23 signs you are secretly a narcissist masquerading as a sensitive introvert

[prplchknz]

You're so hilarious. Would you like me to gaze into a mirror for an hour now?

Yes

 

[magpie]

You're so hilarious. Would you like me to gaze into a mirror for an hour now?

If you're doing it because someone else would like it, it kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] So what about the difference and relation between narcissism and antisocial behaviour and of course sociopathy and psychopathy? How do they call correlate and differ from each other? Would you consider the guy from Schindlers list only a narcissist or was he actually a sociopath or psychopath as well?

I don't have a complete answer, but they are related in terms of a distortion of Self and Other. The Schindler's list guy is likely a sociopath perhaps more than narcissist. My definitions may be too extreme for the clinical terms, I'm really not sure at this point.

It may be because I have spent so many years in the performing arts, but my impression of social norms is that the majority of people are competitive, feel jealous of people who do better, think others are thinking and talking about them, feel insecure, feel entitled to win, etc. I don't know if my impressions are distorted though. Most of the questions on the test seem to fit what looks like the norm to me.

Consider that most people who are given a million dollars would not think twice about spending every penny on their own self. Who would say I didn't earn this, no, you take most of it. Who wouldn't accept a prize to be number one whether or not their skill objectively earned it. Does anyone ever say, 'no thanks, I can see other people are more qualified'.

I think it is a great thread, and the concept is important to explore. I did know one person who specifically identified as an empath who had very low empathy when you actually lived with her, but it may not be narcissism that she had. I'd guess that she would pass that test with flying colors. I think part of the reason I got into this thread is that I'm concerned that actually sensitive, normal people will go away with an internalized label that is not appropriate to what their actual issues are.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

There is one person I knew online that is the closest to what I could call a narcissist. He spoke of having an emotionally abusive mother who would yell at him whenever he missed a note during classical music practice. As an adult he managed an instrument building company and was famous for randomly flying into the factory screaming and yelling at everyone for doing it all wrong, and then leaving. I interacted with him online and he was highly critical, had meaningful knowledge and credibility, but was quite intense about always having to be the best. It was clear that he was honest about the emotional abuse because he had internalized it and continued to express it. His low empathy was combined with a need to win and be admired, although it still didn't feel like he admired other people enough to respect their opinion. It was more like being entitled to the assumption of being admired and offended when it didn't happen.

He considered himself sensitive to high standards, although he didn't identify as emotionally sensitive. I would suspect the narcissist who does that would tend to have a grandious idea of their sensitivity and would identify as an empath, perhaps a psychic, or having other extraordinary capacities that makes them separate and above the unwashed masses.

 

[Forever]

Whelp, I knew it. I didn't have to look at the signs to even know.

Apparently I just know.

I mean of course.

I mean why not?

I mean how not?

*flips hair*

#narcissism

#sufferthewrathofdoublespace

#hashtag

 

[sonictard]

Why 23 when 1 is enough.

 

[uumlau]

I don't have a complete answer, but they are related in terms of a distortion of Self and Other. The Schindler's list guy is likely a sociopath perhaps more than narcissist. My definitions may be too extreme for the clinical terms, I'm really not sure at this point.

While I respect psychologists, I am skeptical of regarding these terms as "clinical" at all. Just because a lot of people agree on an opinion doesn't turn that opinion into a true diagnosis. Being a professional psychologist doesn't make these issues more objective: if anything, they should be even more aware of how very fuzzy and subjective they are.

It may be because I have spent so many years in the performing arts, but my impression of social norms is that the majority of people are competitive, feel jealous of people who do better, think others are thinking and talking about them, feel insecure, feel entitled to win, etc. I don't know if my impressions are distorted though. Most of the questions on the test seem to fit what looks like the norm to me.

Ha!

They definitely don't look like the norm to me. I have been artistic all my life, with music, eventually with dance, and I even considered a career in music (I wanted to be a composer). But temperamentally I am sooooo not an artist. The "artists" I've known have been as you say here, extremely sensitive to how they're perceived by others, which results in jealousy, mean gossip, backstabbing, with lots of insecurity mixed in. Kind of a mixture of the 3 and 4 Enneagram types. It was that artistic temperament I observed that made it clear to me that I didn't want to follow that as a career.

Yet art, of a sort, is part of my career. Software Engineering is as much art as it is engineering or science. Some pieces are cut-and-dried. But assembling those pieces into a solution that other people actually want is an art, just as composing music that other people actually want to hear is an art.

