23 signs you are secretly a narcissist masquerading as a sensitive introvert

[Lexicon]

I got a very high score, but I'm not constantly seeking external validation. I got it due to low self-confidence. The test metric is flawed anyhow.

Most tests are flawed in some way.

Incidentally, I'd edited my phrasing in the post before I'd noticed you had responded to it, because it occurred to me that commenting with my own visceral reactions might come off as abrasive, and easily misinterpreted (as raw feeling tends to often do).

I wasn't speaking in absolutes when making those statements, and I wasn't referring to you directly. My sentiments about how fragile and empty on some level it must be day to day for someone who agrees with most of those statements still stands as my own subjective feeling about the concept. Regarding the external validation part - There are a handful resentful statements in that questionnaire that seem entitled and bitter because said external needs went unmet. Such an existence would be miserable to me, personally. I wouldn't pretend to know what you agreed with or didn't agree with on the survey, so again, in no way was I trying to insinuate anything about you, or judging you harshly.

A high score sounds like a distressing way to live, no matter how you slice it. I wish you well and I'll leave it at that.

 

[/DG/]

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] - Eh, no need to apologize. I didn't take offense to it. I just randomly decided to respond. My score probably wouldn't normally be that high anyway.

 

[wolfnara]

I got an average score of 66! Most of the questions were fairly relatable except those about being envious of other people.

 

[Olm the Water King]

The article starts out with some pretty problematic premises. The first one is in the title itself. Those things are not mutually exclusive. There are extraverted narcissists as well as introverted narcissists. Narcissism is not about intro/extraversion. As for sensitive, pretty much all narcissists are extremely sensitive, so I'm not sure why that's an issue anyway. Btw, I'm not sure what "genuine sensitivity" is. Of course there are different kinds of sensitivity both in terms of intensity as well as in terms of what triggers them. But I don't think the brain is divided into "genuine" and non-genuine parts. I'm not even sure how that would work. If a person feels deeply hurt by something minor or even something imagined, that's extreme, maladaptive sensitivity. It's their brain firing up in a way that could be considered maladaptive, but I'm not sure what "genuine" has to do with it.

That's just one of its problems though. The other one is the article's attitude which is kind of like "Aha! If you're a narcissist, fess up and change! SHAME!" Never mind the fact that any personality disorder is a deeply rooted survival and defense mechanism that has been building up for a large part of a person's life and is going to take years to change even with the right treatment, which, by the way, isn't about attacking the person's psyche like a bulldozer (that actually makes the defenses stronger), but is a gradual process made up of empathetic confrontation with the maladaptive traits (usually, the patient feels understood for the first time in their life when this is done properly), to which more and more personality-changing methods are eventually added. It's a kind of dialectic process. It's made up of 50% understanding and emphasising and 50% getting the person to change. If there's too much of one or too much of the other, it NEVER works.

 

[Riva]

Tehe

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] Do you think any of the questions actually measure narcissism? Do you think it's possible for someone to overreact in a harmful way without being a narcissist?

I don't think all the questions measure narcissism (edit: but they do mostly refer to self-centeredness - my point is that there is a correlation, but the term 'narcissism' is loaded and extreme /edit). Yes, it is possible for someone to overreact in a harmful way w/o being a narcissist (edit: if they feel regret /edit). I've been thinking about this because there is an apparent inconsistency in my former post. I refer to narcissists not caring about the feelings of others and also overreacting in a harmful way. It is because their feelings are based on disrespect and entitlement. The don't care about the feelings of others, but they do care about insult and having inferior beings bother them. That enrages them. Here is one way to look at it.

There are different kinds of sensitivity. Let's imagine two people of equal status in terms of knowledge, power, etc. have an exchange where one is critical and the other overreacts with too much sensitivity.

The overly sensitive person experience hurt feelings and insecurity because they hold the criticizing person in high esteem. They respect that person's opinion and feel disappointed to not receive their approval. The feelings are sadness, disappointment, self-questioning, etc. Other people's opinions and feelings are too important.

The narcissistic person experience annoyance, insult, and anger because they hold the criticizing person in lower esteem than self. The underlying reaction is one of disrespect, almost like a mosquito is biting them and needs to be destroyed The feelings are annoyance, insult, anger, even rage. Other people's opinions and feelings have no importance, except when they get in the way, and then they must be extinguished.

Also, people can be very self-centered and still not be actual narcissists. Over-sensitivity can make a person think about their own feelings to an unhealthy, self-centered degree, and selfish, arrogant people can be too self-centered as well. Narcissism is taking it to the extreme that other people are not consciously recognized as human beings, but as objects to be manipulated. Their feelings are as important as insects and sometimes just as annoying. There is an almost sincere blankness in place of empathy for the narcissists. The needs of others as actual needs does not register in their brains. Needs in others are seen as mechanisms to control behaviors and outcomes in others that may serve self.

 

[gromit]

58

I think that's true. I'm probably medium introvert, medium sensitive, and medium narcissist.

 

[prplchknz]

58

I think that's true. I'm probably medium introvert, medium sensitive, and medium narcissist.

i think that describes cats

 

[SpankyMcFly]

52

The question that made me go "HUHN?!"

