Bullying

[So Long So Long]

I read it. I feel your pain, too. I wasn't bullied to the extent you were, but there was one group of kids who picked on me from elementary school all the way through part of high school. They weren't the stereotypical bullies in that they didn't steal my lunch money or cram me in lockers, but they always knew just the right things to say to make me feel awful about myself. It was continuous, too; I couldn't get a break. I tried about everything to get them to stop, barring physical violence. I tried ignoring them, reasoning with them, bribing them, talking to teachers, having my mom talk to their parents (that only made it worse), and making fun of them, instead, but none of it worked. Then, around tenth grade, they started to grow up, and everything was fine. By my senior year, I had a wonderful group of friends and was on good or neutral terms with everybody. Hopefully it will work out the same for you. Most bullies do grow out of bullying eventually.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that my bullies were stereotypical; I would say it was much more verbal abuse than being shoved into a locker. Though I did have my share of tripping/shoving, etc. In fact just last October I was walking into my school and a kid tripped me and I fell onto the ground hard - everyone was laughing, my book bag and everything inside of it had fallen out onto the ground and I did realize that my knee caps and elbow were both bleeding pretty badly until I ran up into my Science class. Ah, good times. I think for the most part I just took most of the bullying, to be honest. I didn't enjoy it, but there was no means of escape. My parent's and my school had let me down too many times before for me to try and put my false hope in their unstable hands again.

And I've been told that people outgrow being a bully, but I have yet to see it. Apparently once people hit High School they outgrow it, but I don't know. I mean, I remember one time when I entered into my Science class and a girl threw a penny and it hit me head, then she took a picture of it and recorded the conversation afterwords and wouldn't stop laughing and I'm pretty sure she sent it to all of her friends afterwords and I'd never done anything to her. Plus, there was a time where I was assaulted by perfume spray... But yeah. Sometimes people are just jerks and assholes for the rest of their lives and I really hope that some of those people burn in hell one day because they deserve it.

Thank you, though. It means a lot to me that you read it, even thought it was incredibly long. lol.

 

[BerberElla]

I wasn't bullied in school, I was protected by my height a lot of the time, plus my father would have beaten me senseless if I allowed anyone to win a fight at school.

I hated bullies though, my closest friends were all type of kids other people would pick on, and I would wait for the bullies outside of school and terrorise them for fun.

It was fun actually, Their tough act would vanish when they came out of those school gates to see me there. I didn't waste time with insults either, I just dived straight at them.

I guess this made me the bully, since I made their life hell and I was the teachers pet at the same time, but I only targetted people who attempted to bully people weaker than them.

I started a new school when I was 15, I wanted a fresh start and didn't want to get into fights so I had a different attitude on the first day of school. By the end of the week I had some girl trying to bully me with her gang.

I did what I was told to do, I turned my back on her and went to walk away, and she and her mates attacked, stupid girl really shouldn't have done that.

When I was finished with her she was off school for a week, and her mates avoided me as much as possible. She came back but was so jittery around me, according to all the weaker kids I spoke to, she had been bullying them for years and they were all over the moon to see her so broken.

I wasn't, I hadn't wanted to be that person again.

If my kids were being bullied I would tell them to fight back, it's honestly the only way (I know) to deal with bullies. Hiding behind your parents or the teachers only makes it worse.

Then again my ISFJ friend put her son in kickboxing, and he hasn't needed to fight back. Because his confidence increased through the lessons, his demeanour changed, and this must have pushed the bullies away from him because now he doesn't get bullied and is truly enjoying school.

 

[iwakar]

I hated bullies though, my closest friends were all type of kids other people would pick on, and I would wait for the bullies outside of school and terrorise them for fun.

This screams ENFP to me. In fact, you strike me as a reserved ENFP. I know it's a derail, but I felt compelled to note.

I encountered bullies in 5th and 9th grade. It was hell.

 

[Fingers Superstar]

I've been bullied and been a bully myself, I relentlessly teased other kids, even kids who were bigger and beat me up. I suppose it became a sort of coping mechanism. I regret it now because I was harsh in certain cases, when I came to that realization I never teased anyone again.

Nietzsche - What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

 

[BerberElla]

This screams ENFP to me. In fact, you strike me as a reserved ENFP. I know it's a derail, but I felt compelled to note.

I encountered bullies in 5th and 9th grade. It was hell.

Thanks though, it's helpful.

 

[Lark]

I think bullying's linked to aggression and it's generally either proactive or reactive, reactive is get out of my space, pro-active is some how goal orientated and its much worse, likely to be repetitive and correspond to or reinforce any sadistic traits operating in its author's personality constellation.

