Cold war 2.0

[Virtual ghost]

 

[Virtual ghost]

As suspected the Netherlands is having it's 2016 moment.
The exit poll says that far right is the largest party in the new parliament (gray).


Netherlands — 2023 general election


More about this should come out soon.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Far-right leader Geert Wilders wins Dutch election: Exit poll


This will shock quite a few people around the continent, that is for sure.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Dutch election: Wilders' far-right PVV set to win — poll

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think there's one thing that's constant around the globe: unfortunately, no matter where you go, people hate migrants. (There was a time when I believed there was a form of American exceptionalism regarding this in play, but I don't believe that any longer.)

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think there's one thing that's constant around the globe: unfortunately, no matter where you go, people hate migrants. (There was a time when I believed there was a form of American exceptionalism regarding this in play, but I don't believe that any longer.)

If there is one thing in which US isn't all that special this could easily be that topic. However in many cases this isn't even so much about the migrants but about those that want to bring them in. In my local political environment this is quite often seen as tilting the game again workers, by bringing in people who aren't unionized and who are easy to manipulate through various contracts. Plus they work for much less than locals and they don't ask for many benefits (since they didn't have them in their 3rd world countries). In other words in my part of Europe immigration is seen as a pro market right wing policy. Which is why the main left wing party isn't really for it and it doesn't promote it. In other words this is exactly why in the US working class is increasingly going towards Trump. In other words as the left generally gave up on workers around the globe that pushed the workers towards the far right. Which through nationalism are pushing at least some kind of half protection for the workers (protection from unfair competition). In my book this is the hole where the left in the big picture really misread the situation, or it has simply evolved into liberal centrism and it doesn't really care anymore.

What means that what we are seeing across the globe isn't really that much surprising or unexpected. In a sense this is totally predictable outcome.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Japan military aid expands Southeast Asia footprint

 

[Virtual ghost]

 

[SensEye]

I think there's one thing that's constant around the globe: unfortunately, no matter where you go, people hate migrants. (There was a time when I believed there was a form of American exceptionalism regarding this in play, but I don't believe that any longer.)

Especially illegal migrants.

You'd think the left would pick up on this, but they seem to stuck in their woke dogma. The whole claiming asylum/refugee status scam needs to be shut down. 99% of immigrants are economic refugees. If they apply for immigration, follow the process, and arrive once approved, all good. If they just show up, they should be sent back home.

 

[ceecee]

Especially illegal migrants.

You'd think the left would pick up on this, but they seem to stuck in their woke dogma. The whole claiming asylum/refugee status scam needs to be shut down. 99% of immigrants are economic refugees. If they apply for immigration, follow the process, and arrive once approved, all good. If they just show up, they should be sent back home.

In the US, by law, a person needs to present themselves at a border crossing for asylum. That's not woke dogma, it's the law as it stands. You have NO idea what the immigration process is and how many people wait decades to go through the process and often die waiting - especially for people coming from nations that the US has actively destabilized - El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Bolivia Venezuela... why should they stay? I would rather welcome a mom with her kid that's made it all the way to the US any day of the week. Those are the people that make great immigrant Americans - they always have. But for some reason, lots of right wing refuse to learn anything and just spew the same stupid shit right media tells them to. Just like using terms like "woke dogma".

 

[ceecee]

I think there's one thing that's constant around the globe: unfortunately, no matter where you go, people hate migrants. (There was a time when I believed there was a form of American exceptionalism regarding this in play, but I don't believe that any longer.)

Yeah they hate migrants until there isn't anyone to pick their fruit or make their fucking sandwiches.

 

[SensEye]

In the US, by law, a person needs to present themselves at a border crossing for asylum. That's not woke dogma, it's the law as it stands. You have NO idea what the immigration process is and how many people wait decades to go through the process and often die waiting - especially for people coming from nations that the US has actively destabilized - El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Bolivia Venezuela... why should they stay? I would rather welcome a mom with her kid that's made it all the way to the US any day of the week. Those are the people that make great immigrant Americans - they always have. But for some reason, lots of right wing refuse to learn anything and just spew the same stupid shit right media tells them to. Just like using terms like "woke dogma".

