23 signs you are secretly a narcissist masquerading as a sensitive introvert

[grey_beard]

I wonder if narcissism (and other personality disorders, for that matter) is a direct consequence of actually not getting that much needed attention from the beginning - due to circumstances or bad parents or whatever.

Iow, if no one ever bothers to show you that you in fact do matter, welp, then it's up to you to protect your own interests coz nobody else is going to, that's for sure. In essence, it's desperately making up for what you were deprived of in childhood (and never fully getting there since as an adult, you can never get the same care that you would normally be entitled to as a baby, always leaving you wanting more). Not to mention that the fact that you have to do it yourself means you get confirmed over and over again that really, nobody cares about you and you're somehow not worthy of that kind of attention (and seeing others care about others would then of course enrage you as you were denied that very thing, which...ironically, due to your behaviour, you're likely to be denied even moreso as an adult).

/brainfart.

Were those random thoughts, or based upon considering people you have seen and interacted with on the forum or IRL...?

 

[sonictard]

All US society is based on the narcissistic psychological matrix. NPS is highly emasculated structure, deprived of its nature. Narcissism is common traits of women, kids, homosexuals (men), deprived or traumatized persons as a way of compensation, and so on...Narcissism and hysteria (which means uterus; old greek) are common feminine traits.

 

[Amargith]

Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%).

Prevalence, correlates, disability, and comorbidity of DSM-IV narcissistic personality disorder: results from the wave 2 national epidemiologic survey on alcohol and related conditions. Found at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18557663

Not that it matters - both genders can be at risk for it


[MENTION=20856]grey_beard[/MENTION] eh..all of the above? Maybe? It's mostly observing, trying to understand people wherever I meet them, reading up on the topic (and fitting it into what I already know in general) and then...well letting my brain come up with crazy ideas. Usually, I find myself trying to empathise and ask myself how someone could really come to such a behaviour, what would motivate it and how it would logically progress and then backtracking it to the source if at all possible, because I want to know what it would be like to be them

 

[Z Buck McFate]

What do you mean dumping their shame? Like guilt-tripping the user? Interesting that you say this. Tell me more.

It's not really guilt-tripping. It's an urge to externalize feelings of shame, to believe that one feels bad 'because' of something/someone outside of him/herself- instead of just accepting that sometimes we are going to feel bad about ourselves because it's just a part of life. Narcissists (and/or people in the throes of some narcissistic mood swing) compulsively externalize feelings of shame because they can't handle internalizing even trace amounts of it- usually to the cost of other people, but they're so preoccupied with getting rid of the bad feelings that they can't see they're actually dumping those bad feelings on others (they can't empathize with how they are making others feel because they are preoccupied with avoiding bad feelings themselves).

I'm having trouble explaining this in my own words- but I'm certain there's a Brene Brown paragraph or two somewhere that could explain it perfectly. I'll try to find it. (And I'll 'mention' you or something if/when I come back to add it here.)

 

[Amargith]

^In other words: they blame everyone and everything else but themselves in order not to deal with the feeling of shame/blame

Ever seen a toddler kick a door after having his fingers squished by the door? Or throw his toys after having hurt himself? Usually it's also followed by a 'BAD DOOR!!!'


That's essentially it.

 

[Rambling]

56. But interestingly it was compiled of loads of 1s and then various 4s and 5s, so there are some idiosyncrasies which I clearly have in spades, and others which I just don't touch with a barge pole. I don't think it's a conclusive test, more a load of random insecurities, of which I happen to have some but not all. I'm unconvinced by it.

 

[outofplace]

My score is 76.

Unfortunately, NPD runs in my family. Thank God, my score is below 82.

 

[sorenx7]

55

But I somewhat doubt the accuracy of this test (as has already been noted.)

 

[Tellenbach]

51. Isn't narcissism a form of irrational thought - when one's perception of self is totally out of whack with reality? My judgement and perception of self, others, the situation, etc is mostly spot on since I have superior analytical and observational skills that aren't colored by emotional baggage.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Yet another narcissism type description, from The Communal Narcissist: Another Wolf Wearing a Sheep Outfit

In his book Rethinking Narcissism, Dr. Craig Malkin distinguishes between three types of narcissists—the extrovert, the introvert, and the communal.