And yes, I occasionally encounter people in this career who have that "artistic temperament" where it's all about their ideas, their code, and their self-worth. They're actually kind of rare, though. Prima donnas don't last long in this career unless they're very, very good at what they do, and even then they tend to get fired after they piss off enough people. (They tend to move from job to job, as their credentials are great but their attitude sucks.)

Consider that most people who are given a million dollars would not think twice about spending every penny on their own self. Who would say I didn't earn this, no, you take most of it. Who wouldn't accept a prize to be number one whether or not their skill objectively earned it. Does anyone ever say, 'no thanks, I can see other people are more qualified'.

Yes they do, though the motivation isn't what you might think. There is an irony about artists (as a type), where they are so scornful of needing "a day job", of doing something that isn't inspiring for a living like the most of the rest of us have to, and scornful of money in general - yet they tend to regard money as a measure of self-worth.

To me, money is a measure of how much what I do is worth to someone else. Also, at some point, the amount of money offered is NOT enough to make me accept the strings attached. And that's the part that is missing from your hypothetical: a million dollars always has strings attached. And if there are nominally no strings attached (e.g., you win the lottery!), strings will find you and attach themselves to you and quickly make your life miserable if you don't know how to set up new personal boundaries and deal with them accordingly.

I think it is a great thread, and the concept is important to explore. I did know one person who specifically identified as an empath who had very low empathy when you actually lived with her, but it may not be narcissism that she had. I'd guess that she would pass that test with flying colors. I think part of the reason I got into this thread is that I'm concerned that actually sensitive, normal people will go away with an internalized label that is not appropriate to what their actual issues are.

I think this is a very good point. Anyone who actually is introverted and sensitive will score fairly high on this test, in my estimation. Whether they're narcissistic is reflected only in very high scores, not just sort-of high scores. Narcissistic extroverts will tend to score rather low, as this test isn't set up to measure their particular brand of narcissism.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] So what about the difference and relation between narcissism and antisocial behaviour and of course sociopathy and psychopathy?

(I know this is directed to fia, but I've read a fair amount on this so I'm going to add a couple of cents. )

Narcissists (even extreme/NPD caliber) are capable of shame- they just really, really can't bear it. They unconsciously distort reality so that they never have to feel even trace amounts of it- which usually means dumping it on someone else, to externalize it. [Brene Brown defines shame as "the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging."] They manipulate the truth/shared reality to always come out smelling like roses- even to themselves, and they become extraordinarily adept at manipulating reality because they've spent their whole life honing this ability (however unconsciously). A narcissist might even feel an incredibly strong need to be considered empathetic by other people- but it's just a desired label to them, and they don't actually grasp the underlying concept (because ultimately other people are just extensions of their own reality). "Empathy" isn't always a part of their delusion of grandeur, obviously- the specific qualities of the 'false self' can vary.

To all those categories above, other people are nothing more than objects to be used. But a psychopath/sociopath wouldn't have trouble admitting that to himself- whereas a narcissist needs to believe otherwise, and will distort reality as much as it takes (to him/herself and others) to 'make' the contrary true and they'll believe the distorted version.

 

[Forever]

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Sounds weird I'm a feeling type and probably would be into people more, and I know it's not just you guys but why are you all into narcissistic people? (I know it's a bit more than that) Life experiences made you interested in people who only glorify themselves over others? I don't really find it all that interesting.

In fact I find it more funny than interesting.

 

[EJCC]

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Sounds weird I'm a feeling type and probably would be into people more, and I know it's not just you guys but why are you all into narcissistic people? (I know it's a bit more than that) Life experiences made you interested in people who only glorify themselves over others? I don't really find it all that interesting.

In fact I find it more funny than interesting.

I would suspect that the people who are the most interested in narcissists are 1) people who are afraid they might be narcissists, 2) people who have been affected/hurt by narcissists in the past (or are currently being affected/hurt by them), or 3) both.

 

[Amargith]

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Sounds weird I'm a feeling type and probably would be into people more, and I know it's not just you guys but why are you all into narcissistic people? (I know it's a bit more than that) Life experiences made you interested in people who only glorify themselves over others? I don't really find it all that interesting.

In fact I find it more funny than interesting.

For some of us, it isn't optional - it is part of an essential survival mechanism.