It's a difficult one, as an adult intervening in bullying behaviour, well, I work in a childrens home and we're trained to de-escalate situations, always, even if that involves removing the stimulus, ie the victim/target (this is similar to how some bouncers are trained to operate you know), and, secondarily, teach some kind of emotional intelligence lesson, identify the feeling, identify the behaviour, link it to consequences, recommend an alternative behaviour when those feelings arise again. I cant say that either practices are ever achieved that seamlessly or smoothly in practice.

In my personal experience though I find that reacting with overwhelming force or rebuke is all that works, sometimes in minor encounters perfectly mirroring the inappropriate aggressive behaviour of another is sufficient to get some kind of result, ie tone, raising your voice, without escalating the situation to a physical confrontation.

Recently I did that with someone who rudely shouted at me across a waiting room that I couldnt read when I had not seen a sign saying that eating was prohibited, he'd neglected to speak to me any of the times I asked in a lowered tone if it was permitted to eat and I didnt see any sign, the guy was perturbed enough simply by my mirroring his behaviour that he implicated his young son in his behaviour and I felt that demonstrated he was a coward aswell as a jerk.

When I was younger I found that if someone picked on me at school generally they'd leave me alone if they discovered that I'd over react, most aggression is simply "get out of my space", at least in the animal kingdom. I experienced two cases where this was not the case, one of which was, in retrospect with an adult understanding, bizarre and sexualised and I'd conspired to make it something that someone in authority with responsibility simply couldnt ignore. They had to deal with it to my satisfaction then.

I've experienced lousy managers who bully their staff or just about anyone else and pass it off as forcing people out of their comfort zone or some BS like that, they generally get scared if you play them at their own game. I responded to deliberate pressurisation once by reminding a manager of their health and safety obligations to their staff and they advised me they couldnt talk to me because they thought that I was initiating a formal grievance.

Sometimes its impossible to win in those situations and fighting it out just makes you ill but I take comfort in the fact that anyone like that wont be able to contain their BS to their jobs, its bound to spill over to their other relationships and ultimately they're miserable, whether they fully acknowledge it or not.

Anyone who bullies, especially those who pass it off as something else, generally likes to submit to a higher authority and brutalise subordinates, the the personality Eric Fromm suggested naturally gravitated to fascism or something like it, I suspect they find modern life more frustrating than anyone else.

 

[Lark]

I've been bullied and been a bully myself, I relentlessly teased other kids, even kids who were bigger and beat me up. I suppose it became a sort of coping mechanism. I regret it now because I was harsh in certain cases, when I came to that realization I never teased anyone again.

Nietzsche - What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

I guess I have bullied people too, when I was a teenager a went through a phase of becoming the thing that I feared the most and was pretty thuggish as a consequence.

The irony was that I was popular enough because most of my energies where devoted against some pretty anti-social people, my mature adult self tells me that it wasnt really a good enough excuse but anyway, I couldnt sustain the cruel behaviour it took to remain top dog and eventually met someone bigger, meaner as I was "going soft".

Karma gets them all in the end.

 

[wildcat]

When I am bullied here, I am invariably told, "It's just a joke".

This is the way bullies hide their bullying. They hide it behind a joke.

And this is a very good technique as many here hide their immaturity behind a jokey mask - it almost seems reflexive.

And those who have yet to discover their own voice and style, bitterly resent those who have.

And it is this immature, bitter resentment that leads to bullying.

And this kind of resentment is better described in French as ressentiment.

And it is so ugly, it must be disguised as a joke.

And calling it a joke puts the victim off guard.

But such jokey behaviour is the norm here.

It provides the perfect cover for bullying.

It is about resentment yes. What is the other factor?
Hiss the flag up .. do not leave it in the half mast.

Resentment and . . . . . to resent. Five letters.
Too hard?

Okay. I help.

Resentment and . . W . . to resent. Four letters to go.

 

[mortabunt]

So long needs a lot of hugs. Her life sounds like a long version of summer camp for me. I know what it is to be bullied badly. I know this guy, who turned an entire 400 people against me. That's 400 people telling you you're worthless and retarded. Even the authority actually helps him. Everyone loved him and hated me. [edited] The OP is stronger than I am. I'm impressed that she has such strength. Keep it up, you'll get through it!

 

[Fingers Superstar]

So long needs a lot of hugs. Her life sounds like a long version of summer camp for me. I know what it is to be bullied badly. I know this guy, who turned an entire 400 people against me. That's 400 people telling you you're worthless and retarded. Even the authority actually helps him. Everyone loved him and hated me. [edited] The OP is stronger than I am. I'm impressed that she has such strength. Keep it up, you'll get through it!

You sir need your head examined.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Ehh indeed. It's a scary thought that you're walking about with a ticking time bomb in your skull.

