A
Anew Leaf
Guest
My emotions are the only thing I trust without question. This actually reminds me of a joke I used to say at a place I worked at years ago, "don't bring logic into this, it will only screw things up!" (and that was before I knew anything about typology). I hope you don't ever change(I absolutely adore your spirit!) or doubt yourself. I offer you a quote that was given to me many years ago when I too was questioning things..."There is nothing wrong with you, its everybody else that has it wrong!"
I used to just blindly and blithely trust my emotions no matter what. Now I am taking stock of where some of these choices have lead me and I am displeased at the end result... primarily because I didn't really think of an end result.
I think its important to be able to consciously judge when to listen you F response and how much to give it weight in the given situation(applies to all types). Naturally there are some instances where its obvious that F response matters more than T and others where its the other way around, but at times there are situations where you cant just intuitively know that, and need to stop to compare what T says and what F says and judge between them. Personally(might not work for you since im TiFe) i tend to compile two different big pictures, one from the point of view of T and one from F. Basically when compiling the big picture, im trying to look every individual aspect in it separately and sort of give it % of yes or no(or i dont really use the %, but its the closest thing it can be translated to and its actually more like 100% = 2x 85% type of thing than actual percentages(and sometimes it might be 80% = 2x 20%, it kinda varies on situations), complicated to explain, but i can do that instantly), which push the big picture more towards yes or no based on its %. and after forming this big picture, i try to see it the result i got for the T big picture seems about right, sort of double check it. Then i do the same thing with F and compare the F %yes and no to T% yes and no, then if its not obvious answer, i tend to compare the two using T.
This process might last anywhere from 10 seconds to 20 mins depending on the issue at hand and all its complications. But i dont have to think like that too often, often its just "would be nice to do X, but on the other hand Y, so i rather do Z". Its basically the more important the issue is, more precisely i evaluate every single aspect of it and i dont need to think about %'s as numbers, but its more like some sort of marker that i dont need to give conscious/concrete value to, but it keeps its value in comparison to other things nevertheless, kinda hard to explain .
Maybe it might work with FiTe too, since ur using NeSi, since after all T and F are still T and F regardless of whether they are E or I.
Lol, I get the gist of it, thanks.
There's a system called Human Design that you might be interested in. If you are what's called an Emotionally Defined being, then your slogan is "There is no truth in the now," and to know whether or not your emotions should be acted upon, you should wait a certain period of time before you act on them. It might be worth investigating. It has helped me a good bit to understand that I'm NOT emotionally defined, and my cues to act should come from elsewhere. My emotions are transient and not cues for me to act upon.
I may have found it online. Is this what you are refering to?
I have a problem with giving into moods. These don't influence my judgements about what is important or what is right, but they can influence my actions, even as I know they are not beneficial to me in the long run.
I actually had a hard time giving weight to my emotions in decision-making though. I experience Feeling as rational, and the separation of the two was clear to me. Unlike Thinking, there is a greater need for Feeling & emotions to be in harmony, IMO. The inner turmoil caused by a disharmony is always present with a Fi-dom. Reconciling the two is something we may take a lot of time and energy to do. When they are out of sync, a great Bad Mood descends...
For me, these three are NOT the same:
Feeling - I experience this as rational, as it's a form of thinking (8 forms of it ). Before I learned MBTI/Jungian terminology, I would have called this thinking, forming lines of reasoning, rational analysis, and perhaps even a form of logic. I distinguish it as Feeling now because I see my core premise is always an unconditional human value; what is this worth, what does it mean - in relation to being a person? Nearly everything is personal then, not in an emotional way, but in a way that acknowledges the impact things have on people. And when something is not personal, then it, frankly, doesn't interest me much. This is how I know I am a Fi-dom.
Moods - These are very much the transient states mentioned in the OP. It's hard for me not to live in them. They affect my demeanor more than anything. They are often at odds with my feeling. They even get in the way of my clarifying my own emotions to myself, and finding something useful in my emotions; I have to work hard to distinguish them from my real emotion. These have become the enemy for me, and for years they tried to fool me into thinking my Feeling and real emotions were not to be trusted, that they were far too idealistic. I used to deal with them by isolating myself a lot, so as not to inflict myself on others when moody. I think that was a mistake; I allowed them to control me. Now I just kind of try to push through it, so that I can get to the bottom of things & find my real emotion.
Emotions - For me, these signify value, absence of it, violation of it, etc. This is my brain's way of saying - "pay attention to this area" or of supporting a valuation. I certainly consider emotions when making decisions, but they are not all I consider. Understanding WHY I have a certain emotion is the hardest part. Once I am able to dissect it thoroughly, then rarely do I find an emotion is useless. I used to not listen to my emotions much at all, feeling that when they were at odds with my Feeling that I simply was not disciplined enough. I confused my moods with emotions & emotions with moods. I felt all the restrictions of being a Feeling type, but none of the benefits; I was GOOD, but not happy or warm. I made responsible choices, but I didn't fill my needs or anyone else's. I didn't wrong people, but I couldn't connect with them. I refined my Feeling judgements by allowing my emotions some validity. I took them into account, as significant data. It helped me to better see what I need, and in turn, what people in general need, and that there's no shame in NEED.
