2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Nicodemus]

I hope Biden will drop dead, Harris will self-destruct due to inauthenticity, and then Warren and Bernie make it, with Warren becoming president. If Bernie somehow screws up the general popularity he generated in 2016, I see a path for Buttigieg as well. At this point, though, I feel he is simply too unfamiliar to most people. I met a boy from Florida in London last month: He had never even heard of him. Granted, he also had no idea what "that big church" (Westminster Abbey) was, but in that he was probably representative of people his age. All he knew was that he would not vote for Trump.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I hope Biden will drop dead, Harris will self-destruct due to inauthenticity, and then Warren and Bernie make it, with Warren becoming president.

Why Warren ? (curious)

 

[Nicodemus]

Why Warren ? (curious)

Because she is well known, sincere, intelligent, serious about tackling corruption, ethically in the right place and, with good counseling, probably capable of walking through the mud storm that will be Trump's campaign relatively unstained. Though I believe she could easily beat any normal Republican candidate in a debate, Trump is measured in terms of spectacle instead of ability; so in the end, much will depend on circumstance.

However, the person I would most like to see become Trump's challenger is Buttigieg. Because I think Trump has absolutely no grasp of who this guy is, as a character, and would consequently struggle to smear him effectively.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Because she is well known, sincere, intelligent, serious about tackling corruption, ethically in the right place and, with good counseling, probably capable of walking through the mud storm that will be Trump's campaign relatively unstained. Though I believe she could easily beat any normal Republican candidate in a debate, Trump is measured in terms of spectacle instead of ability; so in the end, much will depend on circumstance.

However, the person I would most like to see become Trump's challanger is Buttigieg. Because I think Trump has absolutely no grasp of who this guy is, as a character, and would consequently struggle to smear him effectively.

Yeah, but don't forget that in the end this person will need to be the president and out of the two Warren sounds as much better option (in my book). However I should have been more exact, perhaps the question should have been: why Warren over Bernie ?

 

[Jaguar]

I hope Biden will drop dead, Harris will self-destruct due to inauthenticity, and then Warren and Bernie make it, with Warren becoming president. If Bernie somehow screws up the general popularity he generated in 2016, I see a path for Buttigieg as well. At this point, though, I feel he is simply too unfamiliar to most people. I met a boy from Florida in London last month: He had never even heard of him. Granted, he also had no idea what "that big church" (Westminster Abbey) was, but in that he was probably representative of people his age. All he knew was that he would not vote for Trump.

Infer what you will:

Surprising Results – Iowa State Fair Corn Kernel Poll (5:00pm Results)… | The Last Refuge

 

[Nicodemus]

Yeah, but don't forget that in the end this person will need to be the president and out of the two Warren sounds as much better option (in my book). However I should have been more exact, perhaps the question should have been: why Warren over Bernie ?

Because Bernie is a mere ideologue. He is popular for almost the same reasons Trump is, just with the opposite side of the good-evil spectrum.

I do not believe Buttigieg would be a bad president, actually. He has all the talents required, perhaps lacking a bit only in charisma.

Infer what you will:

Surprising Results – Iowa State Fair Corn Kernel Poll (5:00pm Results)… | The Last Refuge

Iowa is not the US.

But the longer he stays in the race, the better his chances (not only mathematically...). Where people get a chance to hear and meet him, he wins them over, because he has what most others (and especially Trump) can only fake: authenticity.

 

[Virtual ghost]

As my posts suggests I am generally for the progressive camp but I am having some doubts in which I have to admit that Warren is probably better choice.


1. Bernie is perhaps too much for US, even if for me he is just another center right wing politician.
2. Warren is more integrated into a party
3. She will pull many women out, especially against Trump
4. She seems quite precise and decently intelligent
5. Isn't ultra old

 

[Jaguar]

Iowa is not the US.

But the longer he stays in the race, the better his chances (not only mathematically...). Where people get a chance to hear and meet him, he wins them over, because he has what most others (and especially Trump) can only fake: authenticity.

Never said it was.

The point was Pete being known and has been since he ran for DNC chair. His main hurdle is unique, unfortunate, and woefully ironic. Proposition 8 in California revealed much about a particular demographic that could keep him from getting where he wants to go. “I was born black. I can't change that,” said Culver City resident Bilson Davis, 57, who voted for Proposition 8. “They weren’t born gay; they chose it."

I wasn't born black or gay but if I were born black, you wouldn't catch me judging a group of people who have been shit on for a long period of time when I came from one myself.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Because Bernie is a mere ideologue. He is popular for almost the same reasons Trump is, just with the opposite side of the good-evil spectrum.

I do not believe Buttigieg would be a bad president, actually. He has all the talents required, perhaps lacking a bit only in charisma.

Ok, but from what I saw he isn't too far from the duo you want out of race as quickly as possible. Healthcare as "business as usual" and most billionaires in money donations out of all candidates.
I just don't see what he really brings to the table against Trump, even if I am not some big hater of the guy.

 

[Nicodemus]

Never said it was.

The point was Pete being known and has been since he ran for DNC chair. His main hurdle is unique, unfortunate, and woefully ironic. Proposition 8 in California revealed much about a particular demographic that could keep him from getting where he wants to go. “I was born black. I can't change that,” said Culver City resident Bilson Davis, 57, who voted for Proposition 8. “They weren't born gay."