You know, it's not that hard to realize that bullies don't make you who you are. It's you, yourself, that has full control on that. If you are to look for any culprits as to who fucked you up you should look in the mirror first, because that's where the problem seems to be.

I've been bullied occasionally, I never cared about it though. Could usually laugh about it. I've always been very apathetic towards stupidity. Unless they do something that get me in an awkward position. I'd usually find a way to swing the embarrasment back towards the bullier, preferably in front of as many people as possible. It's quite effective.

But dude, walking about with certainty that you are capable of murder and will comply with that if you get the oppertunity is sickening.

Get over yourself.

edit: I'm assuming you're open about it because you too realize that this can't be the proper course of action and are sampling peoples opinions to get a better sense of direction in your life. So, with that assumption, work on this, and find a better solution to your problems. Starting with yourself.

 

[sculpting]

Thank you, though. It means a lot to me that you read it, even thought it was incredibly long. lol.

I read your story too. College will be much better. You will not be strapped onto a herd of folks, and instead can find peers who are more like you.

I got picked on some in school as well, however I became very good at being invisible, so avoided much attention.

My son is in seventh grade. In fifth grade some of the other kids stopped seeing him as a funny class clown enfp and started making fun of him, tripping him, calling him wierd and goofy, and some of them were being very hateful and very mean.

I took him out of the public school and put him a charter science academy. He is now surrounded by mostly NTs and turkish kids. He is still goofy, but overall much happier.

You should see these poor kids try and play basketball, ....

 

[mortabunt]

Ehh indeed. It's a scary thought that you're walking about with a ticking time bomb in your skull.

You know, it's not that hard to realize that bullies don't make you who you are. It's you, yourself, that has full control on that. If you are to look for any culprits as to who fucked you up you should look in the mirror first, because that's where the problem seems to be.

I've been bullied occasionally, I never cared about it though. Could usually laugh about it. I've always been very apathetic towards stupidity. Unless they do something that get me in an awkward position. I'd usually find a way to swing the embarrasment back towards the bullier, preferably in front of as many people as possible. It's quite effective.

But dude, walking about with certainty that you are capable of murder and will comply with that if you get the oppertunity is sickening.

Get over yourself.

edit: I'm assuming you're open about it because you too realize that this can't be the proper course of action and are sampling peoples opinions to get a better sense of direction in your life. So, with that assumption, work on this, and find a better solution to your problems. Starting with yourself.

Mostly, harmless. The inner rage is great for when I need to get something doen, so I keep it around. I wouldn't have anywhere near as good as 2k as I currently have without it.

 

[Lark]

Perhaps it deserves a thread itself but the people capable of killing tend to be the most unlikely candidates for it and some of the people who do kill or are expected to, like soldiers, armed police or security, dont exactly fit that category perfectly, training can only do so much.

Dealing with the consequences or attendant feelings is a different matter again.

I dont believe that bullying would be sufficient to desensitised someone altogether to the point of being easily capable of killing, simply looking for a chance and I hold with the idea that what's happening here, either consciously or unconsciously, is a sampling of opinions. I've been there myself, in retrospect it seems a pretty adolescent way of behaving but, well, I was an adolescent at the time.

 

[FemMecha]

I'm interested in the relationship bullies have with their mothers. The stereotypes like Cartman on South Park or Fenton on Home Movies depicts their mothers as too sweet and passive. Sometimes the opposite can be true as well, I think.

I've been amidst the bullies, but mostly deflected it by being socially quiet. There are a lot of bullies who indulge their own feelings of self-pity to the point they feel entitled to act in such an asymmetrical manner towards others. It's often a combination of feeling powerless and having the opportunity to act out in an oppressive way towards something weaker that creates a bully. They have to learn that acting mean and oppressive towards safe targets gives them a feeling of security. Bullying is in its way a need for reassurance that one has personal power. It has to constantly be proven. You can't be strong and stable inside and act like a bully. Those two mindsets are incompatible. A person defines their inner strength based on the "opponents" they choose. Now someone who is strong inside and aggressive by nature will pick on someone their own size or bigger.

It is difficult to watch children having to face these things. At least internet bullies have no actual power. Their "attacks" are more like when you visit your friend and their miniature schnauzer keeps humping your leg. It's not pleasant, draws more attention to you than you would choose, and you can acknowledge the sincere effort on their part, but it's hardly victimizing.

 

[mortabunt]

Perhaps it deserves a thread itself but the people capable of killing tend to be the most unlikely candidates for it and some of the people who do kill or are expected to, like soldiers, armed police or security, dont exactly fit that category perfectly, training can only do so much.

