Developing Tertiary and Inferior Functions

[Jack Flak]

Well, for ENTJs is Fi-Se, so I can't see how it's possible that it's Si-Fe for INTPs

It's all a bunch of hogwash anyway, but here are the supposed function orders for INTP.

MBTT: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
Socionics: Ni-Te-Si-Fe
Me: Intuition/Thinking/...

 

[FDG]

It's all a bunch of hogwash anyway, but here are the supposed function orders for INTP.

MBTT: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
Socionics: Ni-Te-Si-Fe
Me: Intuition/Thinking/...

Allright, I understand now; I personally think that what MBTI describes as "tertiary" and "inferior" functions are, in socionics, the "suggestive" (fifth) and "hidden agenda" (6th) ones - I understand how MBTI differentiates between introverts and extraverts even in this setting, but I personally think it's logically and practically unsound to do so...

 

[cascadeco]

Yeah, I think function order development is kind of stupid, as far as the theory goes, and everyone of the same type developing in the same way.

But whatever. I think my Ti is utilized well (I think I developed that in my early to mid 20's, and actually the Fe might have come after that), and I think my Se is good. I may actually put a higher *value* on Se in the present moment, even though function-wise, I may utilize Ti more. I also think my Fi is fairly high when it isn't 'supposed' to be (right up there with Fe), and maybe Ne (but I'm not sure I understand Ne as a function necessarily...I might just think I use Ne, when really I don't utilize it much at all. That's where it is probably hard to be objective when analyzing yourself. And, these things tend to be relative anyway - more useful when comparing yourself to others who definitely use a certain function, to ascertain whether you use a certain function much, or not).

How have they affected my personality and interaction with the world? Well, I guess I've always been one who wants to strive for balance and not missing out on key perspectives or certain facets of life. So I actively try to branch out, and I see value in both T/F, and N/S. ;-) I take bits and pieces of each, I think, and I try not to ignore certain pieces of data/perspectives - which I'll call the dichotomies. I think it's made my life much richer and helped with communication and relationships (but to be clear, in real life I don't really think in terms of functions when I say all of this -- I'm never thinking, 'Oh, I need to strive to be more S' -- again, it's just all about balance with me, and not necessarily sticking to my comfort zone).

 

[INA]

Te is pretty well developed, so much so that I've tested as ENTJ in the past. Twas not by conscious effort but by necessity/stress, so I'm not in a position to write a how-to guide.

 

[King sns]

Te is pretty well developed, so much so that I've tested as ENTJ in the past. Twas not by conscious effort but by necessity/stress, so I'm not in a position to write a how-to guide.

Yea, stress was a Te breeder for me, too.

 

[bronte]

I just did the test that Ygolo suggested - interesting it suggested that I am an enfp - I dont really relate to that - I dont think I will ever have that extravert confidence 'easiness' with other people though i admire it hugely - but I do have to do this at work which is why perhaps i scored like this - once I get home though I take off the enfp work gear and get into my infp pyjamas
Test result
Si,Se
You notice this process and enjoy when others use it but only occassionally find yourself engaging in it. You may marvel at others who do it very well. It doesn't appear useful to you personally and can annoy you if others use it too much.

Ti,Te
You value this process as a helpful aid, even if you do not engage it that often. You trust it contributes to life, particularly when done by others who do the process well. You might recruit others to help you do this process for you.

Ni,Fi,Fe
You actively use this process in your daily life as a useful tool or helpful aid. You could live without it but use definitely contributes to the what you do and who you are. You can work with others using this process, usually in a support role.

Ne
You create value, aid others and get things done everyday using this process. You function well here, know all the ins and outs, strengths and limits of this process. You have made this process your own, something personal and unique to you.

 

[Alpha Prime]

My tertiary function is orange juice. It helps give me vitamin C.

Cool, is that what jumpstarts you?

According to the results from one of the tests, My Si is fairly well developed.

I need to work on my Fe, however-- though I think it has gotten stronger as well. Leaving Se, as what needs development.

Where did you find this test?

I'm pretty sure these functions develop all on their own without any conscious effort on our part,
like your adult teeth pushing your baby teeth out.
It happens around a certain predictable age.

Tertiary begins to develop @ age 25.
Inferior begins @ age 50.

Crap! You just turned me into a 50-year old. Talk about living life in the fast lane . Not that I mind running around looking for my teeth, but everything I develop will be done so, consciously.

How is Se considered? Dancing? Having fun? Playing sports? Being able to react in the moment to stimuli? Understanding the external world?

It all boils down to "being completely in the environment/moment". The things you listed are related, but developing your Se can be taken further. Like:

• Can you tell the eye colours of all your exes?
• Do you notice if your friend's clothes match? Do their textures match? What does that say about them?
• Do you notice slight changes in the lighting in your environment? What is your favourite light-setting?
• Can you tell people's mood just from the sound of their voice on the phone?
• Do you consciously notice all the objects when you enter a friend's house for the first time? - What does their presence, location, condition tell you about the person?

 

[FDG]

Very nice pointers, Alpha, thank you very much.

