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2017 Oscar Nomination Discussion

ChocolateMoose123

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I've seen all these performances for best actress except Portman.

Well, there you go, Emma.
Ruth gave her a cute return look. :)

okay, they just cut to News ABC 2 here same channel, and the two news anchors tried to describe what happened, and they sounded like complete asshats (white jock guy, black woman) -- he made fun of Warren Beatty like Trump mimicked the disabled reporter, then both of them were like, "I didn't even know Moonlight was in the running" and babbled on about it for a minute. Like, what?



I would have asked someone versus just announcing it, since that card made no sense. It's better than just guessing. Unless they were going to guess "Arrival."

Yeah. Technically, Faye was the one who announced La La Land. Oh the memes! Lol. Anyway, congrats to Moonlight!

I plan on seeing it as well as the other contenders.
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah. Technically, Faye was the one who announced La La Land.

It might have gone better if they had swapped roles.

Oh the memes! Lol. Anyway, congrats to Moonlight!

I plan on seeing it as well as the other contenders.

It was a decent year. Sometimes some of the movies selected actually kinda suck. But all the movies here I think were worth seeing.
 

Totenkindly

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I am not disappointed in this outcome. I think the Director and Cinematography Oscars were deserved for La La Land, but despite a decent ending, I felt like much of the middle of the film was wandering and kind of flat; and Moonlight was more consistent throughout.

EDIT: Hmm, looking back at my predictions, I think I was right on everything... and I had Best Picture as a tossup between La La Land and Moonlight, tho the buzz was predicting L3. So I got the false announcement award + predicted the other winner. Woot!
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I usually don't follow this because I haven't usually seen enough movies when they first come out. However, I am shocked that Rogue One didn't win for Visual Effects. I thought the CG Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher were very convincing. If I didn't know otherwise, I probably would have been fooled. Those talking animals in the Jungle Book (haven't seen it) better look like actual talking animals.
 

Totenkindly

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I should apologize about harshing on Beatty. It didn't help he looked confused much of the time he was on stage, but it was very clearly an envelope snafu, not him or Dunaway making up a name wholesale. They should have some procedure in place to handle this kind of thing when the card makes no sense; they should also be confirming the outside of the envelope before it is handed out (and it clearly was the best actress envelope, when you zoom on it). So it is mainly a failure of process, to have the proper checks and balances in place.

As always, the Twitter storm following does not fail to amuse. "Suicide Squad - True Winner!" "And the winner of the election is actually HRC!" Shyamalan claims he wrote the "surprise" ending. Matt Damon sabotages Jimmy Kimmel's Oscars. And so forth.

edit:
CSI Oscars: Decoding What Happened During the Great Best Picture Gaffe of 2017

I guess the question is where and when envelopes get handed off and by who.

Also, the Academy Twitter account actually posted the wrong winner first too? So they are keying off the ceremony, versus off the actual winner list? Wow.

I usually don't follow this because I haven't usually seen enough movies when they first come out. However, I am shocked that Rogue One didn't win for Visual Effects. I thought the CG Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher were very convincing. If I didn't know otherwise, I probably would have been fooled. Those talking animals in the Jungle Book (haven't seen it) better look like actual talking animals.

They look real (enough that you want to look at the credits and see if they used real animals), and even the backgrounds were bluescreen and looked very real.

Cushing was an impressive achievement but only for a small part of the movie. The rest of the effects were good but only on a professional level and not like Jungle Book. Kubo had better overall effects than RO (considering they used tangible figures and props for much of their work, and had to invent consistent ways to generate real-life phenomena like water movement, etc).
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Yeah. Technically, Faye was the one who announced La La Land. Oh the memes! Lol. Anyway, congrats to Moonlight!

I plan on seeing it as well as the other contenders.
I have a hard time believing that with all the control, planning, money, high-stakes, that they could make a genuine mistake like this. It feels like funny business, but I don't have an idea about the purpose of the funny business. "La La Land" was both a celebration and at times an implicit criticism of Hollywood, so I wondered if it was some funny political thing to insult that team? I'm not sure, but it did seem really bizarre.
 

Totenkindly

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I have a hard time believing that with all the control, planning, money, high-stakes, that they could make a genuine mistake like this. It feels like funny business, but I don't have an idea about the purpose of the funny business. "La La Land" was both a celebration and at times an implicit criticism of Hollywood, so I wondered if it was some funny political thing to insult that team? I'm not sure, but it did seem really bizarre.

Well, if someone on PriceWaterhouse Cooper screwed up, they're out of a job probably. High-risk stakes just to make a funny statement.

