Challenge

[ygolo]

What constitutes a challenge for you?

By "challenge," I mean something that is engaging or even exhilarating that still resembles the dictionary definition of a challenge.

Difficulty Level

• Do you need something to be difficult to consider it a challenge? If so, how hard to you need it to be?
• Is there a point when the difficulty level is too high for you to consider it a challenge? It so, what is the threshold?

Clarity of Goals

• Do you prefer the goals you are trying to meet in your challenges to be clear or ambiguous?
• Why do you have this preference?

Level of Confidence

• How do you react when you overestimate how easy a task is, and find out that it is much more difficult than you anticipated? Do you consider it a challenge?
• How do you react when you overestimate how difficult a task is, and find out that it is much easier than you anticipated? Do you then consider that you have lost a challenging opportunity?

Feedback

• How often do you require feedback from your challenging situation for it to be fullfilling?
• How do you know if you are getting too little feedback?
• How do you know if you are getting too much feedback?

 

[nightning]

What constitutes a challenge for you?
Something that I have not done before. Of modifying something to a significant degrees that requires ingenuity or new skills. An application of technique/theory in a way that it's not originally intended for.

Difficulty

• Do you have a threshold of difficulty before something becomes challenging and engaging for you?
  The task has to be sufficiently different from what I have done before. Some thinking/concentration on my part must be required.
• At what point does does difficulty become overwhelming instead of engaging or exhilarating?
  When I've realized I don't have the necessary skill sets to complete the task, that no modification on my part can work around this issue. And the task is something that I must complete... Frustration of being stuck and I couldn't find help.

Confidence Levels

• If you overestimate your ability to do do something, and that something becomes difficult for you how do you react? Is it considered a "challenge" or something else?
  Depending on the nature of the task. If it's something of interest, I tend to jump right in the challenge. For many of my little side projects, I'm definitely in over my head. But since there's no time limit for them, I don't mind breaking it down to small problems and tackling those one at a time. That's assuming I have the time... They tend to pile up a lot.
• If you underestimate you ability to do something, but realize you are better at something difficult than you thought you would be, how do you react? Is it considered a "challenge" or something else?
  Well it drops from being in the category of a challenge to something that I can/should complete. At the end of it, I get the satisfaction that it's done... but it's not as rewarding as being a "real challenge". I suppose if I have extra time, I might ramp up difficulty by throwing in a little something more into it. I have plenty of those laying around within my list of side projects.

Goal Clarity

• For something to be a "challenge" do you prefer clearly defined goals, or ill-defined goals? Why the preference?
  Both would work fine. I'm not picky. However if somebody else asked me to do it, it tends to be better defined compared to the tasks I set for myself.

Feedback

• For something to be a challenge do you prefer frequent feedback from the challenging situation or little to none?
  Depends on the nature of the challenge doesn't it? If I'm learning something off another person, then yes feedback please. If I'm messing about stuff by myself, I would rather I get it moving along prior to feedback. For the first little bit, I don't like distractions.

 

[Athenian200]

I don't understand this question at all. How on earth can a challenge be engaging/exhilarating rather than simply being a chore? I've never looked forward to a challenge or sought one out... I usually just see them coming and try to cope. I wouldn't want to face any challenges if I didn't have to.

I really think you're assuming that most people are like T's... this sounds like a really T way of seeing reality.

 

[disregard]

A day without a challenge is 24 hours wasted.

 

[nightning]

I don't understand this question at all. How on earth can a challenge be engaging/exhilarating rather than simply being a chore? I've never looked forward to a challenge or sought one out... I usually just see them coming and try to cope. I wouldn't want to face any challenges if I didn't have to.

I really think you're assuming that most people are like T's... this sounds like a really T way of seeing reality.

*blinks* Do you not get a kick out of accomplishing something that's a challenge? It's like me trying to debug coding. I start making lots of noise... how I'm irritated at stuff not working, borderline swearing, threatening the beat up the computer... but I actually like doing it.

 

[Athenian200]

*blinks* Do you not get a kick out of accomplishing something that's a challenge? It's like me trying to debug coding. I start making lots of noise... how I'm irritated at stuff not working, borderline swearing, threatening the beat up the computer... but I actually like doing it.

No, actually I don't enjoy that. I've gone through that, and I only feel relief that it's over.

One thing I particularly dislike about overcoming challenges is that it increases a sense of unconscious arrogance that causes me to look down on people who are less knowledgeable/capable than I am. And while I don't like that feeling, it's incredibly hard to get rid of... it makes me wish I had never overcome any challenges at all so that I wouldn't have that feeling.