• Can you tell the eye colours of all your exes?
• Do you notice if your friend's clothes match? Do their textures match? What does that say about them?
• Do you notice slight changes in the lighting in your environment? What is your favourite light-setting?
• Can you tell people's mood just from the sound of their voice on the phone?
• Do you consciously notice all the objects when you enter a friend's house for the first time? - What does their presence, location, condition tell you about the person?

1) yes, of course
2) generally not, unless there is a very obvious mismatch
3) yes, I like natural light best, artificial lights have a negative effect on my concentration level
4) somewhat, but really not confident in it
5) yes, I notice them easily, but I have no clue about what they could tell me about the person

 

[INTJMom]

...
but everything I develop will be done so, consciously.
...

Mind if I tease you?


Control freak!

 

[Alpha Prime]

Very nice pointers, Alpha, thank you very much.

You are quite welcome, FDG.

Mind if I tease you?


Control freak!

Hey, are you trying to pick up on me? Cuz, I swear I have this milf-thing going on!

 

[Blackmail!]

If anything, my Si's gotten shot to hell while Fe's gotten slightly better.

In other words, function order is bunk and so is "Development of functions."

Maybe this means you're a disgruntled, chronically unhappy/unsuccessful ENTP? :yim_phbbbbt:

However, considering your posts here, I fail to see the slightest trace of Fe within you, but I'm probably wrong.

 

[Blackmail!]

Anyway.

As Whatever pointed, developping my tertiary Fe was, at first contact, a necessity. I just needed to be less immature and unsufferable, so I could get more easily accepted by most people. And furthermore, it also allowed me to spend less energy coping with stress and societal norms (I think norms and bureaucracy are never really understood by ENTPs, and hence they often represent a very big issue for us).

So, I'd say this function first developped as a tool, from a very utilitarian point of view.

---

But then, I'd say that in my late teens, some (tragic) personal events forced my tertiary to evolve more quickly than expected. This was a true revolution for me, when you suddenly become conscious of everything you missed so far.

And by now, my Fe is supposed to be excellent (almost on a par with my Ti), according to the cognitive tests and my close friends (who are more concerned than mere tests, aren't they?).

And here is the curious part: because as I said earlier, my Fe was first rather utilitarian, but now, well... Now I'd say I'm beginning to feel a real empathy towards people, even if I can't understand or justify why. It's not faked or forced anymore. It just comes more naturally than in my memories.
And what's even stranger, is the fact that the more I use this Fe, the more confortable and confident I get, the more I feel "like a responsible adult" (although a very weird one, nonetheless ).

For me, my tertiary Fe manifests itself like a spontaneous drive to help people wherever I sense that this help might be needed. I'm more aware of what's going on around me, and can now react within a split second. I'm more patient and more tolerant than ever (1), and feel more at ease when I have to display my emotions in public. I've learned not to repress them any more, or almost.

Again, it doesn't mean I've accepted societal norms, since I'm still very awkward with them: however high my Fe could be, I do not think I will ever use it like a natural Dom or secondary user.
Because when I use my Fe, it's almost in a childish way, in a very pure form, thus I think I may paradoxally look more sincere than they are (2).

And while speaking of them, I'd also say that my communication skill with children greatly improved. 15 years ago, let's say it wasn't so easy to be around them.

I'll conclude by saying that as a university lecturer who cares a great deal about the students he's responsible for (especially during their thesis), my tertiary has eventually become an essential function to keep my audience captivated, motivated or simply entertained!

---

(1) Well, not always when the subject is purely academic.

(2) Perhaps that could explain why the theory says that the older we get, the more visible our tertiary is when we superficially deal with people?
In the same way, my father, who is a Dom-Fe user (ENFJ), looks more and more like a very well-grounded, stable, rational intellectual [Se-Ti], even if I know that his true nature is rather very seductive and quite temperamental. He was one of the leaders of the maoist movement during the may 68 events in France; a rather wild youth, isn't it!

 

[nightning]

Those of you who have developed these functions, how do you believe their growth has affected your perception/interaction of the world?

You can take them very far indeed... and it's not just limited to tertiary and inferior... you can equally work on the shadows.

I've also noticed in terms of development... you can get a better (or I should say, a more complete) grasp of your tertiary function than your inferior. For me, my use of Se is "trained" but only in certain aspects.

There's two main aspect to Se awareness: detection and discrimination. I'm quite good at detecting and locating objects if I put my mind to it. But discrimination (e.g. telling something is different... focusing on all the details) I do very poorly on.

 

[Jack Flak]

Maybe this means you're a disgruntled, chronically unhappy/unsuccessful ENTP? :yim_phbbbbt:

However, considering your posts here, I fail to see the slightest trace of Fe within you, but I'm probably wrong.

Or maybe, I'm tired enough of dealing with pompous f's like you without a shred of independent creative thought that I fail to see the benefit of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Little Linguist]

Hell, I'd really love to be able to develop my Te even more (or Si for that matter). Are there really ways in which you can develop it actively? Or does it just come with time and experience?