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Cold war 2.0

SensEye

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EU countries have not only taken up enormous numbers of Ukrainian refugees and sent logistical help. They have also sent arms and equipment and money in the billions. Eastern Europe has taken up a disproportionate share of the burden as they know better than anyone else how serious this is and what it is like to have Russia sable-rattling in front of your doorsteps. And of course the EU institutions have invested more money in this than the US.
I probably should not have referred to Ukraine in the context of this comment. I was trying to make the point Guyana is not likely to receive support from the UN, so when VG replied that the UN is a collective, and an individual member country may step up, I wanted to imply I thought that was unlikely. It's USA intervention or nada for Guyana (at least that's my prediction).

I consider the UN a dysfunctional organization that should be re-invented or disbanded. But that's a topic for another day.

The EU has done work for Ukraine. I didn't mean to imply they hadn't. However, the GDP percentages paint things a bit distortedly. Total military aid is about 50/50 (in Euros) between US and EU collectively. (https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/). I believe this graph is strictly military, not humanitarian. In any event, I just want to see the EU continue it's support even if a Trump/Republican US bows out. I worry they will not, as they would have to roughly double their commitment to make up for a US shortfall. I get the feeling if the US pulls out, so will the EU, hopefully this won't come to pass (i.e. the US will stay in).
 

Virtual ghost

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The EU has done work for Ukraine. I didn't mean to imply they hadn't. However, the GDP percentages paint things a bit distortedly. Total military aid is about 50/50 (in Euros) between US and EU collectively. (https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/). I believe this graph is strictly military, not humanitarian. In any event, I just want to see the EU continue it's support even if a Trump/Republican US bows out. I worry they will not, as they would have to roughly double their commitment to make up for a US shortfall. I get the feeling if the US pulls out, so will the EU, hopefully this won't come to pass (i.e. the US will stay in).

If US walks away the rest of the democratic world will need to cover some of that hole. Japan, UK, Canada, Australia ... etc. What is so that the mix is 70:30 between EU and others. If EU remains fully alone it I will almost surely walk away as well. However in that case it i will offer a safe place for all Ukrainians that want it. What means that Putin for the most part will be left with empty ruins.

Just a thought.
 

SensEye

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Israel killing Hamas, then forcing the rest into the Sinai so that it's Egypt's problem. Egypt wont take them, but if Israel could pull this off Egypt would be on the hook for future attacks against Israel and as such would have the incentive to put a stop to it.
I don't think they even need to force them into Sinai. Just turn Gaza over to Egypt like it used to be before the 1967 war. Egypt doesn't want the hassle, but too bad so sad. Israel (and the collective west) should just stop providing an administrative support to Gaza, so if Egypt doesn't do it, they can sink or swim on their own. And they would certainly sink. But, hey, Gazan's are Egypt's/Arab world's "brothers in Islam" so their brothers can take care of them, leave the west (who Gazans all hate anyways) out of it.

Besides which, they all think God is Great, so their god can take care of them. If he doesn't, I guess that's his will. You never hear a sentence can come out of a Gazan's mouth without a "god willing" in there somewhere.

But the bleeding hearts in the West would whine and cry, and western politicians don't have the fortitude to take stern measures.
 

SensEye

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If US walks away the rest of the democratic world will need to cover some of that hole. Japan, UK, Canada, Australia ... etc. What is so that the mix is 70:30 between EU and others. If EU remains fully alone it I will almost surely walk away as well. However in that case it i will offer a safe place for all Ukrainians that want it. What means that Putin for the most part will be left with empty ruins.

Just a thought.
I'd be down with that. Unfortunately, outside of financial aid, I don't think any of those countries can provide much military hardware outside of the UK.

I know Canada can't, our own military can barely keeps its outdated equipment combat ready, and the number #1 concern these days seems to be correct use of preferred pronouns in the armed forces. Any proposed funding increases get redirected into aboriginal reconciliation, gender equity, and greenhouse gas virtue signaling projects.
 
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I don't think they even need to force them into Sinai. Just turn Gaza over to Egypt like it used to be before the 1967 war. Egypt doesn't want the hassle, but too bad so sad. Israel (and the collective west) should just stop providing an administrative support to Gaza, so if Egypt doesn't do it, they can sink or swim on their own. And they would certainly sink. But, hey, Gazan's are Egypt's/Arab world's "brothers in Islam" so their brothers can take care of them, leave the west (who Gazans all hate anyways) out of it.

Besides which, they all think God is Great, so their god can take care of them. If he doesn't, I guess that's his will. You never hear a sentence can come out of a Gazan's mouth without a "god willing" in there somewhere.

But the bleeding hearts in the West would whine and cry, and western politicians don't have the fortitude to take stern measures.
I'm going to be civil and just say, "wow." I don't recall ever believing something like that.
 

Virtual ghost

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I'd be down with that. Unfortunately, outside of financial aid, I don't think any of those countries can provide much military hardware outside of the UK.

I know Canada can't, our own military can barely keeps its outdated equipment combat ready, and the number #1 concern these days seems to be correct use of preferred pronouns in the armed forces. Any proposed funding increases get redirected into aboriginal reconciliation, gender equity, and greenhouse gas virtue signaling projects.


