Are certain parts of certain types of cognitive behavior therapy(CBT) wrong about the thought->feelings->behavior loop?

[ygolo]

I have been to therapy that used Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT), and it has helped tremendously.

I was taught something close to this version of CBT in particular:

The CBT Model of Emotions

A free online workbook designed to teach you the most powerful cognitive behavioral therapy skills for depression, anxiety, and many other psychological problem...

cogbtherapy.com

In particular the following diagram for the model of emotions stuck with me:

Note in particular the "thoughts create feelings" portion of the model.

Generally speaking, being aware of how thoughts, feelings, and behaviors affect each other are an integral part of all therapies. However, in particular, what has worked best for me, is the part of the model where thoughts create feelings and become aware of that helped me shape my thoughts and it helped significantly.

Here is someone touting this:

Best News Ever: Thoughts Create Feelings | Laura Buckley Coaching

Did you know? Our thoughts create our feelings. And when we learn to tap into our thoughts, we gain greater awareness and understanding of our feelings!

laurabuckleycoaching.com

But one thing that ought to be abundantly clear is that one can have feelings with no thoughts attached, and neuroscience is indicating that physiological responses related to feelings actually seem to happen earlier than the thoughts that seem to cause them actually happen. I cannot seem to find the studies right now, and may be I have it wrong. I would love to be corrected.

Here are some people who say that feelings precede thought:

Thinking and feeling: what's the difference? - FutureLearn

Professor Mark Solms of the University of Cape Town discusses the difference between thinking and feeling, and the role that instinct plays.

www.futurelearn.com

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-spite-yourself/201909/feelings-first-or-second (Though talking about percentages of brain activity is a Red Flag for me).

And Quora goes back and forth:

Do emotions precede thoughts or thoughts precede emotions?

Answer (1 of 11): This may seem counterintuitive. Thoughts produce emotions. And emotions produce behavior.. Behavior is then met by reactions of others which modify our thoughts. So it's like a cycle. And that's why we continue to encounter variations of the same experience until our thoughts /...

www.quora.com

What's your take?

 

[Luminous]

I agree with you. It's neither strictly one or the other, it seems to me.

 

[The Cat]

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[KitchenFly]

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This thread has been playing on my mind I posted a response to the topic before your reply and as an INFP I got spooked by the simple logic T and though I had made an error and have only just realized that what I posted as a reply was vaid.

I think my reply was, I think energy follows thought and leads to attitudinal lead generated biases.

And after I sore your mechanical illustration I got spooked thinking I was wrong that I did not fully understand the system and that my error was part of larger pattern of errors in my thinking Like thinking that There was a quantum biological underpinning to direct cognition. So I deleted my reply to hide an immediate sense of shame. I did not want to be seen as being a fool.

Then after my auto reaction of deleting my comment I felt secure in thinking I had hidden any failing or trace of error (my ESTJ one wing) lead action I then felt comfortable and was I amazed by the simplicity of the mechanical action depicted in the simple diagram.

I intuited its simplicity and though my idea much have been wrong and I thought that diagram reminds me of the up down spin of a Qubit and I thought simply did not have the pattern of the; Thoughts create feelings - Feelings create behaviour - Behaviour reinforces thoughts - trinary loop clearly understood in mind.

Now it accers to me Like my instinctual stack bias I follow the focus of one over the other two as I go about my day responding and reacting within my world view.

I neglected to recognise or tried to not see the symbolic relevance of the three inner cogs as not being equal in size. Now I think the center cog represents my selfs self impotence primary bias viewpoint and the other two inner cogs as being the two lesser recognised action within the trinary and the outer cog as being The Attitudinal lead generated biases I use to reinforce the stability or my egoic mind sets trance equilibriums/ means.

So thank you The Cat for posting that mechanical diagram. It still reminds me of a Qubit and it reminds me of my egoic mind set being in a lower mechanical order stuck in a lower pattern of bias lead cognitions.

I do not have a science math based understanding of psychology so I am curious dose the mechanic depicted in your illustration reprizent closely, a real mechanics in the chemistry of cognition? Or is It an impression of a metaphysical operation of minds action as apart of a hole action?

My apologies If I did not recall exactly my original posted rely I had deleted.

This is an interesting subject its complexity is settle I feel as if to view the hole mechanic would maybe overwhelming as it may also be liberating if embrace freely free of egoic judgments. I say this because I had a interest bref Phase shift for perhaps a second or two before my egoic mind set caught up and renormalised. The phase shift was or seemed to be Base shift for a moment as if I experience an other tear another base of a normal state in conchesness. Maybe that was part of my learning process.

I spend much time running my egoic mind speaking about a higher state to myself without aculising any action of attainment things like I remember when aand it's the worlds folt as to why I cant switch on.

My T function and S function within my INFP seem to be used by myself as a defence to shield to keep my cognition at rest instead of switched on and processing the flow of Higher input.

So if the image engine mechanic you sheared is like a Qubit component of the electromagnetic component action, within the electricity, associated with the operations of brain, body, heart and mind the top spin or top cog for me maybe Behaviour reinforces thoughts, the center cog maybe Feelings create behaviour and the down spin of cog maybe Behaviour reinforces thoughts and all three reinforce my low entropy lower energy comfort state that I prefer to sustain. The outer cog would represent my egoic set of attitudes as a norm my general experience of self.

I am wondering what a configuration representing the Higher Centers of Higher emotion and Higher thinking may look like as a mechanical representative Fig/ diagram may look like.

I think I am a visual lead type of person I like to see a mechanic action visually understandable. The logic falls into place via the images representation depicted.

Cheers.