Chicago Cubs

[Neo Genesis]

Phillies are already up 2-0 in the NLCS. Who wants a piece???

Is it any surprise? Both teams swept the other at home in the regular season.

 

[pure_mercury]

Is it any surprise? Both teams swept the other at home in the regular season.

I doubt that continues. I think the Phils take at least one in L.A.

 

[Neo Genesis]

I doubt that continues. I think the Phils take at least one in L.A.

I'd certainly be surprised if that happened, but then again I'm a dodgers fan.

 

[pure_mercury]

I'd certainly be surprised if that happened, but then again I'm a dodgers fan.

You'd be surprised that a team who is 2-0 in a playoff series wins 1 or more of the next 3 games in it? You must not be a gambler. The Phillies should be favored in Game 5, when Hamels should be pitching again. Also, the Phillies were the best team in the league on the road this season.

 

[Simplexity]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

 

[Neo Genesis]

You'd be surprised that a team who is 2-0 in a playoff series wins 1 or more of the next 3 games in it? You must not be a gambler. The Phillies should be favored in Game 5, when Hamels should be pitching again.

I'm not. When discussing future events or implications, I tend to be wrong. Again, I'm a Dodgers fan. I don't want them losing, especially at home.

Also, the Phillies were the best team in the league on the road this season.

0-4 at Dodger Stadium. Granted, its a different situation, but still.

 

[swordpath]

Cubs over Red Sox, yes please. Cubs over Yankees, yes please. Dodgers over anyone.... No thanks.

 

[pure_mercury]

0-4 at Dodger Stadium. Granted, its a different situation, but still.

Absolutely no bearing on this series. They play 162 games in a baseball season. Weird things are bound to happen. Jamie Moyer has never lost to the Marlins; there is no real rhyme or reason why not. Besides, if the home team wins every game in this series, the Phillies advance.

 

[pure_mercury]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

Besides Ramirez and Loney, what is this "Dodgers offense" of which you speak?

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Moyer was 16-7 this year with a 3.71 ERA. Yet everyone still seems to think that because he's old, they're going to beat up on him.

Dodger fans seem to think that the team that went on a tear in September is the "real Dodgers" instead of the team that struggled to go .500 for the first five months of the season (including a good stretch of time AFTER the Manny trade). I am a Phillies fan, but I live in LA and have watched the Dodgers all season. The truth is that both teams are the "real Dodgers"...they are what they are...a streaky team that got hot at the end of the season. Supporting your team is different than having unrealistic expectations for your team. Can they win? Sure. Is it likely? Certainly not. Of the nine teams that have fallen behind 2-0 in a seven game NLCS, only one recovered to win the series.

Kuroda seems to have the Phils' number, so my guess is that the Dodgers will win Game 3, the Phils and Blanton take Game 4 with Lowe on short rest, and then Hamels finishes them off in Game 5 against a shellshocked Billingsley.

 

[Simplexity]

Haha I remember Moyer from back in his Seattle days and the redsox would absolutely fucking destroy him and Manny played a big part in that. I'm to lazy and not invested enough to bring up his stats but I can almost guarantee you they are insane against him. Against patient right handers who have some pop, he has trouble.

Manny angry is a dangerous beast. When hes bothered like he is now its almost disgusting how easily he can drive ANY pitch to wherever the hell he feels like. If the rest of the offense just gets on base( Im sure moyer has his fare share of people on)

Lol I just actually hate mediocre pitchers who succeed because they are in the NL so if it sounds like I'm piling on I probably am.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Haha I remember Moyer from back in his Seattle days and the redsox would absolutely fucking destroy him and Manny played a big part in that. I'm to lazy and not invested enough to bring up his stats but I can almost guarantee you they are insane against him. Against patient right handers who have some pop, he has trouble.

Manny angry is a dangerous beast. When hes bothered like he is now its almost disgusting how easily he can drive ANY pitch to wherever the hell he feels like. If the rest of the offense just gets on base( Im sure moyer has his fare share of people on)

Lol I just actually hate mediocre pitchers who succeed because they are in the NL so if it sounds like I'm piling on I probably am.