The extrovert is the easy-to-spot kind whose grandiosity is presented in Technicolor, the preener and the manipulator we’re most familiar with. The introvert (also called the “covert” narcissist) is somewhat more confounding because he or she lacks outward braggadocio and may have a self-effacing or vulnerable manner which belies the way he or she feels superior to everyone. But the communal narcissist is entirely something else. I hadn’t heard of this category until I read Malkin’s descriptions, and perhaps you haven’t, either. This third type of narcissist is a relative newcomer to the party; the designation is only a bit over a decade old.

Surprisingly, while this narcissist shares characteristics with the other two—these are all people who continuously seek to validate their self-perceived grandiosity, esteem, entitlement, and power—this type focuses on promoting him or herself through commitment to others, communal goals, and the supposed ability to listen and connect. Yes, this is very counterintuitive (aren’t narcissists supposed to be out for themselves?), but a strong case has been made for these supposed do-gooder types. Here is how Malkin explains them in his book:

"[T]hey regard themselves as especially nurturing, understanding, and empathic. They proudly announce how much they give to charity or how little they spend on themselves. They trap you in a corner at a party and whisper excitedly about how thoughtful they’ve been to their grieving next-door neighbor. That’s me—I’m a born listener! They believe themselves better than the rest of humanity, but cherish their status as givers, not takers."​

(There's an inventory for this one too, at the page, to test oneself. Lol.)

While I think it's more productive to focus on the underlying similarity- that narcissists basically treat other people like extensions of their own reality, other people are little more than reflections of their own worth- I found this page interesting enough to get this book from the library today. (I'm hoping the book contains direction on how to not get triggered by it.)

I feel compelled to add that this reminds me of the following Mr. Show skit, The Five Voices. Because it makes fun of the whole 'armchair/self-help psychology' inclination to make somewhat superfluous categories.

 

[Coriolis]

This third type of narcissist is a relative newcomer to the party; the designation is only a bit over a decade old.

Surprisingly, while this narcissist shares characteristics with the other two—these are all people who continuously seek to validate their self-perceived grandiosity, esteem, entitlement, and power—this type focuses on promoting him or herself through commitment to others, communal goals, and the supposed ability to listen and connect. Yes, this is very counterintuitive (aren’t narcissists supposed to be out for themselves?), but a strong case has been made for these supposed do-gooder types. Here is how Malkin explains them in his book:

"[T]hey regard themselves as especially nurturing, understanding, and empathic. They proudly announce how much they give to charity or how little they spend on themselves. They trap you in a corner at a party and whisper excitedly about how thoughtful they’ve been to their grieving next-door neighbor. That’s me—I’m a born listener! They believe themselves better than the rest of humanity, but cherish their status as givers, not takers."​

[/INDENT]

Newcomer to the party? The name, perhaps. This description reminds me of the people described in the Bible (e.g. Matthew 6) who give and pray very publicly, to make sure everyone knows how pious and generous they are. These sorts have been around as long as humanity.

 

[/DG/]

Lord, this article with the shit "test" got bumped, eh? Well we're here again. May as well talk, eh?

It's interesting because in looking at a quick skim of Wikipedia's article of narcissism, it seems to indicate that narcissists believe they are better than others or more entitled to things than others at their core. This seems to be a bit contrary to what this article is indicating. Many in here seemed to have stated that narcissists have a fundamental issue with insecurities, but it is suggested that this is not true.

Additionally, there is no significant mention of covert narcissism within the article. There is a small aside, but it seems to contrast with the main idea presented in the rest of the Wikipedia article. Does anyone have more information on "covert narcissism" outside of blog posts and random articles?

Wikipedia contrasts narcissism with egocentrism. While the two both have self-centeredness in common, a narcissist "...[receives] gratification by one's own admiration."

So it indicates that self-admiration actually IS a core tenet of narcissism, contrary to what many in this thread are saying. They want admiration from others because they think they are great (except the one VERY small mention of the strange kind with low self esteem...which seems contradictory ["covert narcissism" in the article of the OP]).