This is really wonderful, thank you... I identify so much with it all. I like the differentiating of moods - feelings - emotions. Perhaps my issue is one of acting on moods rather than well thought out rationalizations that are based in a calm decision. My moods have been my enemy for my entire life as well, and I have done the isolation thing for long periods of time. I did a 6 month isolation this past year that I am currently trying to struggle out of.
I need to think more on this, but your post was brilliant and insightful to what I was really trying to get at in my OP.
In considering your comments, I realize I don't think of options in terms of thinking or feeling, just sound/unsound, effective/ineffective, or even feasible/unfeasible. Of course, having strong Te-aux, that is my primary yardstick in making these assessments. I actually make very few decisions using a process driven primarily by Te, though.
My decisions are usually Ni-based, in that after absorbing a certain amount of information about the situation (often less than I should), I simply "see" what appears to be the best option. It is at this point that I engage Te to analyze this perception. A large part of this analysis is considering pros and cons, costs and benefits of the indicated option. This is where Fi comes in, since in determining whether a possible benefit is worth the cost, I must engage my values - what is important to me, and what lines I will not cross in order to get something. Sometimes I realize I have conflicting values or priorities, at which point I engage Te again to determine the root of the inconsistency, then revisit the analysis.
This is a great breakdown of your process, thank you. I can see it very clearly.
I don't experience much feels right - is right conflict, but I have only recently been learning to differentiate my moods from my feelings, as OA has also described. For a very long time I let my moods overwhelmingly dictate my behavior, and it's particularly in the context of my relationship (sorry guys I really am sx to the max) that I have been forced to mentally split between "I am angry at you now" and "I want us to be together in the long term". I feel like I have to fight back the dragon inside myself to make a better decision, like trying to speak calmly and give the benefit of the doubt instead of yelling. It's a learning process, that's for sure.
I actually wonder if there's not some kind of FP correlate to this, in that Fi and Ti are more "timeless" in nature than Fe and Te, and therefore subjective validation and aiming for what "should" be is more important than objective influence and immediate delivery of results. Combine that with the exploratory, holistic nature of Se and Ne, and you wind up with Ps being much more likely to behave spontaneously and to feel more comfortable with less consistent behavior.
I like a lot of what you say here. I am forever reaching for the idealistic should be of who I am or what I should have/do in my life. And I am hyperaware of the disconnect between what I am reaching for and what is actually reached.
If you're a feeler and chose the 'feeler way', but still it turned out you were 'wrong' or think you could have had better results if you approached differently. At least you have been true to yourself and were able to learn from it. For a feeler it would still be much better than trying to ignore those feelings and attempt to go with a 'rational' approach, which is likely to cause a much bigger fallout.
This is another good point. I remember when I was going to have to put my pet bunny down and I didn't want to at all... but I felt like I needed to "T" up and consider the pros and cons and act rationally. Instead all it did was make me absolutely paralyzed in making a final decision. Finally I decided to approach it from the emotional standpoint and it was so simple: my pet is old and her quality of life isn't great therefore it is a kindness for me to put her down.
First, yes, it is a topic, and a good one at that.
Similarly, I have encountered the situation when I have correctly perceived a situation, but jumped to the wrong conclusion. For example, let's say I notice someone is acting in a peculiar manner, and I pick up they are distressed. Indeed, they will be, but sometimes I will figure out the wrong reason due to a lack of information. And if I do not discuss the matter, I might react in a way inappropriate to the actual problem.
Making decisions can be an issue as well. Acting on feelings is not necessarily a problem, whereas acting on *impulse* has nearly always proven detrimental. My coping mechanism: sleep on it. Usually my first impression is not accurate, and upon more pondering and mulling in my mind (not always conscious, can also be while sleeping) I come to a more accurate result.Of course, the problem is getting myself to take that time out. Feelings + thought + action. But sometimes you just want to dooooo something.
I can identify a ton with everything you say here too. Especially on the first bold. That is a big part of my problem. I "see" something and then it's not true and I'm like, how the heck did this happen!? I thought I was being careful! I think part of this is that I am very very good with body language and vocal intonations in others and so very often I am picking up on things that people themselves aren't aware of... and this gives me the impression that I am always right or that I can read minds or something. (Sadly, I cannot.)
there's a little baby ISTJ nodding it's head from the reverse order of every ENFP. wake her up.
If it's Patches, then I am ok with that. Otherwise... PASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.