Meet the two PwC partners who handed out the Oscar envelopes - MarketWatch
Martha Ruiz and Brian Cullinan: How we fxcked up the Oscars - Scallywag and Vagabond

It sounds like whichever one DIDN'T hand off the card for Emma Stone's announcement for the previous award would have been the one who handed out the erroneous second envelope.


EDIT:
Cullinan looks suspiciously like Matt Damon. Dammit, Damon -- is this you trying to one up Jimmy Kimmel???? I told you to just Jason Bourne him.

Martha-Ruiz-and-Brian-Cullinan5.jpg
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Did I miss anything by not seeing Lion? That baby is very cute. I'm gonna see Hacksaw Ridge, but I think it's going to make me cry ugly "I love 'murrica so much" tears. Where is [MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION]??
Didn't see any of the contestants. I am interested In Scorsese's Film silence tho.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I have a hard time believing that with all the control, planning, money, high-stakes, that they could make a genuine mistake like this. It feels like funny business, but I don't have an idea about the purpose of the funny business. "La La Land" was both a celebration and at times an implicit criticism of Hollywood, so I wondered if it was some funny political thing to insult that team? I'm not sure, but it did seem really bizarre.

I think in this case, a cigar is just a cigar but I do think someone's head will roll.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I think in this case, a cigar is just a cigar but I do think someone's head will roll.
Perhaps. It's just seems like it would take a lot for such a mistake to happen. Didn't there have to be an extra card printed up? Or was one accidentally reused? I'm sure those are kept guarded throughout the process of printing and storing, and then distributing. That system must be very well planned and developed. I don't think it's like the copyshop kid accidentally running 10 extra copies. I think the process is highly controlled, so that such a big mistake can't happen. Who knows, maybe they fly by the seat of their pants?

Edit: aren't they each in sealed envelopes so that there had to be an extra card printed up?

If it was planned, then the mastermind of it would absolutely never get caught.
 

Totenkindly

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Perhaps. It's just seems like it would take a lot for such a mistake to happen. Didn't there have to be an extra card printed up? Or was one accidentally reused? I'm sure those are kept guarded throughout the process of printing and storing, and then distributing. That system must be very well planned and developed. I don't think it's like the copyshop kid accidentally running 10 extra copies. I think the process is highly controlled, so that such a big mistake can't happen. Who knows, maybe they fly by the seat of their pants?

Edit: aren't they each in sealed envelopes so that there had to be an extra card printed up?

If it was planned, then the mastermind of it would absolutely never get caught.

There are two cards printed.
One goes in each briefcase.
The briefcases are locked and each one held by one of the reps at all times.
One is positioned on each side of the stage, depending on which side the announcer goes up.
The only two people that know the winners (which they memorize, as once the envelopes are sealed there is no other record) are these two people.

The very first thing I would check is which side the prior announcer went up (to get a card) and then see if the current announcer went up the other side.

It seems all very elementary:
- If there are only two cards, and they have two cards, then track which card came from which person. One of those people should have had a Best Actress card left in their briefcase. If they do not, then one of them handed their card (the remaining card) at the wrong time.
- If there was somehow another card printed up (which doesn't seem to be very likely), then there should be THREE cards floating around (one with Emma Stone, one still sitting in a briefcase, and the one that was read by the announcers), and something is SERIOUSLY wrong.

Pretty much the two reps are hosed regardless. Either they printed up an extra Emma Stone card with intent to defraud/embarrass (but why?) , or they did not properly safeguard the cards AND/OR the poll results at some step in the process.

The fact the errant card was not a printed-up "La La Land" winner card but actually an Emma Stone card that was misread as a "La La Land" card suggests it was just a card mixup. Again, I'd check who came up which side of the stage for the last two winners and see if it explains what happened.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION]
Yeah, that is helpful to understand. I probably should ask first, exactly what the process is to see if there is the possibility of snafu.

It does charm me when clear rational types find certain socially dominant and odd behaviors inconceivable. You could also ask why Justin Timberlake was making weird faces behind Emma Stone when she was being interviewed. Arrogant people are kinda insane. I actually know a lot of people who do things to make others feel thrown off and embarrassed and it gives them a sense of dominance to instill a negative and confusing feelings in others. The types of people at those award shows feel really similar to the types of people who do that to people.