 

[prplchknz]

(I know this is directed to fia, but I've read a fair amount on this so I'm going to add a couple of cents. )

Narcissists (even extreme/NPD caliber) are capable of shame- they just really, really can't bear it. They unconsciously distort reality so that they never have to feel even trace amounts of it- which usually means dumping it on someone else, to externalize it. [Brene Brown defines shame as "the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging."] They manipulate the truth/shared reality to always come out smelling like roses- even to themselves, and they become extraordinarily adept at manipulating reality because they've spent their whole life honing this ability (however unconsciously). A narcissist might even feel an incredibly strong need to be considered empathetic by other people- but it's just a desired label to them, and they don't actually grasp the underlying concept (because ultimately other people are just extensions of their own reality). "Empathy" isn't always a part of their delusion of grandeur, obviously- the specific qualities of the 'false self' can vary.

To all those categories above, other people are nothing more than objects to be used. But a psychopath/sociopath wouldn't have trouble admitting that to himself- whereas a narcissist needs to believe otherwise, and will distort reality as much as it takes (to him/herself and others) to 'make' the contrary true and they'll believe the distorted version.

i know we're not suppose to gossip but the person has been banned and i'm ok with getting an infraction for this and i will not name names though to most it will be obvious as to whom i'm talking about.

There was a member on this site that i would interact with and numerous people ie like 3 or 4 kept saying to me be careful he is not what he seems, and i didn't listen because i don't do that always. and the thing is when he first joined he was very trolly towards me but then he started being nice to me so i figured oh he actually is nice. but looking back your post describes him to a t. towards the end things stopped adding up to a point i could rationalize them i mean i don't think they ever truly added up. and thats why i'm standoffish to overtly nice people or people saying how empathetic they are but sometimes like with him i let my guard down and that happens. I sometimes think i'm too forgiving to those who don't deserve 2nd chances and not enough to those who do. now this probably makes me sound like a narcissist, i just know most of the time i work in opposites.

 

[Forever]

I would suspect that the people who are the most interested in narcissists are 1) people who are afraid they might be narcissists, 2) people who have been affected/hurt by narcissists in the past (or are currently being affected/hurt by them), or 3) both.

Hmm. I did learn in my abnormal psych class that narcissists aren't even aware that they are ones. It is rare when one does know they are one, some psychologist don't even believe that is the case to be true.
I've been by maybe by one before, I think he had unhealthy 2 enneatype tendencies an ESFP. Would seem like he had his own rule system going on. Before I was a little interested in why he'd be like that, but I think it may have been being in the wrong environment for too long. Maybe I haven't really met with narcissists, I am really choosy with people so maybe that's why.

For some of us, it isn't optional - it is part of an essential survival mechanism.

Do you mean like certain cultures and societies need a narcissist to survive? To me it doesn't make sense. Could you explain?

 

[Amargith]

Do you mean like certain cultures and societies need a narcissist to survive? To me it doesn't make sense. Could you explain?

Some of us don't have the luxury of escaping narcissists. If you want to deal with something properly, what better way than to understand it? And some of us, for sure, due to our circumstances, have wondered if narcissism is perhaps a mental trauma we should address in ourselves.

 

[Forever]

Some of us don't have the luxury of escaping narcissists. If you want to deal with something properly, what better way than to understand it? And some of us, for sure, due to our circumstances, have wondered if narcissism is perhaps a mental trauma we should address in ourselves.

Do you mean what better way than to be one?
As I said to EJCC to be one while they are not aware of themselves being one, you're not really aware you're a narcissist either. So by that logic, I think not having NPD would be the better option. I'm pretty sure I walk by a few of them without giving attention to them but I say usually to those that have tiny narcissistic tendencies and are aware of it, aren't narcissistic themsleves. Like that saying: If you think you're crazy, you're not. If you don't, you are haha.

 

[Amargith]

Do you mean what better way than to be one?
As I said to EJCC to be one while they are not aware of themselves being one, you're not really aware you're a narcissist either. So by that logic, I think not having NPD would be the better option. I'm pretty sure I walk by a few of them without giving attention to them but I say usually to those that have tiny narcissistic tendencies and are aware of it, aren't narcissistic themsleves. Like that saying: If you think you're crazy, you're not. If you don't, you are haha.

Like I said - you're lucky that it's not something you have to worry about

I know I'm not, but yes I did ask a professional about it as my past put me at risk for it. And it's present in my family - those are people that will be in my life forever. Understanding them makes it possible for me to forgive them, move past any rage and
contribute to what they actually crave and need - not necessarily what they want. It's not an easy feat, so all information and input is welcome, in that regard.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I would suspect that the people who are the most interested in narcissists are 1) people who are afraid they might be narcissists, 2) people who have been affected/hurt by narcissists in the past (or are currently being affected/hurt by them), or 3) both.

