Eilonwy
Vulnerability
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2009
- Messages
- 7,051
- MBTI Type
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 4
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/so
I don't think this is the right way to look at it. As much as it might not seem l like it, of all people, us Ni-doms realize just how much we don't know. We seek depth of understanding and insight however. It's just how we're built. Yes, we have a great deal of confidence in our perceptions, but they are just that - perceptions. Those perceptions can be changed with new evidence. Can you imagine living life like this - to have this constant quest for evolving your insights about things and realize that there is no possible way you can ever come close to knowing enough? That's what it is like.
Here's my rambling explanation of how sometimes those perceptions, in an INFJ, might not be changed with new evidence:
Ni--how I perceive the world, is very subjective and detached from reality. So how do I get accurate, reality-based perceptions? Through Se, my inferior. And by nature, the extroverted functions are in the moment--reality as it is in that moment--fleeting--constantly having to be rechecked--mentally exhausting for me. So, I rely on Ni. But if my internal, collected perceptions aren't accurate, and I'm not checking Se to confirm because it's mentally taxing, and I think I know everything I need to know anyway, then I'm screwed. All I have to base my decisions/judgements on boils down to imaginary, subjective data.

On another track: Ni-Fe probably makes its decisions using the more primitive limbic system (gut-feelings, abstract decision making). Extraverted functions are more immediate. The urge to make an immediate, forceful, gut decision via Fe is strong. It can be worked around by engaging Ti, but Ti isn't so reality-based--even though it's more rational than Fe, it's also more subjective, so it's imaginary in some ways. And so one can end up with the possibility of an Ni-Ti loop, which feels like it's rational, but it might not be. It can be difficult to bypass a limbic system judgment when it's wanting to be immediate/extraverted.

So, it may not be easy to have new evidence accepted by Ni because:
1) Ni perception takes a long time to build. Lots of mental energy. Efficiency becomes a priority. Rebuilding is not efficient. Accepting new evidence necessitates rebuilding.

2) All reality-based new data has to come in through the inferior, weak, extraverted perceiving function--Se. Again, lots of mental energy required.

3) Ti workarounds might seem rational, but since Ti is an introverted function--subjective and in the tertiary position--it's less reality-based and can easily find "reasons" to deflect and dismiss new evidence as not being "true". It's subjectively judging subjective accumulated data, not allowing new evidence to be considered.
I disagree with the bolded being the norm, especially when it comes to F-types, and most especially when it comes down to INFP and INFJ issues. F-types seem to take arguments more personally, and the miscommunication that happens between INFPs and INFJs adds to that.Sometimes, I think this forum is like a laboratory. People get upset about things and then actually talk about why they are upset because of the type of forum it is. We know what type they are so we get a chance to see how the interaction works. It's unfortunate that some INFJs feel driven away by certain types of interaction. I also feel badly that you seem upset.
It is a positive thing, overall.One thing about our forum that is fundamentally different than other forums is that it is centered on interaction across types. The other forums focus more heavily on facilitating interaction within types. So, INFJs interact with INFJs. INTJs interact with INTJs. That's the culture they foster, even if the forum has all different kinds of types. We're different. I see this as a positive thing. We get to see how these inter-type conflicts play out.
I know some people don't really like conflict but we can learn from it. It's useful at times. It can be a good thing.
The question then is - how is this gap bridged with an INFJ? People can be very inconsistent, and this seems less tolerated when external with an INFJ, and less tolerated with an FP when internal. How much internal consistency will convince an INFJ that a person is, well, trustworthy? The lack of predictability in FPs seems to leave them uneasy. As an INFP, it leaves me uneasy to be boxed it so quickly so I can be summed up easily.
Taking it a bit broader - question to the INFJs - what is it exactly that results in the INFJ extending that trust and opening up? I don't know that it has anything to do with internal consistency but it seems like it is certainly something. Time? Behaviors over time? Is there some kind of inflection point that occurs? What builds up that trust over time and what tears it down?
I hear a different question from OrangeAppled than I hear from highlander. I hear her asking what one has to do in order to get an INFJ to trust them? What criteria need to be met?
What I hear highlander asking is similar--what criteria need to be met, but not only in order to get the INFJ to trust you, but to get the INFJ to be vulnerable and open up to being trusting.
My answer to OrangeAppled's question is that I think the criteria the INFJ needs met in order to trust are pretty much the same criteria that anyone would want met. Honest, genuine communication, some sort of consistency, shared values, etc.
My answer to highlander's question is that I think the degree to which I'm open to being trusting is determined by how how confident and competent I feel about my own abilities to handle whatever people might throw at me. The more competent I feel, the more open and vulnerable I'm willing to be whether I trust the other person or not.
And I think this all ties back in to my weak Se. Weak Se is why I feel the need to plan ahead of time, because I'm not good at perceiving concrete real world data on the fly. I don't naturally feel competent to handle that sort of data on the fly. I have to work at it.
So, my overall answer to how do you get an INFJ to trust you is that it will all depend on the INFJ. For the most part, it will probably be a difficult endeavor.