None of this "Manny is mad, Manny kills Moyer" stuff means a whit unless the Dodgers can trot out the Looney Tunes lineup - first base Bugs Bunny, second base Bugs Bunny, third base Bugs Bunny...

And not many mediocre pitchers win 246 career games, good for 43rd all-time (and he's not done). It's not NL pitchers' fault that they play real baseball instead of beer league softball in the DH-loving AL.

 

[Simplexity]

Haha

BA OBP SLG OPS

.340 .417 .962 1.379

in 50+ abs.

Don't worry thats not significant. Don't pull the yankees 26 argument on me, I've heard it too many times and have refuted it to many times. Yes over his career hes been excellent, hes 45 now and barely cracks 80 mph, somehow I don't find it that hard for decent right handed hitters to adjust.

As for the pitcher comment look at how much Sabbathia dominated, how well Blanton did, Haren. Just ask the whole AL East how fun and easy it is to face the lineups they do. Speaking of those Yankees they still had a better record than the Dodgers by a decent margin in a much much tougher division and league. When you get down to it though, I can almost guarantee you that the dodgers will score at least 5 or 6 runs against Moyer. Hes a Joke. Im sorry he does not compare to the Garzas', Danks', Lesters'/Matsuzakas', or any respectable number 3 starter in the AL.

 

[pure_mercury]

Somehow I think Moyer is going to be ABUSED by Manny and the Dodgers offense.

Haha

BA OBP SLG OPS

.340 .417 .962 1.379

in 50+ abs.

Don't worry thats not significant. Don't pull the yankees 26 argument on me, I've heard it too many times and have refuted it to many times. Yes over his career hes been excellent, hes 45 now and barely cracks 80 mph, somehow I don't find it that hard for decent right handed hitters to adjust.

As for the pitcher comment look at how much Sabbathia dominated, how well Blanton did, Haren. Just ask the whole AL East how fun and easy it is to face the lineups they do. Speaking of those Yankees they still had a better record than the Dodgers by a decent margin in a much much tougher division and league. When you get down to it though, I can almost guarantee you that the dodgers will score at least 5 or 6 runs against Moyer. Hes a Joke. Im sorry he does not compare to the Garzas', Danks', Lesters'/Matsuzakas', or any respectable number 3 starter in the AL.

You're wrong here. Moyer was actually quite excellent this year. The Phils' best starting pitcher overall. In fact, I would rank him as second only to Lidge in consistent performance. Besides, he doesn't need to be better than those guys. He needs to be better than the Dodgers he faces.

 

[Simplexity]

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact a determined Manny has. Especially against a pitcher he hits well, ask any one who watches American League teams or any player in the AL. Ask K-rod and the angels, Sabbathia and the Indians, the Yankees..etc. The point is I can guarantee you he will do serious damage and it was evident every time the redsox faced him. Nomar I think hits him well as well. Seriously if you are a halfway decent right handed hitter who is patient he really isn't intimidating in the least. You're just used to watching a bunch of impatient shit hitters who feast on the crap in the NL. Yes I know there's a bunch of great hitters in the NL, but honestly the difference in patience is so massive when you're consistently facing deep staffs in the AL.

Seriously look at moyer's numbers and run and take a look at Manny's numbers and tell me whose are more impressive and whose numbers show more impact and influence on games. Russel martin and Nomar are decent enough right handed hitters so they probably will have an impact on the game and force Manny to get pitches or at least drive him in when hes walked.

 

[pure_mercury]

I think you are greatly underestimating the impact a determined Manny has. Especially against a pitcher he hits well, ask any one who watches American League teams or any player in the AL. Ask K-rod and the angels, Sabbathia and the Indians, the Yankees..etc. The point is I can guarantee you he will do serious damage and it was evident every time the redsox faced him. Nomar I think hits him well as well. Seriously if you are a halfway decent right handed hitter who is patient he really isn't intimidating in the least. You're just used to watching a bunch of impatient shit hitters who feast on the crap in the NL. Yes I know there's a bunch of great hitters in the NL, but honestly the difference in patience is so massive when you're consistently facing deep staffs in the AL.

