[INTJ] Common INTJ Issues

[Coriolis]

i totally share your thoughts, and most of your situation,
i am not so well adapted as you and i find this to be somewhat difficult at my job, not the interacting part, but more the "i am exposed to their stupid conversations" part and find it difficult sometimes not to mentally roll my eyes at something people say.

Agreed. My choice of profession and work enviroment goes a long way to mitigate this sort of distraction, but then it comes out all the more starkly in other settings. The older I get, the less willing I am to bother with such situations/people. This would be contradictory to theories of type which suggest we get better and more comfortable with our less preferred functions as we get older.

 

[Aesthete]

Out of curiosity, have any of you tried to prove your abilities (or, as I see it, assert you dominance) throughout school by getting the best marks in the class (especially in classes such as science (in the general sense))? Just curious if my INTJs case is singular or quite common.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Out of curiosity, have any of you tried to prove your abilities (or, as I see it, assert you dominance) throughout school by getting the best marks in the class (especially in classes such as science (in the general sense))? Just curious if my INTJs case is singular or quite common.

I didn't. I was the classic B+ student who didn't work that hard for As. I'm sure that if I judged my worth on grades, I would have done much better.

 

[Coriolis]

Out of curiosity, have any of you tried to prove your abilities (or, as I see it, assert you dominance) throughout school by getting the best marks in the class (especially in classes such as science (in the general sense))? Just curious if my INTJs case is singular or quite common.

I always tried to do as well as possible in school, but more to prove my abilities to myself than to prove anything to others. Marks alone were never enough, though. I had to do projects and reports up to my own standards, which were often more demanding than the actual assignments, and be productive at my chosen hobbies and extracurricular activities. This was motivated more by the desire to gain useful knowledge and develop useful skills than any desire to show up others, though perhaps it had that side effect.

 

[Scheherezade]

Out of curiosity, have any of you tried to prove your abilities (or, as I see it, assert you dominance) throughout school by getting the best marks in the class (especially in classes such as science (in the general sense))? Just curious if my INTJs case is singular or quite common.

i don`t think being competitive is only a INTJ trait,

 

[Aesthete]

I didn't. I was the classic B+ student who didn't work that hard for As. I'm sure that if I judged my worth on grades, I would have done much better.

I always tried to do as well as possible in school, but more to prove my abilities to myself than to prove anything to others. Marks alone were never enough, though. I had to do projects and reports up to my own standards, which were often more demanding than the actual assignments, and be productive at my chosen hobbies and extracurricular activities. This was motivated more by the desire to gain useful knowledge and develop useful skills than any desire to show up others, though perhaps it had that side effect.

i don`t think being competitive is only a INTJ trait,

So I see this is a case which does not hold true for others. Thank you.

 

[Dudesowin]

I have 2 friends I suspect are INTJ that I know personally and they are alright. I have seen an abnormal amount of INTJ on the internet compared to the population surveys per type that I have read. I was curious if it might be due to people exploiting certain fad diets or chemical substances for intellectual performance. Lets say for example a laxative that would flush out the serotonin and increase ghrelin levels or perhaps a Ritalin cocktail of sorts?

Also of interesting note I have read reports of PTSD (shellshock) victims testing as INTP and ISTP during analysis.

 

[Halt.]

I'm an Intj, I agree with this in general.

i struggle communicating, don't know how I come across, sometimes indecisive. Though only on occasion, and am terribly critical. Which I attribute to a habit of mine. Everyone always says "Ask "Why?"" I say "Ask "Why not?""
So instead of asking "Why are you like this?" I'll think "Why aren't you like something else, why don't you do this? Why not do something else, if it is more effecient, and gets things done?" In a way it really really helps me, since Intj's are naturals at finding faults. So maybe try it out for a while, it really speeds up the thinking process sometimes I just need to curb being so judgmental.

 

[Salomé]

I found a new test for INTJness!

 

[RaptorWizard]

I found a new test for INTJness!

Why do you think INTJs are buttheads?

If anything, it's those dang ESFPs that reign all of their chains over me!

 

[Coriolis]

Why do you think INTJs are buttheads?

If anything, it's those dang ESFPs that reign all of their chains over me!

