2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Jaguar]

Warren-Sanders audio leaks: 'I think you called me a liar on national TV' - POLITICO

Meow.

 

[Bush]

CNN went after Bernie with such a vengeance you'd almost think he was Donald Trump. Clearly the elites put them on the same risky ground.

Yeah, that was pretty fun

Abby Phillip, CNN debate moderator, dismisses Bernie Sanders' denial in question - Washington Times

Sanders was pressed by CNN political correspondent Abby Phillip, one of the debate moderators, who asked him: “I want to be clear here. You’re saying that you never told Senator Warren that a woman could not win the election?”

“That is correct,” he replied.

She then turned to Warren and asked, “What did you think when Senator Sanders told you that a woman could not win an election?”

There was some laughter from the audience, and Sanders shook his head.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ninaturner/status/1217299524370206720

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Jag, it must suck to be in your shoes without a political home. You seem to be socially liberal but not really keen on the whole democratic tax and spend agenda either. Too bad there’s absolutely no party or candidates in this country running on a fiscally conservative, socially liberal platform. Yep, none to be found.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Like the media railroading Sanders is anything new. Anyone remember the 2016 debate with Hillary co-moderated by Telemundo? They were practically licking Hillary's twat, letting her go over her time limits, tossing her softballs. Sanders would start to speak and they'd cut him off briskly the second he went over the time limit. That one moderator didn't even hide the adoration for Hillary and contempt for Sanders in her voice when addressing them by name.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Jag, it must suck to be in your shoes without a political home. You seem to be socially liberal but not really keen on the whole democratic tax and spend agenda either. Too bad there’s absolutely no party or candidates in this country running on a fiscally conservative, socially liberal platform. Yep, none to be found.

That is why I prefer developed multiparty system. Where all the parties are basically like a keys on a piano. Now I want more welfare, now I want better laws and less welfare, now I want more environment friendly stuff, now I want more minority rights , now I want ... whatever. American main parties are just 2 too big conglomerates to truly represent the sophisticated 21th century environment.




To me temporal alliances between smaller blocks are more logical than two huge "frozen" blocks.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

That is why I prefer developed multiparty system. Where all the parties are basically like a keys on a piano. Now I want more welfare, now I want better laws and less welfare, now I want more environment friendly stuff, now I want more minority rights , now I want ... whatever. American main parties are just 2 too big conglomerates to truly represent the sophisticated 21th century environment.




To me temporal alliances between smaller blocks are more logical than two huge "frozen" blocks.

Yes, so if you prefer a Minor 7 chord, or a Diminished chord. As it stands, the two major parties are basically each the most generic three key major chords and offer little variation. Hell, I'd argue they might even be just the root and fifth notes. This makes for very limited compositions that tend to lack in dynamics or any sense of progression. Democrats are A Major. Republicans are, I dunno, E minor?

 

[Tigerlily]

I watched a good portion of the debate then turned it off. Childish behavior doesn’t belong in politics. “You said this, no you said it...” Ridiculous.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes, so if you prefer a Minor 7 chord, or a Diminished chord. As it stands, the two major parties are basically each the most generic three key major chords and offer little variation. Hell, I'd argue they might even be just the root and fifth notes. This makes for very limited compositions that tend to lack in dynamics or any sense of progression. Democrats are A Major. Republicans are, I dunno, E minor?

The thing is that with genuine multi party system you have a few benefits.


1. you don't have "us vs. them" narrative so much.
2. You have less status quo since some block can always jump in and change the ratios.
3. It is much harder to corrupt the whole political system and even if that happens there is the option of having new blocks.


But this isn't just EU thing all democracies are doing this.

Etc,

To be honest if I had to choose between this and introducing medicare for all I would actually go with this. Black and white thinking is almost certain death at this point. While the current American system is actually closer to China than to other democracies. I know this isn't nice to say but I think that the claim generally holds.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The thing is that with genuine multi party system you have a few benefits.


1. you don't have "us vs. them" narrative so much.
2. You have less status quo since some block can always jump in and change the ratios.
3. It is much harder to corrupt the whole political system and even if that happens there is the option of having new blocks.


But this isn't just EU thing all democracies are doing this.

Etc,

To be honest if I had to choose between this and introducing medicare for all I would actually go with this. Black and white thinking is almost certain death at this point. While the current American system is actually closer to China than to other democracies. I know this isn't nice to say but I think that the claim generally holds.

You're right though. Our democratic process is laughable. Because there's little democratic about it anymore. Duopoly. The media has a responsibility to report on major third parties. Several of those parties have offices and members nationwide, several of them make it to the ballots in nationwide elections, and to me, that is enough to merit media coverage. If the media spent as much time actually covering all viable parties and candidates as they spend obsessing over what Trump tweeted or what Bernie said to Warren, then people might be a little better informaed and realize there's other viable options. It's shameful how our MSM chooses to ignore them, and it's largely because of their selective coverage that third parties aren't viable options in the USA. The media even works closely with the republican in democratic parties in ensuring third parties are barred from debates or that debate rules will make it more difficult for lesser candidates to make it to debate stages.