Unfortunately, the article on egocentrism seems quite lacking compared to the one on narcissism. Also, it essentially states that egocentrism is "an inability to understand or assume any perspective other than their own." But...as established in this thread, I am an extremely self-centered person. But I have no issue in understanding different perspectives (this often leads to my huge leniency with a lot of people when others tend to dismiss another's actions as "wrong"). So egocentrism does not appear to be an exact synonym for self-centeredness and I don't know what is. I'm surprised there isn't an article on just plain old focus of the self. I dunno.

I am not educated in the matter, so someone can feel free to educate me on some of this stuff.

 

[uumlau]

Lord, this article with the shit "test" got bumped, eh? Well we're here again. May as well talk, eh?

It's interesting because in looking at a quick skim of Wikipedia's article of narcissism, it seems to indicate that narcissists believe they are better than others or more entitled to things than others at their core. This seems to be a bit contrary to what this article is indicating. Many in here seemed to have stated that narcissists have a fundamental issue with insecurities, but it is suggested that this is not true.

Additionally, there is no significant mention of covert narcissism within the article. There is a small aside, but it seems to contrast with the main idea presented in the rest of the Wikipedia article. Does anyone have more information on "covert narcissism" outside of blog posts and random articles?

Wikipedia contrasts narcissism with egocentrism. While the two both have self-centeredness in common, a narcissist "...[receives] gratification by one's own admiration."

So it indicates that self-admiration actually IS a core tenet of narcissism, contrary to what many in this thread are saying. They want admiration from others because they think they are great (except the one VERY small mention of the strange kind with low self esteem...which seems contradictory ["covert narcissism" in the article of the OP]).

Unfortunately, the article on egocentrism seems quite lacking compared to the one on narcissism. Also, it essentially states that egocentrism is "an inability to understand or assume any perspective other than their own." But...as established in this thread, I am an extremely self-centered person. But I have no issue in understanding different perspectives (this often leads to my huge leniency with a lot of people when others tend to dismiss another's actions as "wrong"). So egocentrism does not appear to be an exact synonym for self-centeredness and I don't know what is. I'm surprised there isn't an article on just plain old focus of the self. I dunno.

I am not educated in the matter, so someone can feel free to educate me on some of this stuff.

Well, it seems that I already replied to you in this thread once before, pretty much answering these questions.

Being self-centered plus having insecurities is all part of the same dynamic. If you read up on Enneagram, this same dynamic appears in all the types, even the not-especially-narcissistic ones. In general, for all types, people are really, really good at lying to themselves. The purpose of the lies is to suppress their insecurities. Narcissists lie to themselves about how special they are, to alleviate their insecurities about how insignificant they are. Those of us who don't have problems with narcissism have other insecurities that we confabulate lies to ourselves to suppress. This is just how humans work, as basic as the needs to eat and sleep and breathe. I cast no aspersions on anyone for their failures in this regard. We only differ in terms of the lies we tell ourselves.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

57

 

[/DG/]

Well, it seems that I already replied to you in this thread once before, pretty much answering these questions.

And it appears you have not read through my comment thoroughly.

I'm saying that these Wikipedia articles appear to contrast with what many are saying in here.

If you read up on Enneagram, this same dynamic appears in all the types, even the not-especially-narcissistic ones. In general, for all types, people are really, really good at lying to themselves. The purpose of the lies is to suppress their insecurities. Narcissists lie to themselves about how special they are, to alleviate their insecurities about how insignificant they are. Those of us who don't have problems with narcissism have other insecurities that we confabulate lies to ourselves to suppress. This is just how humans work, as basic as the needs to eat and sleep and breathe. I cast no aspersions on anyone for their failures in this regard. We only differ in terms of the lies we tell ourselves.

I'm sorry, we are discussing narcissism, not enneagram. I am not interested in enneagram explanations here, as it is not recognized by psychologists.

As far as the rest, do you have something I could read up on this? Again, it just does not appear to be indicated to be true for a majority of narcissism types from what I am reading. Some, yes. All, no.

 

[uumlau]

And it appears you have not read through my comment thoroughly.

I had reread the entire thread. You made the Wikipedia argument before and I answered it before.

I'm saying that these Wikipedia articles appear to contrast with what many are saying in here.

