, Harry, Maria, Masuka and Dexter himself. The last three I agree with completely, but I'm not so sure about the first three. Simply because, from what I've read, most police officers are Ss. But perhaps its their iNtuition that has elevated these characters from typically S uniformed positions to the more N-like detective work.

I didn't type Masuka as N; I said he was ESTP. I wrote this several months ago when I first joined the forum and it was one of my first exercises in typing fictional characters. When I started I tended to overestimate the frequency of N characters, so I'll reconsider a few of these.

I'm still pretty certain that Maria is ENTJ, but Deb could possibly be ESFJ. She's obviously ExFJ, and traditional career advancement and "success" seem very important to her. She also gets really sensitive over traditions/holidays like Harry's birthday and so on, so ESFJ is possible, but ENFJ is still a decent guess. She seems fairly borderline between the two.

But I'm not budging on Harry. Classic INFJ guilt complex.

Doakes is the main one I'm thinking about. Can someone tell me why he wouldn't be ISTP? Because his preferred mode - lone wolf, not bound by convention, free to take risks - seems like classic SP to me. Plus, I would imagine that a Black Ops operator, working mostly on his own like he did, would basically describe an ISTP. He doesn't seem meticulous enough to be INTJ, for mine. Sure, he certainly uses his intuition in suspecting Dexter as a bad guy, but it's based on his own experiences - what he has observed in Black Ops - not some NT-like reasoning of "research shows this is what bad guys are like".

You and Ivy are probably right; this is a compelling argument. I still occasionally have trouble telling the difference between ISTP and INTJ in certain people, and we don't get a lot of insight into the inner workings of Doakes' mind...but looking back on what I wrote before and what you have to say about it now, ISTP does seem a better fit for Doakes...I hereby amend my position on that.

On the other hand, if Deb is an S she'd have to be ESFJ, because the E, F and J are all obvious with her. And I can't see her as an ESFJ - not traditional enough - not really the motherly, dinner-party-organiser type. Plus, it's probably her N-ness that enables Maria to eventually (grudgingly) respect her as a detective. As an NT myself (like Maria), I reserve particular snobbery towards Ss who miss my intellectual point. . But I do think Deb might be losing some of her Judging nature, especially in season 3 with her relationship with Anton. (For Dexter's sake, he'd have to hope she becomes a bit more P or else she may turn him into a punching bag when she finds out Rudy was his brother.)

See above; ESFJs aren't all motherly or dinner-party-organizing. In fact, ENFJs tend to really like organizing social events where they can bring different combinations of people from different social groups together and find ways to help them help themselves and each other. I'm still slightly in favor of ENFJ for Deb, but she's not that far from ESFJ.

Plus, I still think Dexter is INTJ. He may be becoming more INFJ, but the majority of his decisions, including the decisions about whom he is going to kill, are made using T, not F. The times when he's exercised F in decision-making (whacking Paul with skillet, headbutting Doakes, doing risky stuff with Lila, stabbing Hicks when he insulted Rita) have been exceptions, not norms for him. His natural sociopathic side - his Dark Passenger - may be more F, but he is able to control that part of him mostly.

Agreed. I haven't read the books, so no comment on them, but in the series he's strongly INTJ.

Finally, been trying to type a couple of the minor season 3 characters.

I'm thinking Ellen Wolf as an ENTP - typical defence lawyer, flexible, can take a hard-arse approach when needed, doesn't particularly care whether her clients are innocent or not, just whether she can succeed in her defence of them. She also displays what could be seen as "masculine" type tendencies regarding her sexual relationships. But she has strong F characteristics, as shown by her willingness to help others, so she'd be borderline ENFP.\

Sylvia - ESFJ? I think she's pretty similar to Rita - which explains why they get on - but more extraverted (would need to be in her job).

Thoughts?

Yeah ENTP is pretty solid for Ellen Wolf. Willingness to help others doesn't make her an F; I don't think she's very close to ENFP at all. I get a strong T vibe from her.

ESFJ or ISFJ is probably good for Sylvia. We don't get to see much of her, but that seems fair.