Seriously look at moyer's numbers and run and take a look at Manny's numbers and tell me whose are more impressive and whose numbers show more impact and influence on games. Russel martin and Nomar are decent enough right handed hitters so they probably will have an impact on the game and force Manny to get pitches or at least drive him in when hes walked.

I think you are severely overestimating what one man can do. Manny's been totally locked in so far in the series, and his team is still down 2-0. Someone besides him and Loney will have to start clobbering the ball to get the Dodgers back in it.

 

[Simplexity]

Im telling you though, Moyers is not a guy like hamels or Myers who can completely frustrate and shut down a lineup. It really makes a difference because Moyer will always have to deal with people on base. He cant amp it up in a playoff situation like Myers has done, He cant reach back for a little extra or just confuse the hell out of hitters with a nasty "power" change(yea I hate that term but just stops not fade slowly).

The only thing he can do is slow it down and really execute pitches and against Manny in a big spot you can bet Manny will CRUSH the ball(no little singles DEEP doubles and hrs). Yea I get it hes been like that allready, but the thing is those other guys in the lineup will have every opportunity to get on base and moyer knows that and will rely on his ability to pitch. That just doesn't cut it in the playoffs against a playoff team WITH Manny. Yea he really can make a huge difference, trust me I'm a redsox fan I've witnessed it(my Yankee friends will also attest to that).

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I just don't understand your point. If it were that easy to hit Moyer, why did he win 16 games and have an ERA of 3.71? Those are numbers earned over an entire season of solid performance. Is every hitter in the NL an impatient moron except for these Dodgers at this point in time? Why all of a sudden are THESE Dodgers at THIS point in time guaranteed to knock him around? Your don't have a leg to stand on here logically.

Even if they DO knock him around, that doesn't prove that you were right in guaranteeing it. It's like if you picked the Rays to win the AL East before the season started. You wouldn't have had a legitimate logical basis for it, it would have basically been just something provocative to say, and since the horse came in, you look like a genius. In reality, you just got lucky. I'm sure there's a term for wild illogical predictions that come true and make someone look undeservingly astute, but I'm not smart enough to know what it is.

Finally, pure_mercury is right. You are putting too many eggs in the basket of one man. Manny is already killing it, and the Dodgers are down 2-0. Unless they find a way to let him bat every position in the lineup, it just doesn't matter.

 

[Simplexity]

my point is a 3.71 era in the NL is not equal to a 3.71 in the AL. The point I'm making is Mannys been killing it against great pitching, he always has and always will. The team was struggling against great pitching, Moyer is not the same dominating type pitcher as Myers or Hamels so I would estimate its very likely the rest of the dodgers will get their hits. Look at what Happended to kazmir today, the difference wasn't that Youkilis was hitting he still continued, but the rest of the team Pedroia, Drew, Coco, Bay all hit and Ortiz was on base all day.

There is a difference also in how someone compiled their era. Great game aside Daisuke really was a 5-6 inning pitcher and was no where near as valuable as a guy like Lester who went 7-8 dominating innings routinely. He IMO was still more valuable than Beckett though(the stats don't lie in that case). Moyer is a case in IMO where you have to take a step back from the stats and analyze on a more SF level... your putting too much NT in this, gotta learn when to switch.

 

[pure_mercury]

my point is a 3.71 era in the NL is not equal to a 3.71 in the AL.

Fortunately for Moyer, he is pitching against an NL team in this series. Besides, the Phillies are the more "AL-style" team of the two. I don't care for that style very much, but it's working.

Moyer is a case in IMO where you have to take a step back from the stats and analyze on a more SF level... your putting too much NT in this, gotta learn when to switch.

Really? Baseball is the one sport where the stats tell almost everything.