No, it really doesn't, and even you admit as much right here:

As far as the rest, do you have something I could read up on this? Again, it just does not appear to be indicated to be true for a majority of narcissism types from what I am reading. Some, yes. All, no.

No one is arguing that it is true for all types of narcissism, not even the main article quoted in the OP, therefore we would all appear to be in agreement.

If you are interested in what constitutes an official diagnosis of narcissism, that requires the DSM and a trained psychologist/psychiatrist:

Diagnostic Classification Diagnostic Criteria Sets

For each disorder included in DSM, a set of diagnostic criteria indicates symptoms that must be present (and for how long) as well as a list of other symptoms, disorders, and conditions that must first be ruled out to qualify for a particular diagnosis. While these criteria help increase diagnostic reliability (i.e., the likelihood that two doctors would come up with the same diagnosis when using DSM to assess a patient), it is important to remember that these criteria are meant to be used by trained professionals using clinical judgment; they are not meant to be used by the general public in a cookbook fashion.

(from this link: https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm )

So it isn't just a straightforward case of "this is real narcissism and that isn't", but rather an elaborate set of both positive criteria (things that must be present to be narcissism) and negative criteria (things that must NOT be present to be narcissism) that aren't simple enough to allow a layman to make a diagnosis.

So absent a professional psychologist, the best we can do is get a general idea about what comprises NPD. I found this site to have a particularly nuanced understanding and description of NPD: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) : How to Recognize a Narcissist The site describes itself as being intended for those who have had to deal with narcissists, and not as "ammunition" to accuse people of being narcissistic. It provides a sense of what NPD is like in very layman-friendly terms.

 

[prplchknz]

I might be but these days IDGAF, of course i don't constantly seek external validation but i can see how i could be. I'm probably not, but there is a possibility that i am. If I don't think i am but am willing to consider i am does that mean i'm not because it balances out?

obviously i do care a little

 

[prplchknz]

There's probably a few of these covert narcissists here on the forums.

without a doubt.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It's interesting because in looking at a quick skim of Wikipedia's article of narcissism, it seems to indicate that narcissists believe they are better than others or more entitled to things than others at their core. This seems to be a bit contrary to what this article is indicating. Many in here seemed to have stated that narcissists have a fundamental issue with insecurities, but it is suggested that this is not true.

Additionally, there is no significant mention of covert narcissism within the article. There is a small aside, but it seems to contrast with the main idea presented in the rest of the Wikipedia article. Does anyone have more information on "covert narcissism" outside of blog posts and random articles?

It does seem as though there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the specific meaning of the term "narcissism". And it also seems (to me) like this might be the reason for labeling certain 'types' of narcissism- because the "covert narcissist" isn't really narcissistic if one is using the term in its most colloquial sense, to describe a person overtly in love with their own image. It gets confusing because the definition of "narcissism" seems to vary a little bit according to context- philosophy, as a colloquial pejorative, and/or psychology. I think the wiki pages are a bit jumbled because they try to make sense of all three at the same time, and that's not going to happen.

The context in which I personally use the term "narcissism" (and, I think, the way the original article in the op intends) falls more in the armchair/self-help psychology parameters. My own understanding is informed by having read many armchair/self-help psychology books on the topic, on how to discern and get rid of this power imbalance in one's own life and relationships to others. Even within these specific parameters, there's a lot of disagreement over whether or not narcissists have self-esteem (some say the problem is that they lack self-esteem/are insecure, others say their self-esteem is fine and what they lack is compassion, and so on...).

I personally don't find these additional specific labels ('covert' or 'communal') helpful. I think it would be more productive to define "narcissism" in such a way that encompasses the problematic behavior they have in common instead of breaking it down into 'types'. (I posted this 'new type' more as an 'LOL' than something to take seriously- I'd hoped the thing under the spoiler at the end of the post would have made that clear.) As Coriolis mentioned, the behavior of this 'new' type has been around for a very long time.