So to be clear, you said you saw obvious N in Masuka...what do you think he would be, a really maladjusted ENFP? I originally wrote ESTP for him but upon reconsidering, I think he might actually be ESFP. Where does the N come from, though?

 

[clairebbbear]

Thanks Simulatedworld.

Actually, I think it was a mistake on my part to think you had typed Masuka as N. I must have been confused or something.

I think for a while I had Masuka as N simply because he's a scientist and seems to handle the theoretical well. I might have had him as INTP (what I am) because his weirdness and propensity for blurting out inappropriate things reminded me of myself LOL. But now I think he's too social to be an I. And he's not ENTP - he's not the visionary leader thing.

Yeah, I'm thinking S now for Masuka. ESFP or ESTP. Leaning towards the latter because of his lack of tact and sensitivity towards others.

And Ellen's willingness to help others refers to her setting up funds for defendents etc - the good stuff that Dexter found out about when he was pondering whether to kill her. That showed some Idealist tendencies, I think.

 

[clairebbbear]

And to add - based on the interviews I've seen with them, I'd describe Michael C Hall as a definite INFP. He certainly seems to have a P sensibility when talking about his character in relative terms, and the idea that, like Dexter, all of us are acting in some ways. Plus he's described himself as both messy and shy at various times.

Jennifer Carpenter I'll take a stab (heh!) on ENFJ, but I'm not really sure about the N or the J with her.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

Showtime-Dexter the serial killer

Anyone watch this series on showtime?

The main character is INTJ. I don't relate 100%, but there is enough commonality that I enjoy.

Written really intelligently with much hidden symbolism.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Anyone watch this series on showtime?

The main character is INTJ. I don't relate 100%, but there is enough commonality that I enjoy.

Written really intelligently with much hidden symbolism.

I like it. I don't care what Dexter's type is, other than diabolical.

 

[violet_crown]

I had always pegged him as an ISTJ. He's just so damned meticulous.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

I had always pegged him as an ISTJ. He's just so damned meticulous.

I thought the meticulousness was a learned behavior that his dad artificially instilled in him.

He is always inside his head thinking.

This season premier episode, he didn't notice his sister changed her hair style for the first time in 20 years or so.

 

[Ivy]

I think he's INFJ. But there's already a thread for that.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

In the series, it kind of discredits Dexter to say he had to be an F, in order to have any feelings at all. Even INTJs, are capable of that at times. Having emotions on rare occasion wouldn't make him an INFJ. Merely, an INTJ that began development of his feeling function. Which does happen for NTs later in life.

Yet, in the books Dexter does come off like a stunted INFJ, as Haphazard suggested.

+1

INTJ

At some point though, whether Dexter or House, you have to realize that this is a fictional character that can have contradictory traits.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

I think he's INFJ. But there's already a thread for that.

Ahh yeah, feel free to merge.

 

[Kasper]

Merged.

 

[Valuable_Money]

ENTP, and I would argue that mandark is INTJ, and DeeDe is ESFP

 

[Baltar]

Hmm....

Ok, this was written after having seen up through 3x06.

Dexter--At first, ridiculously INTJ. Almost a caricature of INTJ--a brilliant, creative and rational thinker whose very existence is dependent upon introverting his thoughts--cool, calculated, methodical, tidy to the point of OCD, and at times emotionally retarded. In fact, if you want to understand the INTJ type this is the perfect character for it. The entire series is basically about Dexter's development from a total INTJ into more of an INFJ.

Deb--ENFJ. Can be pushy and a bit stubborn (J), but ultimately lives to serve others in a grand, far-reaching kind of way (NF) and is extremely extraverted to the point of sometimes being obnoxious, contradicting her F nature. As Dexter points out in the very first episode, she is "the only one that really loves [him.]" She's a bit prone to simply declaring (J) what's best for others (E) and then refusing to change her mind, but usually has honest and good intentions (F), and is typically right in these predictions--classic ENFJ.