"I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why."

How do you NOT know why?

 

[SpankyMcFly]

23 Signs You’re Secretly a Narcissist Masquerading as a Sensitive Introvert - Beautiful Minds - Scientific American Blog Network

Thoughts? Do you know people like this? (Let's not name names or call people out, I'm asking more in general.)

Are YOU like this? Feel free to take the mini test and post your score. Average for college students is mid 60s. Below 40 you're not very narcissistic (everyone has particular concerns about oneself). Above 82 or so, you might be a covert narcissist. Above 97 you almost certainly ARE.

What types (Enneagram or MBTI or other) does it correlate with? I think it aligns fairly closely with disintegrating type 4s, whose chief vice is "envy".

I'd be curious to see how this relates to Are You Highly Sensitive? if at all. HSP's

 

[Ene]

43.

[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] cool thread.

 

[uumlau]

I got 85. That seems to be the highest in this thread. Do I win?

But here's the thing. I already know I am extremely self absorbed. This much has always been very obvious. However, this test seems entirely flawed to me. It seemed to focus on questions that relate to low self-confidence, which does not solely relate to narcissism. Additionally, isn't a narcissist defined as someone extremely self absorbed because they love themselves? I am the opposite.

From Wikipedia: "Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's own attributes."

Yeah, the meaning of "narcissism" is kind of plastic, here. Most all of the DSM definitions are extremely subjective, and cannot be measured objectively. (Technically speaking, the DSM is a typology!!! )

I think the key aspect to narcissism is that while it might appear to be "self love", if you read into the overall disorder, it's more of an "overvaluing of one's personal importance", usually due to significant insecurities about one's self-worth. In my opinion (I want to be clear, here), I believe that seeing narcissism as a "reaction to insecurity" makes the personality dynamics the most clear.

I believe that the questions of the test that attempt to measure narcissism are in part trying to identify feelings of insecurity that are typical of a narcissist.

From what I know of you, DG, you don't seem to be the "I'm a special snowflake" covert narcissist that the article describes. You may have similar insecurities, but I don't see it in your behavior on the forum.

...

In the bigger picture:

A therapist once pointed out to me that we all start out as "narcissists". It's an essential part of human development: when you are a baby, it really is "all about you", and if your parents don't treat you that way to start with, we would call them bad parents. You can't feed yourself, wash yourself, clothe yourself, etc. Left alone, you would just die.

As we age, however, we have to gradually learn that it's less and less about us. Most people make this transition fairly awkwardly, I think. We usually need someone (usually parents) to put us in our place, to make it clear that we need to transition from receiving the benefits of others' labor to actually contributing to other people's benefit. We eventually arrive at a point where while we don't stop valuing our self-worth, but we do start valuing the presence of others in our lives for their own sake. Adults, then, are usually "somewhat narcissistic", but not narcissists.

Some people, however, can't let go of that childhood feeling of being important, and come up with coping mechanisms to preserve it. Those coping mechanisms are the typical narcissistic behavior. The article in the OP just expands the list of observable behaviors a little bit, to more covert/deceptive coping mechanisms to enhance one's feelings of self-importance.

 

[Amargith]

I wonder if narcissism (and other personality disorders, for that matter) is a direct consequence of actually not getting that much needed attention from the beginning - due to circumstances or bad parents or whatever.

Iow, if no one ever bothers to show you that you in fact do matter, welp, then it's up to you to protect your own interests coz nobody else is going to, that's for sure. In essence, it's desperately making up for what you were deprived of in childhood (and never fully getting there since as an adult, you can never get the same care that you would normally be entitled to as a baby, always leaving you wanting more). Not to mention that the fact that you have to do it yourself means you get confirmed over and over again that really, nobody cares about you and you're somehow not worthy of that kind of attention (and seeing others care about others would then of course enrage you as you were denied that very thing, which...ironically, due to your behaviour, you're likely to be denied even moreso as an adult).

/brainfart.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] I think that is very frequently true. And I think that's why narcissists are often children of narcissists, or other people who were too wrapped up in themselves to be a decent parent.

 

[Amargith]

^That's a good reason not to become a parent before you're really ready, right there, I'd say.

The level of loneliness, (justified in a way) anger and anxiety those people experience on a daily basis is something nobody should be condemned to.

It also makes you wonder if you can take away that pain and misery by giving them what they missed out on:

A parent/rolemodel who will love them unconditionally and wants to give them their full attention while setting the firm boundaries they need.

It's not that hard to understand wanting validation, admiration, encouragement and all those others things most people get to take for granted as it gets bestowed on them by their parents. And it would leave a gaping void in your self-esteem and trigger sibling rivalry with the rest of the world. People often say you have to love and take care of yourself first before you can love and take care of others.

I'd say narcissists (and co-dependents in their own way for that matter) are likely desperately trying to accomplish that in their own way, so they can get out of that hellish situation.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Yeah, the meaning of "narcissism" is kind of plastic, here. Most all of the DSM definitions are extremely subjective, and cannot be measured objectively. (Technically speaking, the DSM is a typology!!! )

I think the key aspect to narcissism is that while it might appear to be "self love", if you read into the overall disorder, it's more of an "overvaluing of one's personal importance", usually due to significant insecurities about one's self-worth. In my opinion (I want to be clear, here), I believe that seeing narcissism as a "reaction to insecurity" makes the personality dynamics the most clear.