Japan and south Korea are already in the game, they just need to expand their share.

As far as Canada goes I am aware of the fact that your military spending isn't by Nato standards. However I said what "should" happen in order that the western help for Ukraine will remain competitive without US. It is possible to win this even without US but it wouldn't be easy (and more Ukrainians will die in the process).
 

Virtual ghost

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world-fragile-states-index-2023.png



Way too much yellow, orange and red.
 

The Cat

The Cat in the Tinfoil Hat..
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Probably. Maybe I could stop that if I found some catnip. Catnip is supposed to be calming to humans, maybe it could put the wokeness to sleep.
Some people unwind by getting off on winding up other people. Other people enjoy living vicariously through war crimes without having to deal with the consequences of nutting up and going to serve in wartime. Some kinds of cowards have no issue with people dying so long as it isnt their yellow asses and they get to go on pretending that for them everything is fine. You might be better off saving the catnip for chilling with the glaring. (Fun fact a group of cats is called a clowder, or a glaring.)
 

ceecee

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Some people unwind by getting off on winding up other people. Other people enjoy living vicariously through war crimes without having to deal with the consequences of nutting up and going to serve in wartime. Some kinds of cowards have no issue with people dying so long as it isnt their yellow asses and they get to go on pretending that for them everything is fine. You might be better off saving the catnip for chilling with the glaring. (Fun fact a group of cats is called a clowder, or a glaring.)
And if anyone is having difficulty determining who these people are - look for the ones cheering for it the loudest or trying to convince otherwise with word salads and conversative Twitter reposts.
 

SensEye

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I presume I said something that got everyone so worked up. I'm not quite sure about what it is.

Was it my assertion that Gazan's should learn to take care of themselves that is so outrageous? Or failing that, that they should look to their Arab brothers for support? How is turning Gaza over to Egypt (who used to own it pre 1967) me not caring about people dying. I propose this so less people die in the future.

Or do you really think the Palestinians and Jews are just going to all of a sudden hug it out and sing kumbaya (after being at each others throats pretty much constantly since 1948)? What is that saying about the definition of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

You do realize a two state solution was proposed in 1948 and the Arabs rejected it and declared war on fledgling Israel? But of course, it is all the west's/white man's fault. Because who else can ever be to blame?
 

ceecee

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You do realize a two state solution was proposed in 1948 and the Arabs rejected it and declared war on fledgling Israel? But of course, it is all the west's/white man's fault. Because who else can ever be to blame?
What was that land from 1920 to 1948? In fact, let's go back to WWI. What empire ruled that region of the world? White people? Nah. The Ottoman Empire ruled all of the Levant and Middle East from the 15th Century until WWI. The Arabs and the British pushed out the Ottomans and the Arabs were told their independence would be honored. It was not and the British and the French created the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration after the Arabs helped them push out the Ottomans. The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British govt. in 1917 further complicated this when it promised a Jewish national home. Now, do you see why the Palestinians rejected the two state solution? The only solution anyone should want is a one state solution ( That's what - from the river to the sea actually means). Jews and Arabs with the same rights, a removal of the apartheid government in Tel Aviv. A pluralist nation. And if you don't know what a pluralist nation is - you're living in one.

So, do yourself a favor and read the history of the region which goes back LONG before 1948. Better yet, stop framing the issues happening right now as if they have been happening for the last months and nothing before. Oh and maybe speak to some Palestinians, some Lebanese, some Syrians and stop throwing up the white victim card and stop being an apologist for the Western nations.
 
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I presume I said something that got everyone so worked up. I'm not quite sure about what it is.

Was it my assertion that Gazan's should learn to take care of themselves that is so outrageous? Or failing that, that they should look to their Arab brothers for support? How is turning Gaza over to Egypt (who used to own it pre 1967) me not caring about people dying. I propose this so less people die in the future.

Or do you really think the Palestinians and Jews are just going to all of a sudden hug it out and sing kumbaya (after being at each others throats pretty much constantly since 1948)? What is that saying about the definition of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

You do realize a two state solution was proposed in 1948 and the Arabs rejected it and declared war on fledgling Israel? But of course, it is all the west's/white man's fault. Because who else can ever be to blame?

  1. With that post, I am completely confused by your politics on the issue.
  2. I found your basic approach to topic to be dehumanizing, which is never a good thing.
  3. I don't know why this is so difficult, but people believing something differently than you isn't a just cause for you (or someone else) to go about killing them. Perhaps this is an overly US-centric point I used to make, but it's alway amazed me how the chief takeaway many people got from 9/11 is that, yes, killing people for believing differently is bad, but not when we do it because our worldview is superior (perhaps even objectively superior).
 
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The only solution anyone should want is a one state solution ( That's what - from the river to the sea actually means). Jews and Arabs with the same rights, a removal of the apartheid government in Tel Aviv. A pluralist nation. And if you don't know what a pluralist nation is - you're living in one.
I've seen a lot of back-and-forth on this so I appreciate the clarification here. I first heard about a one-state solution on another forum I used to frequent, a long time ago. I think I've mentioned it a few times but most people didn't seem to know what it was.
 
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