 

[ygolo]

No, actually I don't enjoy that. I've gone through that, and I only feel relief that it's over.

One thing I particularly dislike about overcoming challenges is that it increases a sense of unconscious arrogance that causes me to look down on people who are less knowledgeable/capable than I am. And while I don't like that feeling, it's incredibly hard to get rid of... it makes me wish I had never overcome any challenges at all so that I wouldn't have that feeling.

Really, for me it is a source of confidence, not arrogance. Perhaps if I believed other people couldn't meet the challenge also, it would make me arrogant. But I think almost anyone can meet almost any challenge

Missing out on challenges would significantly reduce the joy in my life (if you can believe it could be reduced further).

 

[Athenian200]

Really, for me it is a source of confidence, not arrogance. Perhaps if I believed other people couldn't meet the challenge also, it would make me arrogant. But I think almost anyone can meet almost any challenge

Missing out on challenges would significantly reduce the joy in my life (if you can believe it could be reduced further).

It's hard for me to understand the difference between confidence and arrogance. It doesn't feel like there is one to me.

The main reason I dislike that feeling is because it makes me think less of people who can't do what I can, especially if it's part of their job to be able to do that. For instance, once I felt condescending towards an administrator because they couldn't figure out the details of how to manipulate a database which weren't difficult for me to understand, and it seemed to me that someone who worked that closely with such a thing ought to know more about it... especially since I believed it was part of their job to understand it. And I would have found it easier to feel respect for them if I didn't understand more than they did.

What I've found is that knowing I can do or understand something only makes me irritated with people who either can't or won't try, and creates a feeling that I'm better than them in some way. I really don't like that feeling.

But I can understand why it brings you happiness... you're an NT, after all.

 

[ygolo]

It's hard for me to understand the difference between confidence and arrogance. It doesn't feel like there is one to me.

The main reason I dislike that feeling is because it makes me think less of people who can't do what I can, especially if it's part of their job to be able to do that. For instance, once I felt condescending towards an administrator because they couldn't figure out the details of how to manipulate a database which weren't difficult for me to understand, and it seemed to me that someone who worked that closely with such a thing ought to know more about it... especially since I believed it was part of their job to understand it. And I would have found it easier to feel respect for them if I didn't understand more than they did.

What I've found is that knowing I can do or understand something only makes me irritated with people who either can't or won't try, and creates a feeling that I'm better than them in some way. I really don't like that feeling.

But I can understand why it brings you happiness... you're an NT, after all.

I don't believe I often get irritated when people can't do somthing (unless they keep bugging me to do it for them). I don't like being irritated either.

Don't you get any other good feeling from doing something difficult? Something where there is a good chance you could fail-at or screw-up?

It's hard to describe, but I can't imagine going one day wihtout having something I could potentially fail at doing in front of me. Yes, sometimes (probably too often) it is way too much stress, but I cannot see cutting out challenges all-together.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

What constitutes a challenge for you?

By "challenge," I mean something that is engaging or even exhilarating that still resembles the dictionary definition of a challenge.

Difficulty Level

• Do you need something to be difficult to consider it a challenge? If so, how hard to you need it to be?

Not necessarily. It can be a challenge to come up with a creative solution. Sometimes the simplest of ideas are the best, but finding them can be a challenge in it's own right.

• Is there a point when the difficulty level is too high for you to consider it a challenge? It so, what is the threshold?

I love complexity. I have confidence that I would be able to solve much more difficult problems than my current level of ability allows. It takes focus. If you want to build a rocket to go to the moon you have to dedicate yourself to learning absolutely everything you can about rockets, physics, aerodynamics, mechanical and electrical engineering, etc.

If on the other hand you want to become a knitting genius, if you were to knit for four hours a day, in tens years you will be knitting the mona lisa complete with smile. If you control the components of your learning as you knit you will get there much faster. For example, keep daily, weekly and monthly logs of your knitting activities. Each time focus on what you can do to further improve your knitting. Then periodically go back and review. Push yourself continually raising the bar. Set yourself increasingly difficult knitting assignments. That is called controlling the components of your learning.

Clarity of Goals

• Do you prefer the goals you are trying to meet in your challenges to be clear or ambiguous?

I have very large goals off in the distance, but they are not crystal clear. I definately believe in taking baby steps towards my goals. Each day you want to be thinking what you can do to get closer to your goal. My goals are like obessions. I think about them all the time. But that may be the INTP speaking. Before you know it the baby steps will have become sasquatch strides relative to where you started from.