Ideally, the Foxes and NBCs and CNNs would be saying "this party is also on the ballot in a majority of the 50 states. We have decided to add them to our coverage of the campaign and will attempt to give them adequate coverage so you the viewer is better informed when you head to the polls" Otherwise people know fuck-all about these candidates and automatically assume them to be longshots. It's sort of a vicious cycle too, the circular logic the media and people in general employ in dismissing third parties as unviable.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You're right though. Our democratic process is laughable. Because there's little democratic about it anymore. Duopoly. The media has a responsibility to report on major third parties. Several of those parties have offices and members nationwide, several of them make it to the ballots in nationwide elections, and to me, that is enough to merit media coverage. If the media spent as much time actually covering all viable parties and candidates as they spend obsessing over what Trump tweeted or what Bernie said to Warren, then people might be a little better informaed and realize there's other viable options. It's shameful how our MSM chooses to ignore them, and it's largely because of their selective coverage that third parties aren't viable options in the USA. The media even works closely with the republican in democratic parties in ensuring third parties are barred from debates or that debate rules will make it more difficult for lesser candidates to make it to debate stages.

Isn't this why the League of Women Voters no longer participates in debates? Something to do with the 2000 election.

The League of Women Voters is, incidentally, an excellent source for information on local elections, at least in Chicago.

Ideally, the Foxes and NBCs and CNNs would be saying "this party is also on the ballot in a majority of the 50 states. We have decided to add them to our coverage of the campaign and will attempt to give them adequate coverage so you the viewer is better informed when you head to the polls" Otherwise people know fuck-all about these candidates and automatically assume them to be longshots. It's sort of a vicious cycle too, the circular logic the media and people in general employ in dismissing third parties as unviable.

 

[ceecee]

Isn't this why the League of Women Voters no longer participates in debates? Something to do with the 2000 election.

The League of Women Voters is, incidentally, an excellent source for information on local elections, at least in Chicago.

Yeah I belong to the LWV and they haven't participated, I think, since about 1988, on the national level, due to all the bullshit. They replaced it with voter registration, outreach and the VOTE411 org for info. I agree, they are an excellent resource for election information.

Until the debates and everything about elections is out of the hands of the parties and back to non-partisan groups, it will be this way. But voters need to be vocal and militant af about it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yeah I belong to the LWV and they haven't participated, I think, since about 1988, on the national level, due to all the bullshit. They replaced it with voter registration, outreach and the VOTE411 org for info. I agree, they are an excellent resource for election information.

For some reason, I thought it had something to do with 2000, when Nader and Buchanan received a little attention.

 

[ceecee]

For some reason, I thought it had something to do with 2000, when Nader and Buchanan received a little attention.

League Refuses to "Help Perpetrate a Fraud" | League of Women Voters

"It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and honest answers to tough questions," Neuman said. "The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public."

How prognosticative.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

League Refuses to "Help Perpetrate a Fraud" | League of Women Voters



How prognosticative.

This is going on my Facebook wall.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

19 days until the fun really starts. I have some business to do in Iowa coming up, but it will likely be in a few months so I will miss the madness.

I really enjoyed the 2008 caucus (not in Iowa) I attended for Obama. The Hillary side was all white and mostly middle to upper class, while the Obama side was extremely diverse by every measurement (and much bigger).

Caucuses are more entertaining than primaries.

 

[Tellenbach]

So Bernie told everyone that he wanted Warren to run in 2016 but she chickened out. Could Warren have defeated Hillary? I think she could've, but we'll never know. I think her window closed in 2016.

I didn't watch the debate but I did hear clips of the responses. Klobuchar's answer about "getting together" with Iran so they'd give up their nuclear program was kinda stupid, but it's not important because everyone knows she isn't going to win. Kudos to Spartacus for not wasting our time anymore.

Bloomberg's too rich to even care about stupid debates; he's just going to outspend everyone 1000 to 1 in ads. His idea of campaigning is writing checks.

 

[Coriolis]

Isn't this why the League of Women Voters no longer participates in debates? Something to do with the 2000 election.

The League of Women Voters is, incidentally, an excellent source for information on local elections, at least in Chicago.

The League is indeed an excellent source of balanced, unbiased information about candidates and issues, including on the state and local levels. They never support any party or candidate, and take positions on issues only after careful study and deliberation. I have been a League member for years, in part to stay informed about local politics. The two main parties wrested control of debates away from the League in the late 80's. They invitied the League to participate in the 1988 debates, but placed too many conditions and the League declined. They still host debates or candidates nights at lower levels. See details here, in addition to the link [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] posted.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

If Elizabeth Warren said that I was calling her a liar, I'd say "That's right. You are one. It's been well documented. And you're also not a Native American."

 

[Nicodemus]

If Elizabeth Warren said that I was calling her a liar, I'd say "That's right. You are one. It's been well documented. And you're also not a Native American."

I really wish Warren had a better campaign manager. She could handily run over Sanders, but her own messaging instincts are bad, and her team appears unable to understand mass psychology beyond the scope of debates.

Warren and Buttigieg would be the best team to win the presidency. But by now I fear that Warren will fall to Sanders, Sanders will fall to Biden, and Buttigieg will not get a chance to wrest Biden voters away from the warm familiarity of the Obama years.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I really wish Warren had a better campaign manager. She could handily run over Sanders, but her own messaging instincts are bad, and her team appears unable to understand mass psychology beyond the scope of debates.

Warren and Buttigieg would be the best team to win the presidency. But by now I fear that Warren will fall to Sanders, Sanders will fall to Biden, and Buttigieg will not get a chance to wrest Biden voters away from the warm familiarity of the Obama years.

You quoted me twice in one day. Such a treat!

I'm amazed that Elizabeth Warren is doing as well as she is with some of the mistakes she's made. Her management team needs to do better. These sorts of blunders would be a problem in the general election.