Dealing with the consequences or attendant feelings is a different matter again.

I dont believe that bullying would be sufficient to desensitised someone altogether to the point of being easily capable of killing, simply looking for a chance and I hold with the idea that what's happening here, either consciously or unconsciously, is a sampling of opinions. I've been there myself, in retrospect it seems a pretty adolescent way of behaving but, well, I was an adolescent at the time.

So am I. Thank god I know discipline.

 

[thisGuy]

i dunnnoo...last real bully i remember, i pushed him back ONCE, and he never bothered me again

high school, people came across as bullies at first but weren't really...we ended up becoming good friends and we still keep in touch...it was men testing men...see what everyone is made of and how low do our balls hang

 

[Kingfisher]

I would wait for the bullies outside of school and terrorise them for fun.

It was fun actually, Their tough act would vanish when they came out of those school gates to see me there. I didn't waste time with insults either, I just dived straight at them.

I guess this made me the bully, since I made their life hell and I was the teachers pet at the same time, but I only targetted people who attempted to bully people weaker than them.

you are the Robin-Hood of bullies.

 

[CzeCze]

Did I post here somewhere?

I got bullied in middle school by one particular girl who was kinda a loser herself IMO. The last day of the quarter I turned the tables and did everything she tried to do to me - I attempted 2x to pants her in PE and when she wasn't looking, I yanked her hair HARD in French class. I even laughed about it and would show off to other kids to show them how amusing it was. She had absolutely no reaction each time, I think I cowed her into showing her true colors. She never bothered me again.

In middle school, I was still quite social and I had a lot of friends. I was not a "popular" kid and in fact considered myself a reject but I had friends who truly liked me and I thought of myself as a gatherer of fellow rejects and misfits.

This middle school bully was the classic 'weak' bully. People who don't have much social standing or sway, are basically not part of the 'popular' group themselves and/or don't have a lot of confidence or killer instinct.

Slap 'em down once and that's the end of it. What sub said in the OP was true - you may have to get truly nasty about it, but these kids (and adults) have a lot more bark than bite.

A lot of street harassers are like this too. For whatever reason, they've gotten away with being absolute idiots. But as soon as you snap back something at them, they are stunned and will either back down or yell unintelligbly because you made them mad. Either way, you bested them and you can walk away satisfied.

Then there are just straight up jerks. I've seen them in school, I've seen them in the workplace. These bullies are harder to handle.

These bullies I really think are slightly sociopathic or see everything as a will to power with real hierarchies and to them, they need someone to bully. These people must lack basic empathy IMO and are just straight up nasty. Or else they are very tough and base a lot of their self-image on how many other people they can slap down.

When I was bullied in highschool, it was much more severe and it was a group of girls. These girls (and boys) were the other, harder to deal with bullies - they were popular OR they were just straight up mean and it was a group-think thing. Some of the girls got perverse pleasure from harassing me.

Bullying was part of the culture and they valued themselves on how tough and on top of the food chain they could be.

I guess I used my indirect ENFP-ness to win over the school for the most part by the my senior year. I almost got elected to student council, the head girl who realy harassed me would joke and laugh with me by the time I was a junior, etc. I think some of the guys who used to bully me and I became "friends" (this quickly ended in college when I came to)

My motto in highschol was, 'I will make all you fuckers like me!?!?!?!'

For the most part, it worked.

From my experience, there are always many potential allies for the bullied. These potential allies are usually kids who are not popular but they aren't unpopular and they are accepted as part of the majority of the social fabric of highschool (or your workplace). These kids may not stand up for you when you are getting bullied, but they take no pleasure in seeing anyone bullied and if you befriend them and get yourself into the mainstream social fabric of the school or whatever community you are in - bullies have a much harder time of targetting you. It especially helps if you are able to befriend someone with a lot of social pull - a popular kid, a star athlete, etc. Once people see that you are "in" with the majority, most potential bullies back off and look for other targets.

This all sounds so calculated but from what I remember of highschool - :shudder: adolescence and school is a giant alternate universe and microcosm of the basest social mechanisms and it really makes you realize that people, "in general", can be idiots.

I know that totally sounded un-ENFP.

Again, I do back up from expereince what Sub said about 'standing up for yourself'. It's like with any street fight, if you do stand up for yourself you have to be ready to go so far to slap the other person down. Bullies can read self-doubt like a flashing strobe light and if you make a half-hearted attempt at standing up for yourself, it will only make things worse. However, if you come back at them with an equal or greater amount of fire, most bullies will be cowed and back down or at least think again before bullying you again.

 

[mortabunt]

You sound ENFP, but seriously, the world is brutal. I think it demands a more T response, because beeing feely about it will get you psychologically killed.