The common denominator seems to be (as uumlau described) lying to oneself about how special we are as individuals. The phrase "false self" comes up *a lot* in these self-help books; narcissists have a 'false self' that- they believe- makes them special and entitles them, in some way, to special treatment- even if the special treatment is merely affirmation of their "especially nurturing, understanding, and empathic" identity/false self. For example: the difference between someone who IS especially nurturing, understanding and empathic and someone who merely has that identity/false self is that the former will be okay with other people not seeing this about them, they won't feel personally threatened by it and might even take the negative feedback as an opportunity to grow, whereas the latter- someone on the narcissistic end of the spectrum- needs the aggrandizement, needs other people to see this about them and for these qualities to be regularly externally affirmed, as publicly as possible.

Does that help at all?

eta: The way in which this common denominator might apply to the "covert narcissist" is that a person is so sensitive- (per article) "feelings of neglect or belittlement, hypersensitivity, anxiety, and delusions of persecution"- that they need their external environment to revolve around them more than they are able to give back in any relationship, and things feel 'balanced' when the give/take is leaning to their advantage, because they're 'special' enough to deserve it. Or something. I'm not quite 100% on the 'covert' thing.

more eta: It's worth pointing out here that merely having "feelings of neglect or belittlement, hypersensitivity, anxiety, and delusions of persecution" doesn't make a person narcissistic. It's when a person also lacks awareness of the toll the take on others- as uulmua describes in the next post, when there's no empathy.

 

[uumlau]

I personally don't find these additional specific labels ('covert' or 'communal') helpful. I think it would be more productive to define "narcissism" in such a way that encompasses the problematic behavior they have in common instead of breaking it down into 'types'. (I posted this 'new type' more as an 'LOL' than something to take seriously- I'd hoped the thing under the spoiler at the end of the post would have made that clear.) As Coriolis mentioned, the behavior of this 'new' type has been around for a very long time.

I think the distinction of types of narcissism helps to partially identify common traits, in the same way that people in the autism spectrum can have a lot of similar traits, but some are more visible than others in various cases.

The common denominator seems to be (as uumlau described) lying to oneself about how special we are as individuals. The phrase "false self" comes up *a lot* in these self-help books; narcissists have a 'false self' that- they believe- makes them special and entitles them, in some way, to special treatment- even if the special treatment is merely affirmation of their "especially nurturing, understanding, and empathic" identity/false self. For example: the difference between someone who IS especially nurturing, understanding and empathic and someone who merely has that identity/false self is that the former will be okay with other people not seeing this about them, they won't feel personally threatened by it, whereas the latter- someone on the narcissistic end of the spectrum- needs the aggrandizement, needs other people to see this about them and for these qualities to be regularly externally affirmed, as publicly as possible.

Yeah, "false self" isn't particularly helpful or descriptive, and the "lying to yourself" common denominator isn't helpful to someone who actually has the disorder, since they can't see their lies.

From my reading, the real common trait is a complete lack of empathy. Narcissists can emulate it well enough when they need something from you (it's just another psychological button to push), but they don't feel it, period. It's a lack of empathy to a degree that there might even be something physical to it, such as brain damage, a chemical imbalance, or perhaps severe emotional trauma. Essentially sociopathy, perhaps even to the extent of psychopathy. This kind of makes sense as a primary cause: in the absence of empathy, one is entirely unable to gain a sense of self-worth by connecting with other people in a meaningful way, but the need for meaning and self-worth doesn't just vanish, so it gets focused on oneself. In other words, the narcissist's focus on oneself doesn't seem to me to be causing a lack of empathy, but rather the reverse, that lack of empathy causes the focus on oneself. There might be something chicken-and-egg going on there, but given how most humans are wired, that seems the more likely direction of causality.

This should be distinguished, as /DG/ notes, from egocentrism and the normal human need to feel approval from others. You can still emotionally connect with an egocentric person, they're just more selfish. You can't emotionally connect with a narcissist, because the ability to connect just isn't there. They might be able to fool you or fake it if they're highly functioning, at least for a while, but sooner or later you figure out beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is nothing there to connect with.

So in this sense, that a narcissist is incapable of empathy or normal emotional connections, the the various "types" of narcissist would be the various different kinds of coping behaviors that arise from that one prime cause. In the case of this thread, the narcissist just happens to have a "special snowflake" idealized image of themselves that they admire, as opposed to a more obviously grandiose version of themselves. This would be distinguished from those who just want a lot of attention and enjoy drama, who are capable of emotionally connecting with others, but have other issues and unsatisfied needs.