I believe that the questions of the test that attempt to measure narcissism are in part trying to identify feelings of insecurity that are typical of a narcissist.

From what I know of you, DG, you don't seem to be the "I'm a special snowflake" covert narcissist that the article describes. You may have similar insecurities, but I don't see it in your behavior on the forum.

...

In the bigger picture:

A therapist once pointed out to me that we all start out as "narcissists". It's an essential part of human development: when you are a baby, it really is "all about you", and if your parents don't treat you that way to start with, we would call them bad parents. You can't feed yourself, wash yourself, clothe yourself, etc. Left alone, you would just die.

As we age, however, we have to gradually learn that it's less and less about us. Most people make this transition fairly awkwardly, I think. We usually need someone (usually parents) to put us in our place, to make it clear that we need to transition from receiving the benefits of others' labor to actually contributing to other people's benefit. We eventually arrive at a point where while we don't stop valuing our self-worth, but we do start valuing the presence of others in our lives for their own sake. Adults, then, are usually "somewhat narcissistic", but not narcissists.

Some people, however, can't let go of that childhood feeling of being important, and come up with coping mechanisms to preserve it. Those coping mechanisms are the typical narcissistic behavior. The article in the OP just expands the list of observable behaviors a little bit, to more covert/deceptive coping mechanisms to enhance one's feelings of self-importance.

Great post and spot on. The personality disorders are considered by some psychological theories as the person being stuck at an early development stage because their needs were not met. There is a process of awareness that begins with Self in an infant and gradually learns to comprehend a sense of Other, first with their mother and later with various people. Infants who experienced neglect can get stuck in the neediness of the toddler stage (this is pretty similar to what you are saying also, I think)

I wish there were more terms to describe the various levels of unhealthy self-focus, but the term 'narcissism' gets tossed around in place of self-centeredness. I've been guilty of over-using it myself, and based on how much it is used various places online, its actual meaning may be changing.

I would suggest a continuum that starts with:

1. Normal self-centeredness: to a degree that limits the person's ability to be fully healthy and happy, but the person is still functional in terms of relationships (although they will have some problems as a result, they are still able to be married, have a job, and function in a somewhat reciprocal manner with other human beings.)

2. Dysfunctional self-centeredness: in which the person cannot offer a reciprocal relationship with others and this results in consistently damaged and/or dysfunctional relationship. At work they may cause co-workers and employees to get sick, people may quit, they may get transferred, they may not be able to maintain a romantic relationship, or happy relationships with anyone. The difference here is that the person can feel remorse, they can at times feel empathy, but they just have too many issues to function in a healthy manner without harming the people they encounter. Such a person may be mostly stuck at the emotional comprehension of a young age in which they take, throw, tantrum, and need, but there is still some ability for reciprocity and remorse.

3. Narcissism: in which the person feels no remorse when harming others, they are not conscious of the needs and do not have a natural sense of empathy. Reciprocity is not an option, because people are comprehended as objects to be manipulated. They are locked into the emotional state of infancy. People who cause tremendous harm without remorse are examples of this. I watched Schindler's list the other night and one of the Nazi officers would get up and shoot a few random people in the forced labor camp before his morning coffee. This is an example of the mental framework of narcissism that has the capacity to completely disregard the existence of others. Schindler began as a rather self-centered person, but I would place him in the first category of "normal self-centeredness" which could not make the transition to cruelty and tyranny.

 

[Amargith]

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] So what about the difference and relation between narcissism and antisocial behaviour and of course sociopathy and psychopathy? How do they call correlate and differ from each other? Would you consider the guy from Schindlers list only a narcissist or was he actually a sociopath or psychopath as well?

 

[Seymour]

Yeah, the meaning of "narcissism" is kind of plastic, here. Most all of the DSM definitions are extremely subjective, and cannot be measured objectively. (Technically speaking, the DSM is a typology!!! )

Hah!

I think the key aspect to narcissism is that while it might appear to be "self love", if you read into the overall disorder, it's more of an "overvaluing of one's personal importance", usually due to significant insecurities about one's self-worth. In my opinion (I want to be clear, here), I believe that seeing narcissism as a "reaction to insecurity" makes the personality dynamics the most clear.

Actually, there's some evidence that many narcissists really DO think they are all that, all the way down. So I don't think the "narcissists are really insecure" is proven. It is true, however, that they must negotiate a mismatch between their own self evaluation and the evaluation of others, which can result in their defensive behavior. I agree that it represents a more primitive and childish relationship with the world, and one that prevents true connection.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I got a very high score, but I'm not constantly seeking external validation. I got it due to low self-confidence. The test metric is flawed anyhow.

Sounds like something a covert narcissist would say.

 

[/DG/]

Sounds like something a covert narcissist would say.

You're so hilarious. Would you like me to gaze into a mirror for an hour now?