To validate the test as an indicator of INTJ type, one would need to have many clearly-typed INTJs take it, and see how they score.

 

[grey_beard]

Given how few relationships most INTJS have compared with other types, we probably do invest much more energy into each one, especially a close friend or partner. If we don't feel this commitment is being reciprocated, we may conclude our investment of energy is not worth it. A sort of cost/benefit analysis. A reduction in attention from the other person can also come across as either a reduction in interest, or even a betrayal, depending on how close and committed the relationship was originally. INTJs tend to be decisive and rather ruthless when it comes to terminating relationships: either it is worth having one with someone, or it is not. Much of this is driven by Fi considerations that the INTJ might not even be aware of.

Sorry for the thread necro, but you nailed it in *one*. (Yes, that's redundant, as I see you are an INTJ, and by definition would be expected both to get it right, and to be able to describe is *succinctly*.)
Nonetheless, it was so well executed that I felt compelled to applaud in public.

 

[grey_beard]

No, it comes from the combination of functions. Ni makes us feel certain of the undesirable outcome, once we see a preponderance of evidence. Te makes us decisive. In this respect, it is very easy for us to make the decision to downgrade or terminate a relationship, and to follow through on it. It probably looks quite straightforward and absolute to the other person. Inside, however, we can be just as hurt by the outcome as the other person, though we will not let on about that, and will certainly not let it stop us. This is essentially what happened between myself and my ex, when our relationship ended.

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]; [MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION]; [MENTION=14388]Inari[/MENTION] Love --
Sorry again for the thread necro, not stalking but just going down the thread in sequential order and commenting as the fit takes me.
A good term for this termination process is autocauterizing.
Yeah, I know, "term for this TERMination" is awkward. Too bad, I'm not changing it.

 

[grey_beard]

How do you know? (User manual: as a member of the illuminati Ni person, you'll have some pre-existing, developed over time conceptual scheme that you apply to situations, and you'll possibly even be able to describe that conceptual scheme independent of being attracted to the gestalt of some changing situation. So, Ni is....?)

But re ISFJs and INTJs...

Of all people types in this world, I find ISFJs to be the most opaque. By typological law it must be admitted that they do have inner workings, but their priorities and perceptions are so very unlike my own that I can't really make much sense of the person beyond noting the Barbie Doll exterior. Any sensible INTJ will give up after a while. Interaction with ISFJs pays off in literally no terms. There are no points of contact beyond the bodily and, if you're unfortunate enough, some unchangeable history.

Careful there. INTJ and ISFJ can work together if they have shared *values*. I've been married to an ISFJ for 27 years now.
Yes, one does have to come to terms with the fact that they have *ZERO* intuition. On the other hand, having someone who can make the household trains run on time is a blessing.

 

[grey_beard]

So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.


Or is it one of those things where the person says...once a liar always a liar...if you get what i mean?

Yet more crunchy thread necro on my part.
It depends on if the lack of attention to you was inadvertent, negligent, deliberate, or with malice aforethought.
A grand gesture -- IF you could tell it wasn't "calculating" on their part, and was (in some form or another) costly enough to them, might allow them to start over, although not at square one, they'd still have a penalty/handicap of some time, and possibly be subject to ongoing heightened vigilance for a time...

 

[grey_beard]

This part made me laugh for some reason.



Common issues I have with INTJs is that I generally can't stand them and they get obsessed with ( trying to dominate ) me.

It has become an almost laughably common dynamic.

I suppose because I tend to find them baffling and/or detestable, I haven't bothered to learn much about them beyond that. I have been told I have the death stare myself though, so I don't think this is a uniquely INTJ trait.

[MENTION=5143]Salomé[/MENTION]

Relative n00b here, sorry for the sustained thread necro. I've gotta start (or continue) somewhere.
Why do you find INTJs baffling and/or detestable? (I ask not because I am INTJ, but because I am -- like you -- an Enneagram 5w4 sx/sp and would have guessed or hoped that the Enneagram commonalities would, if not override, at least serve to bridge the gap on the INTP vs INTJ thing. And yes, I realize that neither INTJ nor INTP are exclusively 5w4 sx/sp, nor do I know the Enneagram of the INTJs you've tussled with.)
But I'm quite the n00b at this stuff, so I'm willing to close my mouth & open my (not ears, since we're typing) eyes and learn...
Best wishes.