• Why do you have this preference?

It works. I've been doing it for several years now. It's not perfect, but it's how I continually reinvent myself.

Level of Confidence

• How do you react when you overestimate how easy a task is, and find out that it is much more difficult than you anticipated? Do you consider it a challenge?

The P in my wants to go back to sleep at this point. Then J comes along, kicks P's lazy ass off the sofa and drags him back to work.

• How do you react when you overestimate how difficult a task is, and find out that it is much easier than you anticipated? Do you then consider that you have lost a challenging opportunity?

Feedback

• How often do you require feedback from your challenging situation for it to be fullfilling?

My current challenge is building automated trading systems. Making money is postive feedback.

• How do you know if you are getting too little feedback?

Margin call.

• How do you know if you are getting too much feedback?

 

[nightning]

It's hard for me to understand the difference between confidence and arrogance. It doesn't feel like there is one to me.

The main reason I dislike that feeling is because it makes me think less of people who can't do what I can, especially if it's part of their job to be able to do that. For instance, once I felt condescending towards an administrator because they couldn't figure out the details of how to manipulate a database which weren't difficult for me to understand, and it seemed to me that someone who worked that closely with such a thing ought to know more about it... especially since I believed it was part of their job to understand it. And I would have found it easier to feel respect for them if I didn't understand more than they did.

What I've found is that knowing I can do or understand something only makes me irritated with people who either can't or won't try, and creates a feeling that I'm better than them in some way. I really don't like that feeling.

But I can understand why it brings you happiness... you're an NT, after all.

What I don't understand is why must one be NT to enjoy challenges? I'm not one, but I sometimes like them.

For me, tackling problems isn't really about confidence nor arrogance. The end result, if you succeeded does feel nice, but the process itself is fun. I guess the difference for me between fun and stressful is a matter of how "into" the task I am. If I'm involved in it, focus on the task such that I'm not thinking about the outcome, then I don't feel stress. Not thinking about it you see... just tackling the challenge... kind of like when you're in the game.

The main reason I dislike that feeling is because it makes me think less of people who can't do what I can, especially if it's part of their job to be able to do that.

Well that doesn't really apply for me. When I'm working on a problem, I'm not focusing on other people? I see the challenge as something that only pertains to myself. Whether other people can do it or not doesn't really matter. A challenge is only a challenge because I find it challenging. It might or might not be a challenge for somebody else. There are things that I can do easily that other people find difficult... and for other things, they find it dead easy but I can't do it at all. So the challenge is "relative" and I don't make that type of comparison.

 

[ygolo]

Well said nightning, you expressed how I feel about a challenge better than I could have.

Even if I screw-up completely, the fun is in the trying.

 

[dorcus0]

For something to be considered a challenge, it must be difficult. Difficult as in seems-to-be-beyond-my-current-capabilities. Of course, this is loosely defined. Getting my laundry done seems to be beyond my current (motivational) capabilities, so it's a challenge.
Challenges stop being challenges when they become impossible. As in, literally impossible. Or, when I've given up.

I say that for every challenge, there is a set of victory conditions that must be achieved. There must be clear goals. If there aren't any clear goals, then there is no specific thing to aim for, and therefore no specific challenge. And challenges must be specific.

If a task turns out to be harder than I thought it would be, it has become more challenging. That kind of challenging could be either fun or very stressful. If it becomes so challenging as to be impossible or effectively impossible, I just give up.
If a task turns out to be easier than I thought it would be, it has become less challenging. The challenge becomes more motivational. I may have lost a challenging opportunity, but there are many more challenging opportunities out there.

There's a saying in Starcraft: "scouting the enemy is most important before you make big decisions". Of course, it's difficult to get too much feedback. If it ever gets too much, I just take the pertinent bits and throw out all the rest. My "scouting" usually comes before I make the big decision of whether or not I take on a challenge. I know I'm getting too little feedback if I don't have enough information do decide whether or not I should continue or quit.

 

[Skyward]

Making a challege exhilarating depends on if its demanded by someone else. If I decided to do it I tend to enjoy it more until I find out I bit off more than I can possible chew and start choking.

I tend not to seek out challenge, though, and evne then not in large increments. I dont, say, switch the game mode to hard on the second play like my INTP friend does. I just enjoy playing the game.

The only problem with challenges is losing. I tend to beat myself up too much if I fail a challenge. I can rationalize it, but no dice, I still feel bad. That's the reason I don't seek them out because I know if I fail I'll just feel like shit.