I wasn't born black or gay but if I were born black, you wouldn't catch me judging a group of people who have been shit on for a long period of time when I came from one myself.

I honestly think that his sexuality will not be much of hurdle. It all comes down to how you deal with it, and so far he has dealt with it splendidly, using it to stand out, but not to stand off, as it were. "Yes, I'm gay, but here is how I would like to tackle your problems..." seems a nice contrast to a man whose only motif is himself.

 

[Nicodemus]

Ok, but from what I saw he isn't too far from the duo you want out of race as quickly as possible. Healthcare as "business as usual" and most billionaires in money donations out of all candidates.
I just don't see what he really brings to the table against Trump, even if I am not some big hater of the guy.

I want Biden out of the race because he is feeble and inspires no hope for the future. I want Harris out because she clogs up the system without much chance, in my estimation, of actually winning the candidacy or the presidency.

To be sure, Buttigieg would not be a revolutionary, arriving more in the mold of Obama with high ideals and (mostly) modest goals, but political and cultural change on the grand scale is always gradual. What endears him to me is his evidently sincere ambition to make life better for regular people, and his 21-century approach to achieving it.

 

[Jaguar]

I honestly think that his sexuality will not be much of hurdle. It all comes down to how you deal with it, and so far he has dealt with it splendidly, using it to stand out, but not to stand off, as it were. "Yes, I'm gay, but here is how I would like to tackle your problems..." seems a nice contrast to a man whose only motif is himself.

He has been polling terribly with black voters, hence my comment. I'd like to see that change but Biden is way ahead with that demographic.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I honestly think that his sexuality will not be much of hurdle. It all comes down to how you deal with it, and so far he has dealt with it splendidly, using it to stand out, but not to stand off, as it were. "Yes, I'm gay, but here is how I would like to tackle your problems..." seems a nice contrast to a man whose only motif is himself.

Perhaps, but I can also see it in a way that it will brutally backfire (it is a gamble). Gay people will vote democrat anyway for the most part and his sexuality could turn up the Republican turn out by decent margin. I know that you are personally involved in this matter but his sexuality could be a glitch that the party doesn't need in the mix. After all the next POTUS must fix global and economic order ASAP, not do identity politics.

 

[Nicodemus]

He has been polling terribly with black voters, hence my comment. I'd like to see that change but Biden is way ahead with that demographic.

But in no small measure because they believe him to have a better chance of winning against Trump, which is a result of his familiarity among the general population. In other words, this is probably subject to change over the coming months.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

As my posts suggests I am generally for the progressive camp but I am having some doubts in which I have to admit that Warren is probably better choice.


1. Bernie is perhaps too much for US, even if for me he is just another center right wing politician.
2. Warren is more integrated into a party
3. She will pull many women out, especially against Trump
4. She seems quite precise and decently intelligent
5. Isn't ultra old

I’d prefer Warren, but I think that ship has sailed.

 

[Nicodemus]

Perhaps, but I can also see it in a way that it will brutally backfire (it is a gamble). Gay people will vote democrat anyway for the most part and his sexuality could turn up the Republican turn out by decent margin. I know that you are personally involved in this matter but his sexuality could be a glitch that the party doesn't need in the mix. After all the next POTUS must fix global and economic order ASAP, not do identity politics.

That is certainly a possibility. But the US did elect Obama twice while racism is and was obviously very much alive and kicking. If you think Buttigieg is interested in 'doing identity politics', I think you have not seen much of him yet.

For the record: The fact that I am gay does not mean I automatically favor the gay candidate...

 

[Virtual ghost]

I’d prefer Warren, but I think that ship has sailed.

Why ? (first votes are still fairly far)

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Another obstacle for Buttigieg will be convincing socially conservative black voters (not focusing on white conservatives since very few are likely to vote democratic in the first place) that a gay man from a largely white state is worth their support

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Why ? (first votes are still fairly far)

2 reasons:

She hasn’t proved she’s good at avoiding Trump’s and the Right’s baiting. She played right into their hands when she released her ancestry results and a corresponding PR video. She would have been better off ignoring the “pocohontas” taunts and memes. She didn’t need to convince any of her supporters or even most democrats, so ultimately the audience she was seeking to silence with that PR move just turned it back on her, and in the process she lost some credibility in the democratic camp and also got some criticism from certain Indian groups

Her critics have spent the last several years tearing her down and turning her into a punchline. It will be difficult for her to suddenly come back from this.

Don’t get me wrong, she’s one of my top 4, I’m just not convinced she can win.

 

[Nicodemus]

2 reasons:

She hasn’t proved she’s good at avoiding Trump’s and the Right’s baiting. She played right into their hands when she released her ancestry results and a corresponding PR video. She would have been better off ignoring the “pocohontas” taunts and memes. She didn’t need to convince any of her supporters or even most democrats, so ultimately the audience she was seeking to silence with that PR move just turned it back on her, and in the process she lost some credibility in the democratic camp and also got some criticism from certain Indian groups

I actually think and thought at the time it was a smart move to do this stunt then, because if she plays it well from now on, the issue can justifiably regarded, and always referred to, as settled. No reason to rebut any claims: That was already done long, long ago, when she was not even running for president.

On the other hand, I do hope she learned her lesson from the beer-drinking video.