[MBTI General] Ask An ISTJ About Si!

[Owfin]

Does Si bewilder you? Go ahead, ask away!

Well, sort of. I'm a rather young ISTJ, so that means no questions about love or anything else that would require much life experience to give a proper answer to.

 

[SubtleFighter]

I'll start things off!

What are some common misconceptions about Si?

And what's the real deal?

(I'll ponder this topic some more and see if I can come back later with more pointed questions)

 

[JocktheMotie]

Does Si bewilder you? Go ahead, ask away!

Well, sort of. I'm a rather young ISTJ, so that means no questions about love or anything else that would require much life experience to give a proper answer to.

Such a Si statement.

Bronies 4 lyfe.

 

[Owfin]

I'll start things off!

What are some common misconceptions about Si?

And what's the real deal?

(I'll ponder this topic some more and see if I can come back later with more pointed questions)

Some common misconceptions are:

• It operates on appeals to authority
• It is like a photographic memory
• It doesn't delve far into things
• It slavishly adheres to convention

A total description of what Si is like would be reaaalllly long, and it would have to include all the facets people are looking for, which just might be impossible. So instead I'll address the above points:

It operates on appeals to authority: Not Si, because Si, being introverted, is disconnected from the world (Si might look at information about the world already internalized, however, but it is not the actual world it deals with, but an individual's own perception of it) That might come from an extroverted judging function, though maybe not even that, because to extroverted judging, what makes an authority's subjective opinion any better than it's own, as any subjective judgement is suspect to Je. So this may really have roots in a inferior or especially tertiary Ji, because tertitary functions try to blow themselves up and appear "well developed".

It is like a photographic memory: Si is looking at information already internalized, and therefore, information in some sort of memory, short term or long term. In math terms, memory is the independent variable.

It doesn't delve far into things: Hoo boy... Si can be described to be like a cutting laser. It shines light in a narrow focus, but it cuts very deep into something. Of course, the laser can be moved to point at a different aspect, which is how Si grows. Si looks at different aspects of a situation separately, until the entire thing is illuminated (pretend the laser "paints" areas it has already seen with permanent light).

It slavishly adheres to convention: Depends on what you mean. Si focuses on things that have been, but in its searching in an idea/thought/whatever, it can find new details about it. Si is about how you find information though, not how you use it.

 

[Giggly]

What about details? Do SJ's get caught up on and enjoy details?

I know that Si is concerned with depth of a Sensory experience rather than breadth of Sensory experience, but the type that I've noticed become most caught up on details in the sense that people accuse SJs of is INTPs. I think INTPs make me feel that way because they really value precision or accuracy (forget which one but those terms are different) and so that makes them appear to be caught up in details.

 

[Owfin]

What about details? Do SJ's get caught up on and enjoy details?

I know that Si is concerned with depth of a Sensory experience rather than breadth of Sensory experience, but the type that I've noticed become most caught up on details in the sense that people accuse SJs of is INTPs. I think INTPs make me feel that way because they really value precision or accuracy (forget which one but those terms are different) and so that makes them appear to be caught up in details.

Well, we don't get "caught up" on them because we have experience with seeing the world with Si, so we don't get trapped in details. INTPs have Si as a tertiary, so it isn't as versatile as an SJ's Si because it hasn't been exercised so extensively (a Si dominant has experience with seeing everything with Si, so it is really good).

 

[Adasta]

Can you elaborate on how Si relates to the physical body, to its state and its "signals"?

I use tertiary Si, but recognise it more as a function that plays a part in memory ("X reminds me of Y, which was like this and that."). I'm not sure I am as aware of its relationship with the body. Is it that Si-doms are good at recognising a state (e.g. cosy) and then trying to recreate it if they liked that state?

 

[Owfin]

Can you elaborate on how Si relates to the physical body, to its state and its "signals"?

I use tertiary Si, but recognise it more as a function that plays a part in memory ("X reminds me of Y, which was like this and that."). I'm not sure I am as aware of its relationship with the body. Is it that Si-doms are good at recognising a state (e.g. cosy) and then trying to recreate it if they liked that state?

Well, it can often show up in tertiary form as nostalgia or sensual comfort, but Si is something that Si dominants apply globally.

We can take states, or ideas, or thoughts, or other things and recreate what we saw the last time we examined those. Once we have "figured out" something, we store our observations in our memory. It is personal, in a way, because we are just storing our own perception/observation of it. That perception can include a sensation, like "cozy".

 

[Istbkleta]

Once we have "figured out" something, we store our observations in our memory. It is personal, in a way, because we are just storing our own perception/observation of it. That perception can include a sensation, like "cozy".

How to convince an ISTJ to honestly reconsider something they've already "figured out".

I think an ISTJ has made long-term decisions based on obsolete data and understanding of the world. Some of the new decisions I want to offer are quite unconventional.