Even my boyfriend's father responded to me thanking them for dinner by point at me and saying, "now get down on your knees and say it". Why would he say that? It isn't funny. It didn't fit the situation. It did make me feel a little confused and embarrassed and like he gained some sort of social dominance. My sister's MIL is like that all the time as well. You can never tell for sure if it was intentional or something that just happened, but the odd thing is that stuff happens where you have to constantly ask that question. A small example I mostly decided to dismiss is when she offered me a fig, and when I chose one, she grabbed it out of my hand and said, "here, eat this one", which was all brown and squished. Did she really think it was the superior fig and she was helping me, or did she just want to dominate me by making me eat a rotten fig. Her son had talked about getting a saxophone to start playing again, and when it was his birthday she sent him an old, bent up rusted saxophone, even though she had plenty of money. Did she think it was a genuinely good gift or did she want to make him feel confused and badly for almost getting a thoughtful present, but one that also felt like an insult. Irrational and arrogant image-focused people do those sorts of odd demeaning behaviors to others all the time. It's because it gives them a feeling of control and dominance to impose a vulnerable feeling on other human beings.
 

Totenkindly

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[MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION]
Yeah, that is helpful to understand. I probably should ask first, exactly what the process is to see if there is the possibility of snafu.

Yeah, if the process is as I saw when I read about it, then that is how I proceed. (I do process and tech troubleshooting for a living, and you need to quickly get a sense of where the weak elements of a process are in order to quickly pinpoint a problem.)

A big issue in assuming that malfeasance was done is simply, well, motive. Opportunity is another. If there was no opportunity, then motive doesn't matter. I'm sure there are folks out there who hated La La Land, but when a process breaks down, my first assumption is to look at the stuff that is easy to examine: The system and the opportunity. In the investigation, then maybe motive would become a factor. But I see stuff break daily and it's usually just human beings who screw something up.

Even here in a case where someone maybe had the extra card out, and another person took it and offered it purposefully to the announcers to confuse them - well, it's clearly obvious who took the card and who did what with it. They are nailed immediately. And if they manage to sneak the card away or swap them somehow without folks knowing, then it was the person who was in charge of the cards who is left holding the bag because they weren't protecting the cards.

It does charm me when clear rational types find certain socially dominant and odd behaviors inconceivable. You could also ask why Justin Timberlake was making weird faces behind Emma Stone when she was being interviewed. Arrogant people are kinda insane. I actually know a lot of people who do things to make others feel thrown off and embarrassed and it gives them a sense of dominance to instill a negative and confusing feelings in others. The types of people at those award shows feel really similar to the types of people who do that to people.

I don't have any qualms or misgivings about the darkness that can lurk within the human heart, but in my experience usually as I've said when there is an issue, it's usually because someone did something dumb or a process was poorly designed. It's typically the best thing to examine first, rather than assuming the captain of the Titanic pushed the ship in order to make the engines blow up and aimed the ship straight at an iceberg to murder the entire crew and passenger list + embarrass the ocean liner company.

Also, there is a reward/punishment payoff. Anyone in the entertainment industry who did this and got caught are basically ruining their career and will never work again in the field, so that is a huge deterrent to folks who are in that boat especially if their ego is that large.

Even my boyfriend's father responded to me thanking them for dinner by point at me and saying, "now get down on your knees and say it". Why would he say that? It isn't funny. It didn't fit the situation. It did make me feel a little confused and embarrassed and like he gained some sort of social dominance. My sister's MIL is like that all the time as well. You can never tell for sure if it was intentional or something that just happened, but the odd thing is that stuff happens where you have to constantly ask that question.

I guess someone could make a joke like that, but it seems highly inappropriate especially for someone in authority to say. (A parent of a SO isn't really an authority in reality but socially dominant and then if you are in their house.) Especially when it comes to a man saying it to a woman, because there are many horrible connotations to that. IOW, who the heck are these people?

A small example I mostly decided to dismiss is when she offered me a fig, and when I chose one, she grabbed it out of my hand and said, "here, eat this one", which was all brown and squished. Did she really think it was the superior fig and she was helping me, or did she just want to dominate me by making me eat a rotten fig. Her son had talked about getting a saxophone to start playing again, and when it was his birthday she sent him an old, bent up rusted saxophone, even though she had plenty of money. Did she think it was a genuinely good gift or did she want to make him feel confused and badly for almost getting a thoughtful present, but one that also felt like an insult. Irrational and arrogant image-focused people do those sorts of odd demeaning behaviors to others all the time. It's because it gives them a feeling of control and dominance to impose a vulnerable feeling on other human beings.

I think in those cases you have pinpointed people who seriously seem to have some issue, and their nasty behavior is tangible and observable, and you can cross-check your understanding of their motives, so it makes sense to wonder what in the world is wrong with them and what they are up to.
 
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