 

[grey_beard]

Approaching an INTJ "the right way" means "on your knees".

[MENTION=5143]Salomé[/MENTION]
This brings to mind the salacious interpretation of "She stoops to conquer" -- see also Zarathustra's comment #94 and your comment #103.
But I presume from the rest of your comments, *you* didn't mean it like that, although presumably some of your INTJ disputants *did*, or at least wished/hoped for it...

 

[grey_beard]

See, this right here is the difference between Ti and Te (and it doesnt help that mine is tertiary, Im sure ). Its certainly true that my understanding of INTPs is more limited (I dont live with one), though I tend to get along pretty decently with them. I seem to understand the outer layers and even some beneath, but the core...Im still working on that one

Anycase, I guess we had to stop derailing this thread at some point

Edit: I'd love for any INTPs who stumble upon this convo and want to give feedback to rep me whether or not they understood where I was going and if I was onto something. Thanks!

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], [MENTION=5143]Salomé[/MENTION]
I'm an INTJ not INTP, but may I *suggest* (NOT insist!) that the INTJ just wants to get things right to within some pre-determined "circular error probable" (close enough for government work / the INTJ's standards subject to time or energy or budgetary constraints) whereas the INTP wants to lay down the internal mechanism of the theory to the point that it is both self-consistent *and* complete, ab initio, even on those items which are not currently, nor ever shall be, of practical import: and the INTP lays equal importance on the practically relevant and the non-practically relevant portions of the framework.
I am willing to be instructed / corrected by INTPs with internal knowledge of their own workings however.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]; [MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION]; [MENTION=14388]Inari[/MENTION] Love --
Sorry again for the thread necro, not stalking but just going down the thread in sequential order and commenting as the fit takes me.
A good term for this termination process is autocauterizing.
Yeah, I know, "term for this TERMination" is awkward. Too bad, I'm not changing it.

Wow

Perfect word cauterization

I am going to refer to that all the time now. Totally stealing it. Cause it's also in general what NJ's seem to do. INFJ's and INTJ's the most I guess, though. They cauterize ppl. (This is all from my personal observation of course, no where is this objectively written.)

And just so you know...you don't ever have to apologize to me for digging up an old thread. Or old subjects for that matter. I will keep beating a dead horse at a moments notice. It's what I love to do.(seriously) I love context AND closure, so the more of that the better!

Yet more crunchy thread necro on my part.

no worries

It depends on if the lack of attention to you was inadvertent, negligent, deliberate, or with malice aforethought.
A grand gesture -- IF you could tell it wasn't "calculating" on their part, and was (in some form or another) costly enough to them, might allow them to start over, although not at square one, they'd still have a penalty/handicap of some time, and possibly be subject to ongoing heightened vigilance for a time...

Yea I would figure that.

I just didn't know how much INTJ's held grudges.

It's one thing to be weary of next time, and a whole other thing to not let a next time happen.

I guess the line between those two things, are subjective for each INTJ.

 

[grey_beard]

Wow

Perfect word cauterization

I am going to refer to that all the time now. Totally stealing it. Cause it's also in general what NJ's seem to do. INFJ's and INTJ's the most I guess, though. They cauterize ppl. (This is all from my personal observation of course, no where is this objectively written.)

(grey_beard bows with patented INTJ humble pride (TM).)

And just so you know...you don't ever have to apologize to me for digging up an old thread. Or old subjects for that matter. I will keep beating a dead horse at a moments notice. It's what I love to do.(seriously) I love context AND closure, so the more of that the better!

Noted. (grey_beard sighs, wipes perspiration off of brow.)

no worries



Yea I would figure that.

I just didn't know how much INTJ's held grudges.

It's one thing to be weary of next time, and a whole other thing to not let a next time happen.

I guess the line between those two things, are subjective for each INTJ.

This is not a grudge, we bear no ill will (intrinsically) unless we know the damage to us was done with malice aforethought. Otherwise, it is merely efficiency in self-preservation.
The reason third chances are not given is simply that we know by that point, that further chances will be useless, and will only result in additional (foreseeable, therefore unnecessary)
harm to ourselves.