[INTJ] Common INTJ Issues

[Coriolis]

The reason why I brought up this story in the first place is because I place ALOT of emphasis on energy...energy in the same way that you're talkin about...getting to know the person...and do whatever it takes to communicate that I love them as a friend or otherwise. So I definately get WHY INTJ's do it...I just don't get HOW? The huge difference I think is that INTJ's have the ability to "drop" someone down a level or "let go" of a person easier...Maybe what I'm getting at is....Is it as easy as I think, for INTJ's to do this? or is it like an all or nothing thing...so it's easy?

I personally hate when I put way more energy into someone or even something that I'm doing for someone, and the other person does not even TRY to reciprocate... and it turns into this endless cycle of: Me putting in too much effort, getting hurt cause the other person doesn't do the same, but then I will do it all over again...as if I did not learn the first time....<---I just wanna know if there's a function I can develop that can help me to STOP doing this. Is it Ni? Cause I repeat history too many times...It's like I have to wait for the person to hurt me to the point of no return....why is an INTJ's "endurance" for this type of stuff different? Do you think it's purely introversion vs. extraversion?

No, it comes from the combination of functions. Ni makes us feel certain of the undesirable outcome, once we see a preponderance of evidence. Te makes us decisive. In this respect, it is very easy for us to make the decision to downgrade or terminate a relationship, and to follow through on it. It probably looks quite straightforward and absolute to the other person. Inside, however, we can be just as hurt by the outcome as the other person, though we will not let on about that, and will certainly not let it stop us. This is essentially what happened between myself and my ex, when our relationship ended.

 

[Evo]

No, it comes from the combination of functions. Ni makes us feel certain of the undesirable outcome, once we see a preponderance of evidence. Te makes us decisive. In this respect, it is very easy for us to make the decision to downgrade or terminate a relationship, and to follow through on it. It probably looks quite straightforward and absolute to the other person. Inside, however, we can be just as hurt by the outcome as the other person, though we will not let on about that, and will certainly not let it stop us. This is essentially what happened between myself and my ex, when our relationship ended.

hmm...I guess I don't like the thought of that then (breaking my own heart for a better future)...maybe for me it's an attachment style issue then...<--those darn things

That sounds sad though :/ I hate ending things badly....but I still admire and even envy that strength in INTJ's...Wish I could do that a lot more in my life.

I'm so very biased and a little judgemental...so I relate that act of "sticking to your guns" to sensors... So I keep trying to figure out what do INTJ's have that bring out the sensors inside...but I may be wrong.

And I guess I'm just weak. And a slave to my heart. ha ha

Interesting stuff though. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Coriolis]

hmm...I guess I don't like the thought of that then (breaking my own heart for a better future)...maybe for me it's an attachment style issue then...<--those darn things

That sounds sad though :/ I hate ending things badly....but I still admire and even envy that strength in INTJ's...Wish I could do that a lot more in my life.

I'm so very biased and a little judgemental...so I relate that act of "sticking to your guns" to sensors... So I keep trying to figure out what do INTJ's have that bring out the sensors inside...but I may be wrong.

And I guess I'm just weak. And a slave to my heart. ha ha

INTJs (to some degree all Ni dom/aux) are very future oriented, and will readily sacrifice today for something better tomorrow. In this respect, our heart is the slave of our "higher" functions. Also, Ni will cause someone to stick to their guns as much if not more than any form of S. It can easily ignore a reality that disagrees with it. Yes, the choices can be heartbreaking, but as I see it, the heartbreak would have come eventually. Better to get it over with sooner rather than prolong the agony.

 

[Kalach]

INTJs (to some degree all Ni dom/aux) are very future oriented, and will readily sacrifice today for something better tomorrow. In this respect, our heart is the slave of our "higher" functions. Also, Ni will cause someone to stick to their guns as much if not more than any form of S. It can easily ignore a reality that disagrees with it. Yes, the choices can be heartbreaking, but as I see it, the heartbreak would have come eventually. Better to get it over with sooner rather than prolong the agony.