Rita--ISFJ. Caring, traditionalist, selfless, loving mother type who finds her purpose in providing for the specific (S) needs of others (F) in an organized and consistent way (J). She tends to be rather private and takes time to let others in (I), but possesses an extremely high sense of duty toward her loved ones and can always be depended upon in others' times of need. ISFJs often have problems with being assertive or sticking up for their own abilities even when they know they deserve to be recognized--as such, they are sometimes under-appreciated. This leads to Rita's ongoing struggle to learn these assertive social skills throughout the series.

Harry--INFJ? This one is tough, but I think it makes sense that Deb grew up so much like her father--as NFs, they are drawn toward service to the community (Harry's personal bitterness over various guilty felons who went free leads him to justify his cultivation of Dexter's serial killing tendencies to himself by declaring that he is "channeling [Dexter's urge to kill] for good the greater good"--a classic NF justification.) Seems to make this judgment rather quickly when he discovers his foster son's true nature, and then is very methodical in devising (N) and carrying out plans (J) to train Dexter to keep his true self a secret. INFJs often fantasize about "getting back at" those who they see as taking advantage of the weak or downtrodden, and are often champions of "the little guy." When he finally walks in on Dexter mutilating a victim, he is so overwhelmed with guilt at what he has created (F) that he commits suicide. And all the while his concern for Dexter's well-being is one of his biggest motivations (F), but we're left to decide for ourselves just how much he was driven by desire for revenge/vindication of his own failures. Very interesting character.

LaGuerta--Easily ENTJ. A strong, opinionated and outwardly focused (E) rational thinker not particularly concerned with the feelings of others (T) who's not afraid to use unconventional (and sometimes arguably unethical) means (N) in her own meticulously crafted plans (J) to advance her career.

Doakes--INTJ; the NTJ similarities explain why he and LaGuerta were first attracted to each other, and also why their relationship failed. Another strong rational thinker (T) who ignores conventions in creating (N) and methodically executing (J) his own plans without regard to the established methods (N), rather than enforcing traditional rules (as the ESTJ tends to do) and is often excessively controlling, blunt and assertive (J) with little to no regard for others' feelings (T.) This also explains why Doakes sees through Dexter's social mask so easily--INTJs are known for their lack of social interaction (I) and terrible emotional intelligence--and as much as they hate each other, these two are very similar.

Angel--ESFP, as the type that lives most fundamentally for the present-moment, tangible experiences of right now (SP), Angel is friendly and loves to party (E)--he is constantly out at the bar, trying to pick up women, but is driven by a very deep desire to help and serve the specific needs (SF) of his coworkers, and is often guilt-ridden when he fails. He feels intense guilt over the failure of his marriage (F) and often gives in too easily to his impulses and the opinions of others (this P-flexibility allows LaGuerta's assertive ENTJ influence to impact his professional decisions, for instance.)

Masuka--ESTP, fundamentally an outspoken performer who has a deep need for the approval of his peers. As an SP, he is over-the-top, persuasive (maybe not as much as he thinks), and sometimes downright obnoxious. In a never-ending attempt to garner attention and entertain his "audience", he is constantly cracking some ridiculous and often offensive joke but seems too oblivious to the feelings and sentiments of others to notice that it's not always appreciated. I like how in season 3 he grows into a real dynamic character instead of just continuing to be a stereotype.

Lundy--ENFP-- He is driven by a desire to "fight evil" (a very NF characteristic) and feels compelled to do service to the world through his work. He is also generally warm, compassionate and open to new leads and ideas, but can wear himself a little thin through his constant efforts to save the world. These qualities, combined with his brilliant intuition for criminal investigation, catch Deb off guard and lead her to falling in love with him. She eventually becomes disinterested as his strong P function leads him to "spread his love around" a lot (sooo NFP!) and often precludes him from making serious long-term commitments.

Lila--ESTP, attention-craving, present-focused concrete thinker (S) who ignores traditional rules and seems to thrive on acting on impulse (P), Lila is highly proficient at manipulating others (E) for rational self-gain, and has little concern for the feelings of others (T).

Paul--ESTJ, overbearing macho type, but feels a sense of duty to uphold tradition (SJ), as evidenced by his one redeeming quality: his commitment to helping raise his children as well as he can after his initial release from prison.