Well, I know that's the law as it stands. The law should be changed. It would easily get popular support to change it. But it won't be changed due to dogmatic thinking on somebodies part. Maybe it's the SJ's and not the woke, but laws that don't work and are largely unpopular should be modified. That's why a lot of these far right governments are gaining traction. They at least talk about it, although they rarely follow through.

As cat's favorite internet commentator likes to say: anyways, it's just a thought.

 

[The Cat]

As suspected the Netherlands is having it's 2016 moment.
The exit poll says that far right is the largest party in the new parliament (gray).


Netherlands — 2023 general election


More about this should come out soon.

We're not crazy. We're just ahead of the curve. In all seriousness this is disappointing.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

TBH I think even legal immigration should be drastically reduced.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The problem is that not all countries are melting pots by very design. In some places the very idea that there should be immigration is causing open public discomfort. Since that is something that was never even tried before in certain places. In US this can perhaps work due to history but in some other places even slight amount of immigration can cause nationalist surge.

As one political commentator explained: Americans fundamentally don't understand Europe. Since they don't understand the concept of a nation state. To them owning a citizenship means that you are a local.

What in the end means that once you start projecting US values on someone else that can create quite a "turbulence". Especially since many may not think that US social values are flawless. What can then easily lead to what is called anti-americanism and weakening of US influence. What can easily complicate things in various ways.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

1In US this can perhaps work due to history but in some other places even slight amount of immigration can cause nationalist surge.

Except the U.S actually isn't that different. Immigration was exactly what Trump was bleating about in the summer of 2015. I guess by the the time the primaries came around, Republican voters have seen enough of this to go "I want to vote for that guy", although no doubt there were other factors. By the end of 2016, I was certain that there was no historical element due to experience with immigration that immunized the U.S from that kind of politics. That ended up not really being in the cards. We're ultimately more alike in this.

(Perhaps Trump could have been stopped if he had an opponent with some kind of strategy, but I suppose that would have been too much to ask for.)

 

[Virtual ghost]

Estonia — 2023 general election


Meanwhile in Estonia there is a huge center right surge in polling average (dark blue). What means that now two strongest parties are center right and far right (light blue).


As I said, prepare of right wing EU. Since this is evidently where things are going.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Estonia — 2023 general election


Meanwhile in Estonia there is a huge center right surge in polling average (dark blue). What means that now two strongest parties are center right and far right (light blue).


As I said, prepare of right wing EU. Since this is evidently where things are going.

Did everyone get all of this wrong?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Except the U.S actually isn't that different. Immigration was exactly what Trump was bleating about in the summer of 2015. I guess by the the time the primaries came around, Republican voters has seen enough of this to create an "I want to vote for that guy" sentiment, although no doubt there were other factors. By the end of 2016, I was certain that there was no historical element due to experience with immigration that immunized the U.S from that kind of politics. That ended up not really being in the cards. We're ultimately more alike in this.

(Perhaps Trump could have been stopped if he had an opponent with some kind of strategy, but I suppose that would have been too much to ask for.)

Yes, but you are kinda missing my cards with that argument. Which is that US is importing economic immigrants form all over the world for centuries. While in my local case this experiment is going on for barely 3 years. My area is about 99% white and thus it is more white than anywhere in US. At this point central Europe is the most white part of the world. Therefore with just about 1% of none white population you are getting far right at 20%. What clearly indicates that the only thing that immigration will achieve is far right winning various elections. What in my book just isn't worth it. After all those immigrants will only be a cheap workforce for foreign corporations which are trying to take over local market. It isn't that there is some deep value in all this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Did everyone get all of this wrong?

I am not sure what you are asking here ?