Sticking to guns seems so obviously a judgment, and in particular an individual judgment over the top of some personalised perception, that it seems to me like we must always speak of Ni+Fi if we're ever talking about something perceived and attended to. The Ne people can get away with calling their perceptions objective or impersonal or just a perception as a perception, or even "random". This isn't actually to say their perceptions aren't selected, but it certainly seems like theirs are less so than ours are.

Which by the way means ours are better. And knowing this it becomes possible to be both more and less gun sticky.

*ascends*



Plus, Inari? ENFP.

/safe bet

 

[Evo]

INTJs (to some degree all Ni dom/aux) are very future oriented, and will readily sacrifice today for something better tomorrow. In this respect, our heart is the slave of our "higher" functions. Also, Ni will cause someone to stick to their guns as much if not more than any form of S. It can easily ignore a reality that disagrees with it. Yes, the choices can be heartbreaking, but as I see it, the heartbreak would have come eventually. Better to get it over with sooner rather than prolong the agony.

Hmm, I read all these sentences and I FEEL all these sentences....I too am someone who can easily sacrifice today for tomorrow...EASILY...it's always my #1 choice...except for those damn relationships...like business/work I am all about suffering now, for a better tomorrow...make that investment...put in the extra time, tear yourself apart so you can rest later ...even when I'm in a relationship I do this...Like my partner will say : I don't want to take this job because I will be far away. And I will say...take it because it's going to make us a lot of money and give us a better futere...It's better to sacrifice now...travel, get it out of the way, and build a foundation. screw seeing each other...that's something I can wait for...cause I know it'll be good when we finally get together.

Sighs, my problem might be Ni saying this person does this, this, and this that's bad...but I see this and this that could be good....it's like I hold on to that good...and think I'm sacrificing now(which translates to taking shit) for a hope of a better tomorrow. Sighs, I do notice that INFJ's can be very stubborn in a sense that they REALLY stick to thier guns...they're the only inxj type I've met irl. I was hoping you would say Ni sticks to thier guns...and like [MENTION=5731]Kalach[/MENTION] I think it's Ni + Fi. Maybe I just need to develop Ni better, and change my darn values(Fi) to value my self- respect more than the connections I want to make.

Also the sentence about there being heart ache in the end...I know there is...so why don't I get it over now? I guess I am just hoping for a change...

Sticking to guns seems so obviously a judgment, and in particular an individual judgment over the top of some personalised perception, that it seems to me like we must always speak of Ni+Fi if we're ever talking about something perceived and attended to. The Ne people can get away with calling their perceptions objective or impersonal or just a perception as a perception, or even "random". This isn't actually to say their perceptions aren't selected, but it certainly seems like theirs are less so than ours are.

Which by the way means ours are better. And knowing this it becomes possible to be both more and less gun sticky.

*ascends*

Plus, Inari? ENFP.

/safe bet

^^Ha Ha you're quite funny.

I love Ni too lol...I'm actually not an Ne user...I'm eNtJ Is how I like to put it. Not too heavy on the e or the t.

 

[Kalach]

I love Ni too lol...I'm actually not an Ne user...

How do you know? (User manual: as a member of the illuminati Ni person, you'll have some pre-existing, developed over time conceptual scheme that you apply to situations, and you'll possibly even be able to describe that conceptual scheme independent of being attracted to the gestalt of some changing situation. So, Ni is....?)

But re ISFJs and INTJs...

Of all people types in this world, I find ISFJs to be the most opaque. By typological law it must be admitted that they do have inner workings, but their priorities and perceptions are so very unlike my own that I can't really make much sense of the person beyond noting the Barbie Doll exterior. Any sensible INTJ will give up after a while. Interaction with ISFJs pays off in literally no terms. There are no points of contact beyond the bodily and, if you're unfortunate enough, some unchangeable history.

 

[Evo]

How do you know? (User manual: as a member of the illuminati Ni person, you'll have some pre-existing, developed over time conceptual scheme that you apply to situations, and you'll possibly even be able to describe that conceptual scheme independent of being attracted to the gestalt of some changing situation. So, Ni is....?)