Miguel (new character in season 3)--ENFJ, he is a brilliant, creative and association-oriented thinker (N), which combines with his F function to place him in the NF temperament--he is drawn to service the community (F) in an outwardly focused (E) and methodical (J) manner. As the season progresses his NFJ desire to punish the wicked for the greater good of mankind begins to overtake his entire moral worldview.

Joey (new character in season 3)--ISFP, seems to be a pretty concrete thinker (S) who's not afraid to switch up his approach and step outside the accepted method (P). Often acts on impulses and gut feelings. Also seems to have a particular gift with understanding the emotions and needs of others, but it has been suggested by Yuki that he is more self-serving than he appears to be. May later change to ISTP after more data. Interestingly, he has only one trait (F) in common with Deb, but her flair for intuitive planning (NJ) seems to reflect and compliment his impulsive SP behavior and disregard for rules and regulations.

Ramón (new character in season 3)--ESTP, feels a strong sense of duty to avenge his brother's death but is very short-sighted and can't seem to keep his anger and aggression in check. Often overbearing, controlling and insensitive (T) as he forces himself into the investigation, feeling increasingly helpless to do anything about it. Seems to believe he can simply convince the Miami PD to do a better job of finding Freebo--always the salesman.

Anton (new character in season 3)--ENTP, smooth and confident smart ass (hence the song he plays for her at the bar) who can't help but push the limits (i.e. lighting the joint when Deb threatens to arrest him.) Nonetheless he is impressed by her spirit and intrigued by her conviction, and begins to open up to her after their first unfortunately negative run-in.

Yuki (new character in season 3)--Not much data yet, seems pretty ENTx in her articulate, sardonic style of speech. We'll see what happens with her.

Rita's Mother--Stereotypical ESTJ female--traditional, authoritarian, stern and even sometimes cold (T), exceedingly controlling and easily offended when her value system is challenged, especially by one seen as "below" her level of authority.

Interesting that I only profiled 17 characters and came out with 11 different types as a result. I suspect that good character interaction results at least partially from having a wide variety of character types at work.

(By amusing coincidence Joey (ISFP) and Ramón (ESTP) came out right next to each other in the list. And who's the consummate SP?? Why, none other than Joey Ramone, of course!)

The missing types seem to be:

ISTJ--I'm sure there's some minor character that's ISTJ and isn't noticed, for just that reason.
ESFJ--Eh, maybe that lady at work that Dexter gives donuts to?
ISTP--Not sure if such a character will come up; Joey may turn out to be one after all.
INTP--Interesting that there's not one on the Miami PD staff...could be a good addition for future seasons, maybe a rival blood spatter analyst?
INFP--Would probably play some kind of supportive character role as like...I dunno, a girl whose life Dexter accidentally saves after killing her asshole overbearing ESTJ boyfriend?? One can only hope ^_^

Dexter-INTJ becoming more balanced with Fness.

Deb-ESFJ. Family, Tradition oriented, concerned with her place in the heirarchy. A little atypical for her type with the cussing and the sleeping around well into her thirties. Not bright enough to be N. At least ESFx.

Rita-I agree with your analysis. At least ISFx.

Harry-I used to think XSTJ, but I was waaayyyy of base. INFJ probably.

LaGuerta-yeah, ENTJ. She has that Machiavellian but with mostly good intentions thing I have seen in my mom-another female ENTJ. Also, ENTJs, like LaGuerta seem to be fairly quiet as far as Es go when not interacting with someone to execute one of their schemes.

Doakes-no way, dude, not INTJ. INTJs don't go blurting what they are really thinking in most setting like Doakes does, they start plotting what do about it first usually. Perceptive, unconventional(N), ENFJ?

Angel-ESFP or not very bright ENFP. NFs are often into new age woo woo like him. Also, a lot of Journalists are ENFPs. There is a big overlap between that gig and detective duties-chatting up people for information about motives and other behind the scenes things.

Lundy-ENFP-I agree with your analysis.

