about Si

[INTP]

i have noticed that people on these forums(and in mbti function descriptions) put way too much weight on Si's recalling the past factor and leave out the fundamentals of Si(as jung described it) out completely. so i decided that i should clarify Si to you guys.

first of all, even tho Si is totally dependent on object and objective stimuli, its still very much a subjective perception. would be fair to say that its a totally subjective perception of objective stimuli.
jung used nice example about this in his book; "If, for instance, several painters were to paint the same landscape, each trying to reproduce it faithfully, each painting will be different from others, not merely of differences in ability, but chiefly because of different ways of seeing; indeed, in some of the paintings there will be a distinct psychic difference in mood and the treatment of color and form".
now ofc the same thing happens with all types, but Si is ruled by this sort of subjective perception of objective stimuli.
naturally the subjective perception can be totally in line with the objective stimuli. that doesent happen because the Si user is perceiving the objective stimuli as it is, but because the objective stimuli happens to match with the subjective impression of the stimuli.
now when it comes to recalling past events and comparing it to past moment. its not the objective factors that Si is comparing the events to, its the subjective perception/impressions of the past event that Si compares the subjective perception/impression of the current even to. so its not about comparing to what happened to whats happening in its pure form, its the subjective perceptions/impressions that are being compared.
while Se is being guided by the intensity of the objective stimuli, Si is guided by the intensity of the subjective impressions of the objective stimuli, not the intensity of the objective stimuli.

feel free to use this on that type wiki thing

 

[Such Irony]

Interesting take on Si. I also remember reading (I think from Jung) that many visual artists are dominant Si types.

 

[INTP]

Interesting take on Si. I also remember reading (I think from Jung) that many visual artists are dominant Si types.

its not an interesting take on Si, its how Si is defined to be originally. i dunno how its defined in mbti books, but when people have done some quick function descriptions they always leave this maybe the most important aspect of Si away for some reason that doesent make any sense to me.

 

[KDude]

This isn't exactly related, but there are some other interesting observations he made that don't line up with MBTI IFJ and ITJ. He goes so far as to say that introverted irrationals (Pi leading) have a certain "cut off from society" quality about them... almost as if he's calling some of them emo or socially inept. I mean, he seems to be observing the same phenomenon people nowadays tack on to INPs and some ISPs, but in Jung's estimation, these are Si and Ni dominant types instead.

Recapitulation of Introverted Irrational Types

The two types just depicted are almost inaccessible to external judgment. Because they are introverted and have in consequence a somewhat meagre capacity or willingness for expression, they offer but a frail handle for a telling criticism. Since their main activity is directed within, nothing is outwardly visible but reserve, secretiveness, lack of sympathy, or uncertainty, and an apparently groundless perplexity. When anything does come to the surface, it usually consists in indirect manifestations of inferior and relatively unconscious functions. Manifestations of such a nature naturally excite a certain environmental prejudice against these types. Accordingly they are mostly underestimated, or at least misunderstood. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. They cannot see that their outward-going expression is, as a matter of fact, also of an inferior character. Their vision is enchanted by the abundance of subjective events.


What Myers brought awareness to was that introverted leading functions weren't easily seen or expressed often. Secondly, she emphasized that her "system" was meant to describe healthy, balanced types (rather than functions in isolation, like Jung seemed to focus on). In the case of Si and Ni dominant, rather than being cut off in their private world of subjective perception, they balanced it with Extroverted Judgement. Pi didn't have complete dominance over their attitude. Rather, their attitude was shaped by what they deemed appropriate in conjunction with Te and Fe.

In the case of Fi and Ti doms, she thought that they were more lowkey and somewhat unreadable in their judgement. They engaged the environment with the auxiliary instead: Ne or Se. Types that shared traits with the Extroverted Sensor and Intuitive, but are more subjective, evaluative of their experiences, and disinclined to engage with the same level of enthusiasm and rapport as Jung's Extroverted Perceiver. In effect though, some of these types (like ISTP and ISFP) become subjective (via Ji) interpreters of their sensory perceptions (Se). It makes me wonder how much different or if there's overlap with Jung's Introverted Sensing type.