But re ISFJs and INTJs...

Of all people types in this world, I find ISFJs to be the most opaque. By typological law it must be admitted that they do have inner workings, but their priorities and perceptions are so very unlike my own that I can't really make much sense of the person beyond noting the Barbie Doll exterior. Any sensible INTJ will give up after a while. Interaction with ISFJs pays off in literally no terms. There are no points of contact beyond the bodily and, if you're unfortunate enough, some unchangeable history.

Really? Ha ha in reference to the vold... I disagree lol...completely. I love ISFJ's...HEALTHY, INTELLIGENT ones....in life this is very hard to find...my mom was an unhealthy isfj and it was terrible...but then I met my best friend...he uses more Ti than most probably and yes it's difficult to find non barbie doll isfj's i guess...some of them when I get to know them are as shallow as their outside appearance...but others are very rewarding to be around. They offer things to the table like Si...<---I never know what I'm feeling...emotionally or even as simple as hungry...also Fe in certain cases...I guess I just like nice people, I do choose kindness over intellegence a lot of the time because kindness relates to a person's character imo...and I don't like getting my feelings hurt...In the end I can hurt an isfj though which sucks....but I have not met one isfj that is not nice. that's rare...their Fe is usually making sure everything is so harmonious...its wonderful. they will always befriend you.

You may need to meet more enlightened isfj's lol

 

[Kalach]

^ ENFP

 

[Evo]

^ ENFP

LMAO i'm not an enfp ha ha I am just a very unhealthy entj ...I have known my type for a very long time...lol I'm not a feeler...I just take everything personally because I hold a lot of ideas to a personal level and care about feelings....just means I'm not a total asshole entj in that way....I'm NOT an NF lol...I don't think dark thoughts when I'm alone..I am not up and down with my emotions...I take ideas that I believe in to my core personally lol...yes...cause I'm insecure and have lack of confidence....which I never used to have. But When I'm alone I hate the world...the world doesn't hate me...I am very bad at explaining things...my Ni sucks...if I had Ne I'd be able to think of creative possibilities...nope...I'm a total judger...need things to be clean to even think clearly...so much that i'm a perfectionist ....I could go on ha ha!

I think being a 6...just makes me a wacko...everything is so ambiguois...lol...even now after knowing my type for 5 years I still looked up enfp descriptions...lol it's just the anxiety that there is more info out there than I know lol...I'm just not a typical entj...but all the letters add up ha ha


What is this thing people have with entj's anyways? lmao...so wierd...does everyone think they're just all a-holes?

 

[Evo]

So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.


Or is it one of those things where the person says...once a liar always a liar...if you get what i mean?

 

[WhoCares]

No, it comes from the combination of functions. Ni makes us feel certain of the undesirable outcome, once we see a preponderance of evidence. Te makes us decisive. In this respect, it is very easy for us to make the decision to downgrade or terminate a relationship, and to follow through on it. It probably looks quite straightforward and absolute to the other person. Inside, however, we can be just as hurt by the outcome as the other person, though we will not let on about that, and will certainly not let it stop us. This is essentially what happened between myself and my ex, when our relationship ended.

Bingo! This is the story of my last relationship (with an ENFP). As far as he was concerned we could just keep on going, no end in mind, just let it be regardless. In reality the relationship had ended for me when I put two and two together and realised that a combination of immaturity, circumstance and plain old incompatibility were going to end this anyway. Why wait for the inevitable? In short, no common goals, no end in sight = why bother at all. Better to cut loose and have a chance at something than hold onto nothing. Doesn't mean I didn't grieve, cry 'why me' and all the rest of it. I surely did. But as far as he's aware I ended it....just like that. Without looking back.

I am always quick, certain and precise when ending relationships [publicly], privately however it takes me a while to be comfortable with the decision I knew was inevitable. I probably still rank as one of the coldest people he's ever met. Torment for the INTJ is a private matter that few people ever see.

 

[Kalach]

So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.