Lila-ESTP-I agree with your analysis.

Paul-I mostly agree-at least ESTx. Don't most ESTJs outgrow the obnoxious drunk asshole thing a little earlier than ESTPs?

Miguel-ENFJ-I agree with your analysis.

Ramon-ESTP-again I agree with your analysis.

Anton-tougher. artistic flair, smooth, envelope pushing wiseass. I see a fork in the road-ESTP, ESFP, ENTP.

Yuki-ENTx does seem like a good tentative stance from what little we have
seen.

Rita's mom-I see the same issues there-authoritarian, controlling, cold. ESTJ, at least ExTJ.

How off base am I?

 

[Ivy]

I see Dexter as an INFJ who has closed his emotional self off. What appears to be T is really his defense mechanism. He operates based on a set of ethical standards which are unapologetically subjective, and of which he is pretty certain.

 

[Nocapszy]

well, i just watched the entire series and i have no idea why anyone everyone thinks he's an N.

why?
i don't get it.
he makes a few intuitive insights [like 2 per season...], but as i remember, they are derived entirely from his surroundings, and for the sole purpose of accommodating them.
i.e. knowing where to go to save Deb when she got grabbed up by Rudy.
i don't remember which episodes they were in so i have an excuse to watch the whole series again

anyway, i'm absolutely convinced of ISTJ.
i don't even see how there's a question.

i know you guys like to think that the S_Js are all non-risk takers by virtue of security-blanket Si, and that we can't think of Dexter as an S_J accordingly, but it's just not the case.

actually, Thinking is more security oriented than either Sensing faculty.
measures of care and precision [both risk-reducing actions] are taken solely by Judging faculties - Feeling tends not to yield especially reliable results, at least where precision is concerned [care on the other hand...], often being superstitious or overwhelmed by irrelevant information its user can't [or refuses to] remove from the equation.

Sensing and iNtuition, by contrast usually generate more situations wherein risk is inevitable, or simply require the individual to take a risk.

when a perception faculty plays the lead in one's psychological habits [dexter, being an undisputed I__J type, with perception a favorite of his] the compulsion to collect data is high.
obviously... if it weren't, then that means something else leads one's psychology.

this lust for information [be it intellectual, or not... often speaking about information gathering people think that only reflects academic curiosity, but it's not in the case of typology] causes the individual to deny themselves the confidence of their judgements [those risk-reducing judgements] in search of more.

the drug user who wants to see just how many pills he can take.
the musician who wants to see how it would sound if he added the next harmony.
the writer who gets lost in his own stories.
the killer who wants to see blood as often as he can.

these are all the profiles of "non-risk taking" S_Js.
the last one is dexter's profile.

he wants to see blood.
he is compelled. and instead of wanting to experience variety as is often the habit of the Se type, dexter just wants to perceive blood and all that blood is.

very simple.
very ISTJ.

we can't rule out ISTJ just because of how dangerous the lust for his particular perception is.

and how do you explain the persistent fantasies of Dexter arguing/talking with Harry?
when dexter's code, derived via Te* is in question, he grapples with it in a concrete way: a discussion with ol' Harry. a heart to heart between son n' pop.
rather than by some abstraction [usually resulting in bending of the rules, due to the inevitably ambiguous nature of language], dexter deals with these things concretely.

by the way, that's the reason INTJs are said to have the freedom, psychologically speaking, that ISTJs don't have when it comes to breaking the rules or defying authority etc.
in that case, it's implicit vs. explicit.

*oriented to Harry's methods and not his sense of ethics for keeping Dexter's bloodlust under [plastic] wraps, unchanged, yet always challenged by the environmental demands and Dexter's own ambitions.

but do go on. impress me with a case proving INTJ/INFJ.

 

[redacted]

yeah i agree with ISTJ.

lol, I saw that nocap had the last post, so I was wondering if he was going to agree with me as I read through the rest of the posts.

 

[Venom]

one more for ISTJ.

--He is a functioning Asperger when they do the flashbacks to childhood (check for S)
--He always talks about how his dream is to be normal (SJ)

ISTJ