This is in part true for me and it makes sense in general. There are a couple of additional reasons that people could respond a lot - and had some influence on my thinking as well.

Anytime you have a topic that is meant to expose secrets [X number] signs you are [something terrible] masquerading as [something good], there is an underlying social taboo to challenge the topic in any way. If there are issues on how the concept is being tested, there is an underlying social pressure to avoid saying anything for fear of "aha! you must be one because you don't like the test". If there are issues with the way the idea is being measured, then it makes it even more important to examine it further, but it has an awkward, socially uncomfortable feeling about it. Not to say that these aren't important topics to present, because they do challenge self-awareness and part of that social discomfort is a good thing. Both aspects of it makes it a topic important to discuss and debate.

There are also quite a few online introverts who have hyper-focus issues and so whatever they randomly focus on looks like a large investment.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Sounds weird I'm a feeling type and probably would be into people more, and I know it's not just you guys but why are you all into narcissistic people? (I know it's a bit more than that) Life experiences made you interested in people who only glorify themselves over others? I don't really find it all that interesting.

Not all narcissists overtly glorify themselves over others. In fact, in what I've read on the topic, I gather it's actually more the norm for them to be very charismatic- they have to be, to draw people in. They can be incredibly adept at figuring out how to get their 'foot in the door', so to speak, winning over someone's trust initially and getting others to invest in them and feel attached to them. It's only after some trust/attachment has been established that they start dumping their shame, and quite often it's done in micro-aggressive ways (so they can call a person 'oversensitive' or 'overreactive' if they get called on it). They're just usually super manipulative and have cultivated a sense of how much dumping they can get away with, with different individuals, to avoid really unwanted consequences.

And like [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] wrote, it's my experience that it's not really a choice. It can be a choice to recognize where it's a problem and to build resilience- but being susceptible to that type of dynamic in the first place isn't really a choice, because the attraction is largely subconscious and it takes a lot of work to become aware of it. Growing up in an environment where- as a child- there was little or no authentic attunement to their feelings from an adult caregiver can leave a person with a sort of blindness to knowing when this sort of 'dumping' is going on. Especially where it's microaggressive, it can be really confusing and difficult to figure out what's causing the person to feel bad.

***

But back to the topic of the op- I think the description in that article sounds more like garden variety narcissistic tendency (which I believe many- if not most- people can be pushed into, with enough stress and lack of support.....I know I have) than actual NPD. I couldn't really do the test because I find my answers vary according to context and/or who I'm dealing with- there's not a single generic rating/answer I can give to describe my experience of most of those scenarios (e.g. "I tend to feel humiliated when criticized." - it genuinely totally depends on who is criticizing me).

 

[Forever]

Not all narcissists overtly glorify themselves over others. In fact, in what I've read on the topic, I gather it's actually more the norm for them to be very charismatic- they have to be, to draw people in. They can be incredibly adept at figuring out how to get their 'foot in the door', so to speak, winning over someone's trust initially and getting others to invest in them and feel attached to them. It's only after some trust/attachment has been established that they start dumping their shame, and quite often it's done in micro-aggressive ways (so they can call a person 'oversensitive' or 'overreactive' if they get called on it). They're just usually super manipulative and have cultivated a sense of how much dumping they can get away with, with different individuals, to avoid really unwanted consequences.

And like [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] wrote, it's my experience that it's not really a choice. It can be a choice to recognize where it's a problem and to build resilience- but being susceptible to that type of dynamic in the first place isn't really a choice, because the attraction is largely subconscious and it takes a lot of work to become aware of it. Growing up in an environment where- as a child- there was little or no authentic attunement to their feelings from an adult caregiver can leave a person with a sort of blindness to knowing when this sort of 'dumping' is going on. Especially where it's microaggressive, it can be really confusing and difficult to figure out what's causing the person to feel bad.

What do you mean dumping their shame? Like guilt-tripping the user? Interesting that you say this. Tell me more.

 

[grey_beard]

23 Signs You’re Secretly a Narcissist Masquerading as a Sensitive Introvert - Beautiful Minds - Scientific American Blog Network

Thoughts? Do you know people like this? (Let's not name names or call people out, I'm asking more in general.)

Are YOU like this? Feel free to take the mini test and post your score. Average for college students is mid 60s. Below 40 you're not very narcissistic (everyone has particular concerns about oneself). Above 82 or so, you might be a covert narcissist. Above 97 you almost certainly ARE.

What types (Enneagram or MBTI or other) does it correlate with? I think it aligns fairly closely with disintegrating type 4s, whose chief vice is "envy".

Huh. 54.