Thanks for the nice topic (Fe).


Another question: How to develop Si and integrate it in my personality? What are the tricks to survive and thrive when making Si-heavy decisions.
Except "cozy" what other feelings does it evoke?

 

[Owfin]

How to convince an ISTJ to honestly reconsider something they've already "figured out".

Evidence. Think of it like disproving a scientific theory.

Another question: How to develop Si and integrate it in my personality? What are the tricks to survive and thrive when making Si-heavy decisions. Except "cozy" what other feelings does it evoke?

Question 1. Hmm, don't know much about this.
Question 2. What's a "Si heavy decision"?
Question 3. I notice that I felt X emotion with Si, but I don't feel that emotion.

 

[Istbkleta]

Question 2. What's a "Si heavy decision"?

A decision made based predominantly on the Si preference while making compromises with the other preferences.

For example most of my decisions are done so they:
1. Ensure the maximum possible freedom for change in the future.
2. Maximum efficiency - maximum effect with minimum effort.

Other considerations suffer - emotional impact on people, on myself, security, etc.

I can imagine it's the same for other types and imagine their decisions based on their first functions.

 

[Owfin]

A decision made based predominantly on the Si preference while making compromises with the other preferences.

For example most of my decisions are done so they:
1. Ensure the maximum possible freedom for change in the future.
2. Maximum efficiency - maximum effect with minimum effort.

Other considerations suffer - emotional impact on people, on myself, security, etc.

I can imagine it's the same for other types and imagine their decisions based on their first functions.

Oh, I see now.

To integrate Si into your thinking, you could consider Si in the context of Ne-ti. Like, you can't travel all over the world if you spent all your money on chocolate.

 

[Istbkleta]

Oh, I see now.

To integrate Si into your thinking, you could consider Si in the context of Ne-ti. Like, you can't travel all over the world if you spent all your money on chocolate.

What leads you to say that?

Perhaps there is a way to travel around the world without money or eat chocolate without money or travel while eating chocolate. In my mind there is no doubt it's possible even if I don't know how to right now or I don't know the possible opportunity cost which might be prohibitive (like giving up family to start a career as a chocolate sales representative for Asia). I have faith it's possible and faith I will find a solution if I look into it.

An ISTJ told me something similar regarding his schedule while on vacation. He said I would try to do everything I could think of while he prioritized and did only a fraction of what I "saw" as possible to do.

You see how different the outlook on tasks is? Because of this and because Si is my Anima (and Ne yours) I ask you to attempt to explain and pinpoint the "knot" in your mind which gives you this knowledge of what is possible, what not and hence what needs to be done. The internal process and the convictions that lead you as an ISTJ.

Is it based on previous experience (as Si descriptions would suggest)?

I am giving you my Ne-Ti POV hoping it might be helpful to establish some common ground for communication so we understand what the other means (on the inside of our heads).

I read somewhere that Ti realizes words are metaphors for internal processes that can't be shown to others and seeks maximum precision in words to maximize the commonalities in the used metaphors. Based on INTP posts I can tell this way of speaking is troublesome to read and hope the topic sparks your interest (my Fe speaking .

Type theory is fun!


EDIT: A better example for Ne-Ti: I take a gulp of water and look at the label and it says: "Spring water". I am used to seeing "Mineral water". This is what Si looks like from as a fourth (semiconscious. After 50 years ... I am 30) to Ne-Ti (me):
Memory of looking upwards toward a hill and bungalows on top. And a spring there and me being very thirsty but also realizing there is a lot of logic in the idea of fecal waters going downwards and mixing with the natural water flow fed by the vast forests in the mountains (more expensive land to use so we don't bother and call it reserve . Kind of that emotion. Why the fuck am I drinking "Spring water" instead of real mineral water that went deep, got mixed with the rocks under high temperature which destroyed anything organic. Life ... in a five-minute break of Ne-Ti. Tiring. I guess that's why they say the fourth anchors our first so it doesn't go unchecked all the time

 

[Owfin]

What leads you to say that?

Perhaps there is a way to travel around the world without money or eat chocolate without money or travel while eating chocolate. In my mind there is no doubt it's possible even if I don't know how to right now or I don't know the possible opportunity cost which might be prohibitive (like giving up family to start a career as a chocolate sales representative for Asia). I have faith it's possible and faith I will find a solution if I look into it.

An ISTJ told me something similar regarding his schedule while on vacation. He said I would try to do everything I could think of while he prioritized and did only a fraction of what I "saw" as possible to do.

You see how different the outlook on tasks is? Because of this and because Si is my Anima (and Ne yours) I ask you to attempt to explain and pinpoint the "knot" in your mind which gives you this knowledge of what is possible, what not and hence what needs to be done. The internal process and the convictions that lead you as an ISTJ.

Is it based on previous experience (as Si descriptions would suggest)?