What's a grand gesture got to do with it? They have to demonstrate they know the mechanism of the failure. That's what re-opens potential. Or adds a layer of tragedy.

Why would any NTJ put romance ahead of destined mechanism?

 

[Evo]

What's a grand gesture got to do with it? They have to demonstrate they know the mechanism of the failure. That's what re-opens potential. Or adds a layer of tragedy.

Why would any NTJ put romance ahead of destined mechanism?

in reference to the bold...I'm just trying to break down what you mean exactly. Are you saying that the other person needs to show that they understand why the relationship is failing, and that they want to fix it, and can fix it?

 

[Zarathustra]

So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.

That would be A LOT of blow jobs.

 

[Evo]

That would be A LOT of blow jobs.

HA HA! nice.

 

[Zarathustra]

^ ENFP

 

[Kalach]

in reference to the bold...I'm just trying to break down what you mean exactly. Are you saying that the other person needs to show that they understand why the relationship is failing, and that they want to fix it, and can fix it?

You don't believe in transformative understanding? Knowledge does not create decision and change?

I think maybe we can't see each other anymore.

 

[Salomé]

it triggers fears and anxieties in traumatised SiFi.

This part made me laugh for some reason.

Common issues I have with INTJs is that I generally can't stand them and they get obsessed with ( trying to dominate ) me.

It has become an almost laughably common dynamic.

I suppose because I tend to find them baffling and/or detestable, I haven't bothered to learn much about them beyond that. I have been told I have the death stare myself though, so I don't think this is a uniquely INTJ trait.

 

[Coriolis]

So the question I was leading up to for INTJ's was: if this happened, this scenario of the other person not putting in enough effort and you "dropping" them, Would you give them another chance if they made it up to you??<---like with A LOT of effort...lets just say they still wanted to be your friend/lova badly enough to communicate with a grand gesture or something of the sort.


Or is it one of those things where the person says...once a liar always a liar...if you get what i mean?

I believe people have the capacity to change, so will generally give people a second chance. As Kalach wrote, though, the have to show that they understand what the problem was. They need to have a plan to correct it that is based on reason (not just empty promises), and appear to have the determination to act on it. This will get them back on probation for awhile, and if they make good on their intentions, back into my good graces. If this fails, however, third and subsequent chances are almost nonexistent.

Common issues I have with INTJs is that I generally can't stand them and they get obsessed with (trying to dominate) me.

You are reading into this motivations that are not (always) there; or perhaps it is just some odd sort of wishful thinking. INTJs can be very opinionated, and forthcoming about speaking our minds. We refuse to be dominated, but that does not equate to a desire to dominate others. (That is more ENTJ, but only the stereotype.) Some people do mistakenly view the two attitudes as equivalent.

 

[Evo]

You don't believe in transformative understanding? Knowledge does not create decision and change?

I think maybe we can't see each other anymore.

Ha Ha...your crazy lol

So I was just trying to figure out how much an INTJ would stick to thier guns...I've never met one so I don't know their reactions. I'm just trying to compare that to the sensors we were talking about earlier...the isfp's I know ...would say no...they would say something like once a "liar always a liar". Or "a tiger never loses thier stripes"...It's good to know I have something in common with INTJ's then lol.

I believe people have the capacity to change, so will generally give people a second chance. As Kalach wrote, though, the have to show that they understand what the problem was. They need to have a plan to correct it that is based on reason (not just empty promises), and appear to have the determination to act on it. This will get them back on probation for awhile, and if they make good on their intentions, back into my good graces. If this fails, however, third and subsequent chances are almost nonexistent.


You are reading into this motivations that are not (always) there; or perhaps it is just some odd sort of wishful thinking. INTJs can be very opinionated, and forthcoming about speaking our minds. We refuse to be dominated, but that does not equate to a desire to dominate others. (That is more ENTJ, but only the stereotype.) Some people do mistakenly view the two attitudes as equivalent.

Regarding the first paragraph bolded, good to know I love this kinda information

And the second paragraph in bold, thanks for mentioning that