 

[INTP]

first of all, who is this quote from? "He goes so far as to say that.." who? jung? why cant IP and IJ types be both kinda cut off from society?

 

[KDude]

first of all, who is this quote from? "He goes so far as to say that.." who? jung? why cant IP and IJ types be both kinda cut off from society?

That's a quote at the end of the Si and Ni section of Psychological Types.

edit: Yeah, Jung.

It's not that IP types couldn't be cut off, but it sounded like he gave a more dramatic spin to nature of Introverted Perception. Possibly since it was both Introverted and Irrational.

 

[INTP]

i know what irrational and rational mean, i got that book. its just the way you write, i dont understand what you mean with any of this. i dont even understand why you wrote what you did, what was the purpose for all those words..

 

[KDude]

Well, fuck me. lol

Carry on then, asshole.

 

[Thalassa]

What KDude said made perfect sense.

K, erase that. Don't get yourself into trouble over him. He's not worth it.

 

[wolfy]

what was the purpose for all those words..

You didn't read it properly...

This isn't exactly related, but there are some other interesting observations he made that don't line up with MBTI IFJ and ITJ...

lol. here is a good song... Led Zeppelin - Communication Breakdown

 

[INTP]

Well, fuck me. lol

Carry on then, asshole.

 

[Thalassa]

Whether or not you realize it, what you said came across as condescending, like he didn't express himself well. However, what he wrote made perfect sense, you just didn't understand it or agree with it.

 

[INTP]

Whether or not you realize it, what you said came across as condecending, like he didn't express himself well. However, what he wrote made perfect sense, you just didn't understand it or agree with it.

i just said that i dont understand what his talking about and asked some questions so that he could clarify few points to me, so that i would understand what his saying. if you get some aspects of me being condescending with what i wrote before(not now), there is something wrong with you.

 

[wolfy]

first of all, who is this quote from? "He goes so far as to say that.." who? jung? why cant IP and IJ types be both kinda cut off from society?

i know what irrational and rational mean, i got that book. its just the way you write, i dont understand what you mean with any of this. i dont even understand why you wrote what you did, what was the purpose for all those words..

It's the wording. It comes across as condescending and antagonistic.

 

[Thalassa]

i just said that i dont understand what his talking about and asked some questions so that he could clarify few points to me, so that i would understand what his saying. if you get some aspects of me being condescending with what i wrote before(not now), there is something wrong with you.

How interesting that three of us saw it. And now you're saying there's something wrong with us.

Splendid. Extraordinary.

 

[INTP]

How interesting that three of us saw it. And now you're saying there's something wrong with us.

Splendid. Extraordinary.

i didnt mean it that way, and if you read it in a different way that i meant it, you understood me wrong, because you assumed that there was something there that wasnt there.

 

[Thalassa]

Well three xxFPs interpreted what you said in that way.

I've also noticed other FPs noticing your ...communication style.

Apparently you aren't meaning to be rude.

Just like sometimes people read my posts and think I'm upset, when I'm not upset at all. Sometimes I'm even joking or being silly.

 

[wolfy]

i didnt mean it that way, and if you read it in a different way that i meant it, you understood me wrong, because you assumed that there was something there that wasnt there.

When I reread it, it didn't seem like you were trying to be rude. I really think it was just the way you put it, it sounds dismissive.

first of all, who is this quote from? "He goes so far as to say that.." who? jung? why cant IP and IJ types be both kinda cut off from society?

If you reword it as...

who is this quote from? "He goes so far as to say that.." jung?
why cant IP and IJ types be both kinda cut off from society?

it doesn't seem the same. At least to me.

Then...

i know what irrational and rational mean, i got that book. its just the way you write, i dont understand what you mean with any of this. i dont even understand why you wrote what you did, what was the purpose for all those words..

i dont understand what you mean with any of this. i know what irrational and rational means but i dont understand what you mean with any of this.


You seem like an okay guy as far as I can tell. I don't know if KDude should have jumped down your throat but I can see why he felt that way. Hope this makes sense.

 

[INTP]

i really dont care, if people imagine some meanings to something i say that arent true and get pissed off, its their problem.

 

[Orangey]

What is the purpose of this thread?