I am giving you my Ne-Ti POV hoping it might be helpful to establish some common ground for communication so we understand what the other means (on the inside of our heads).

I read somewhere that Ti realizes words are metaphors for internal processes that can't be shown to others and seeks maximum precision in words to maximize the commonalities in the used metaphors. Based on INTP posts I can tell this way of speaking is troublesome to read and hope the topic sparks your interest (my Fe speaking .

Type theory is fun!

For your first question, I was just trying to come up with an example.

But for the main question, I can be aware that there could be a lot of ways to travel when you are broke in this situation, but unless I was deliberately brainstorming them, I wouldn't focus on it. I guess I narrow it down by isolating the highest probabilities/plausibilities and leaving out the others (This is probably Te-Fi). Narrowing down and selecting probabilities to inspect seems like Ne being filtered through Te and Fi. I make it seem like Si will come in fairly late, but the previous narrowing down doesn't take very long at all. When I'm narrowing down probabilities, I often feel like I'm mentally herding and thrusting them in "no way" pens and "perfect!" corrals and stuff in between, like the "maybe I'll consider this for later" cabinet at lighting speed. I usually have some sort of criteria tailored to the situation and a little pinch of gut feeling too, and this gets rid of ones not really worth considering seriously. After this, I dip into a little more Si-involved examination of them. Now I look at them more like ideas to investigate instead of data to be filtered through. I evaluate and compare them with other ideas. There is still a sense of sorting, but it instead of checking off points from a generic list, I'm checking the unique points of the ideas.

But the fun really starts when I have narrowed it down to one idea (I often technically narrow it down to more, but if they aren't a "unit" of thought, they are mentally cleaved and are independent concepts). Now I dive deep down and I examine them not as something to put a rubber stamp of validity on, but as a idea, not colored by trying to prove it. My drive is not to find new ideas, but to dive into ideas so wonderful and so beautiful that I can stay and observe and find new layers and connections and just... burrow my mind in. Of course, I have other drives too, but I have a natural inclination towards diving into thoughts. I try to figure out the world from what I have found. On on hand, I don't objectively see the world as it is (though, does anybody?), but only my idea of it. On the other hand, it can go much more in depth.

 

[skylights]

tell me some about the magic in Si.

i know it is tangled up in the magic in Ne.

 

[highlander]

How do you use Si and Ne together (dual functions)?

 

[Owfin]

tell me some about the magic in Si.

i know it is tangled up in the magic in Ne.

Finding new layers and relating different parts of a concept together. I love elegance. Te might tell me "It doesn't matter if it's elegant if it isn't real", but I nevertheless have a fondness of it. When I look into the core of an idea and I find elegance, that is magical and delightful. I feel sometimes as though my thoughts are a coral reef that I dive into, with life in every niche.

How do you use Si and Ne together (dual functions)?

Ne seems to be when I notice things. I notice possibilities or opportunities. After they get filtered through Te and Fi, Si is when I analyze and go into what's already there in my mind. Kind of like unpacking a box.

 

[skylights]

Finding new layers and relating different parts of a concept together. I love elegance. Te might tell me "It doesn't matter if it's elegant if it isn't real", but I nevertheless have a fondness of it. When I look into the core of an idea and I find elegance, that is magical and delightful. I feel sometimes as though my thoughts are a coral reef that I dive into, with life in every niche.

beautiful.

 

[Uytuun]

What is the difference between Ni and Si in your opinion?

 

[Owfin]

What is the difference between Ni and Si in your opinion?

Ni seems to create a future concept of how they want things to be and look into it with the same conviction I would to a concept that is existing. They seem to say "Oh, I want a treehouse" and then once they have an idea of a treehouse, they can start waxing on the feeling of being in a treehouse. It seems a bit strange to me. They see what they are working towards as the "big picture". It doesn't seem to be bigger or smaller than my own picture, but where I consider understanding my own current information to be crucial, they consider it essential to understand their prediction of the future. To me it seems like a bit of a waste of effort, because the future is unreliable. Below I put my idea of a argument between very disagreeable versions of them (I apologize if I make it seem like Ni is worse or has worse arguments- it's just that I can create reasonable Si arguments much more easily than Ni ones because I am familiar with a Si line of reasoning):

Si: "How do you know what a treehouse is like?"
Ni: "I know what my treehouse is going to be like."
Si: "But how? You've never been in a treehouse."
Ni: "Well my idea of a treehouse has me feeling like X"
Si: "That doesn't make it true."
Ni: "Is your motto 'prove it' or something?"
Si: "No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that you can't make observations about events that haven't happened."
Ni: "You can predict."
Si: "But you are talking about the future like it actually exists right now!"
Ni: "You are so stuck in the past!"
Si: "You think that the future is going to be one way just because you think it is!"
Ni:
Si: