[MBTI General] Are ISFJs the better INFJs ?

[Quinlan]

Yes ISFJs are objectively better than INFJs, it is the natural order of things, god has decreed it.

The order goes something like this:

1.ISFP
2.ISFJ

*daylight*

3.INFJ

*daylight*

everyone else.

 

[Quinlan]

It takes a lot of humility to type yourself as S,

 

[violaine]

Hehe, I think it is funny and sweet that you probably won't get any INFJs disagreeing with this. It's got to be near impossible to get the INFJs and ISFJs to argue.

 

[weakshadeofblue]

The thing that annoys me most about my fellow INFJs, at least online, is the whole "I am psychic, I can read everyone's motives and mind accurately, and I have never been wrong about anyone, not even once in my life."

Haha, that's true.
Honestly, I never even gave .02 to my intuition before taking the MBTI. Then I was like, "I'm supposed to have INTUITION? And be PSYCHIC? Okay! That sounds pretty awesome!" And now I think I'm reading into things, whereas before I would always tell my 'gut,' "You don't have all the facts..."

I think there's definitely something to be said for -anyone- to listen to their intuition a little bit. But to take it as the gospel truth... is another matter.

And (at least for me), as arrogant as I may come across sometimes (or at least I see it in myself), I am a perfectionist and very rarely happy with myself. There's always something I need to learn, some virtue I need to live up to more, etc... I'm pretty good at recognizing my own weaknesses and mentally/emotionally flogging myself over them.

Entropie:
If you don't like the MBTI, then why are you placing a lot of stock into it? I think it was C.S. Lewis who once said that if something helps you further understand yourself and the world [whether it's MBTI or something else], then take it and use it, but if it doesn't - leave it.

And I don't think that type makes a person. I think it can enlighten people to attributes about themselves that they previously couldn't ever articulate, but I don't think it -forms- a person (unless they took it out of not knowing who they were and then proceeded to form their identity from a profile - which is obviously unhealthy).

I'm just saying - if you don't agree with the MBTI, then don't feel like you HAVE to take and use the information presented by it. I personally found it illuminating and it helps me understand the people around me in a different way (so now my struggle is, as someone else mentioned in another thread, remembering not to view people -only- as their type).

To everyone else...
You DO realize that there's an INFJ hate thread, right? Because a lot of this stuff is good hate-material and I haven't seen it on that thread - so go add it!

 

[entropie]

Okay, but you could have put this thread in the NF section if all you wanted was INFJ's attention. ISFJ's have feelings.

Hell no, I especially hoped for ISFJ input on that one. I tried to use the idea aswell to get to know more people from this side of the forum. I see it was a mistake to label the thread the way I did, I didnt really want to get the whole sum of INFJs down here.

Hehe, I think it is funny and sweet that you probably won't get any INFJs disagreeing with this. It's got to be near impossible to get the INFJs and ISFJs to argue.

Ya after all I am talking to woman and they do such things behind the back, I didnt account for that .

And (at least for me), as arrogant as I may come across sometimes (or at least I see it in myself), I am a perfectionist and very rarely happy with myself. There's always something I need to learn, some virtue I need to live up to more, etc... I'm pretty good at recognizing my own weaknesses and mentally/emotionally flogging myself over them.

I am a perfectionist myself, I tho dont see why this automatically forces you to be arrogant. If you have a strong enough foundation of self, things from the outside dont really have to concern you that much no more. You then can concentrate on the people you can talk too and just nod and smile in the direction of the people you cant talk to. Of course this status quo is at the end of a long journey and will most likely be never reached 100%, but I wouldnt feel for me that it would help me to walk the path, if I find excuses for wrong turns I took on the road and justify them for myself, instead of working on a solution.

Entropie:
If you don't like the MBTI, then why are you placing a lot of stock into it? I think it was C.S. Lewis who once said that if something helps you further understand yourself and the world [whether it's MBTI or something else], then take it and use it, but if it doesn't - leave it.

Well first of all, if you start somewhere in life at point zero (what everyone does) you wouldnt know what exactly can help you to further understand yourself. If you grow up with different literature or in a different environment there is the possibility that you can become a different human being than lets say in a parallel universe.

Secondly me not liking mbti is the result of a process not a state. When I came here, I was in search of answers too and I still am and the things presented by the test I do like. Most of all I like the language it creates for foreign people to communicate to each other.

But I also see the dangers in it nowadays, which leads to point 3:

And I don't think that type makes a person. I think it can enlighten people to attributes about themselves that they previously couldn't ever articulate, but I don't think it -forms- a person (unless they took it out of not knowing who they were and then proceeded to form their identity from a profile - which is obviously unhealthy).

You have got a very idealistic image about this but I think the reality is different. If type doesnt form people, why are then some people ever changing their types again. One could say: because they think their choosen type doesnt fully say who they are and so they try a different.

But are people really that objective ? Can someone really measure himself and assess his strengths and weaknesses in such a way he can purely obejctively analyze who he is are ? I rather think it's more likely for people to choose a type by preferance of who they subjectively want to be. The best example is me joining this site. When I did the mbti I scored ENTJ but when I signed up here I typed ENTP cause I found the description of the NTJ really hard and didnt wanted to be seen that way.

Of course that is what the whole concept is about. MBTI is a test of preferance so your likely type will be someone you prefer to be. I could live with that any day, the test then would be like a modified and better version of astrology things.

But and here comes the kicker, mbti is used for job assessments in your country and I think at this moment the line between dreamworld and reality is crossed. Because then your mbti type becomes an issue for your real life and if this is an ongoing process then in a future in a mirror badly, an ENTJ can never become a Kindergarten teacher.

I hope you see what I mean, I never actually meant I dont like MBTI, on the contrary I like the idea very much; what I am afraid of is the humans dealing with it and what they make of it in the future.

 

[PoprocksAndCoke]

I've been lurking around the NF forums for quite some time now and I have been searching there for someone to help me with my personal problems, like for example psychologists help. I tho have a misfit way of speaking about my things, which didnt get noticed with any of the psychics over there (except for one or two enfps, who really have a knack for such things).

Instead I met arrogance, abusive behaviour, the occasional bragging about them being like god, when it comes to their abilities or sheer ignorance.

So I came to think: An ISFJ, who types her-/himself that way from the start and who doesnt even assume for the slightest moment that he is special in any way, because she or he for example never achieved anything special so far (which would be prolly the case with 90% of the Ns), isnt she or he much more down-to-earth and more realistic + able to look at the world from an (as much as that is possible) objective point of view and to give people real world advice and help, cause he isnt blinded by his own ego ?

I dont want to discredit all of the INFJs over there, but I am still refering to around 90%.

Any thoughts ?

I'm not arrogant and definitely not "special" in any way.
Actually, I came to this thread planning to tell you to fuck off, but you're an ENTP plus I like your boldness. And just you in general.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

The thing that annoys me most about my fellow INFJs, at least online, is the whole "I am psychic, I can read everyone's motives and mind accurately, and I have never been wrong about anyone, not even once in my life."

There seems to be a lot of that out there. How arrogant! I have to say that if you have run into that attitude a lot, I don't blame you for being put off.

All types tend to put confidence in their ability with their dominant (and to a lesser extent auxiliary) function. INFJs are not special in this regard. Introverts are probably more likely to emphasize what they are good at because the introverted functions tend to go unnoticed or underappreciated in the outside world. Psychic might be pushing it, but to say the combination of Ni+Fe doesn't have a heads up on insight regarding people is being unnecessarily politically correct, IMO. Every type has their strength.

But I'll stop intruding on the INFJ self-flagellation going on in this thread...

Actually, I came to this thread planning to tell you to fuck off, but you're an ENTP plus I like your boldness.

To the OP: No, INFJ and ISFJ are two separate types with separate strengths and weaknesses.

I believe in myself, but I'm not arrogant. As far as being abusive -- only to you, my love.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I guess to ever try to rationally explain myself was the wrong approach from the start.

Well do go on

You do everything but rationally explain yourself. Let's just be honest.

 

[entropie]

If you think so. Except insults I dont get anything other from you.

But you explained arrogance. Coming to a thread with the intent to tell someone to fuck off but then changing ones opinion cause you like the person.

That's the same like the riddle in which you have to decide who lives and who dies, the friend or the total stranger.

I am not expecting that you change yourself in any way to be respectable, I am just trieing to find out if someone cares for such things at all, cause I am looking for people who do. And as far I havent found this attitude in many INFJs and that is probably why I am disappointed in my own expectations.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

^

I wasn't going to tell you to fuck off, I was just laughing at that comment.

As far as respect goes (if you're serious about me being disrespectful to you), I give to others what they give to me.

 

[entropie]

And the angel of innocence strikes again

I guess we will work that out never

 

[PoprocksAndCoke]

If you think so. Except insults I dont get anything other from you.

But you explained arrogance. Coming to a thread with the intent to tell someone to fuck off but then changing ones opinion cause you like the person.

That's the same like the riddle in which you have to decide who lives and who dies, the friend or the total stranger.

I am not expecting that you change yourself in any way to be respectable, I am just trieing to find out if someone cares for such things at all, cause I am looking for people who do. And as far I havent found this attitude in many INFJs and that is probably why I am disappointed in my own expectations.

Entropie, it was a joke.

 

[JTG1984]

we are better just bend over and take it like a man.

 

[FDG]

My understanding is that INFJs are happier ISFJs, INTJs are harder INFJs, ISTJs are stronger INTJs, ISFJs are nicer ISTJs. (yes, it's cyclic)

 

[PoprocksAndCoke]

^I agree with what he said.

 

[Giggly]

Hell no, I especially hoped for ISFJ input on that one. I tried to use the idea aswell to get to know more people from this side of the forum.

Ahh well, good to see you around these parts. I like your quirkiness and your jokes. It's a lot slower down here though.

If you want my opinion on the OP, I think most people don't fit into their MBTI type, and yes, I do think people of all types take credit for traits described in their type that they don't actually possess. People also constantly defy their type too. It's things like this that make me want to abandon the theory altogether. There are some really sweet INFJs on this forum though. Perhaps you could focus on those individuals.

 

[Space_Oddity]

No, INFJs aren't the better ISFJs, for the simple reason that INFJs and ISFJs are in reality two completely different kinds of people. It's like implying that ISFPs are the better INFPs, ESTPs are the better ENTPs etc. In theory, why not, but in reality, such a comparison is completely off, because these two types of personality, let alone individuals of those types, are not comparable. Similar MBTI 'letters' aren't everything, which is one of the reason why I think that MBTI terminology is seriously flawed, even though the grouping does have a point.

And entropie, I don't know you and haven't read your posts, but if I can give you advice, if you aren't in good mental health, keep away from message boards. From my own experience, it did me much more harm than good when I came there totally off-balance and desperately looking for help. The people on message boards most likely won't help you (even if they honestly try); they don't know you personally, they can never get enough details about your situation and therefore can't really provide you valid advice. And MBTI won't help in this situation. Once I also thought it might, but in the end the problem proved to be much more individual than type related, and I believe it is like this 99,9% of time.

 

[entropie]

It's a metaphor and ty for the advice

 

[Grace]

I've been lurking around the NF forums for quite some time now and I have been searching there for someone to help me with my personal problems, like for example psychologists help. I tho have a misfit way of speaking about my things, which didnt get noticed with any of the psychics over there (except for one or two enfps, who really have a knack for such things).

Instead I met arrogance, abusive behaviour, the occasional bragging about them being like god, when it comes to their abilities or sheer ignorance.

So I came to think: An ISFJ, who types her-/himself that way from the start and who doesnt even assume for the slightest moment that he is special in any way, because she or he for example never achieved anything special so far (which would be prolly the case with 90% of the Ns), isnt she or he much more down-to-earth and more realistic + able to look at the world from an (as much as that is possible) objective point of view and to give people real world advice and help, cause he isnt blinded by his own ego ?

I dont want to discredit all of the INFJs over there, but I am still refering to around 90%.

Any thoughts ?

Probably.

 

[Space_Oddity]

It's a metaphor and ty for the advice

You're welcome. Taking the advice or not, I hope you'll get better soon.

Yeah, I get it, and it was a useful 'metaphor' because lots of the posts in this this thread did have a point. But it just doesn't feel right comparing one type of people to another because it's individuals who are good or bad people, not types. Any types. And the INFJ and ISFJ 'principle' is in reality fundamentally different, so it's no use comparing them, not even metaphorically, imo.