Do you feel like your own sense of God aligns almost perfectly with that of your faith community?
Well to the extent that I affirm most of the same creeds and confessions that my church affirms, yes. I sought out my church in part because it did affirm the same view of God as I did.
Another question (for religious people): how is organized religion related to holiness, in your experience?
I think the topic of holiness is an extremely complicated one. From my reading of the Bible I'm led to believe that their are sort of concentric circles of meaning of the term holiness, because it is used in different ways throughout the Bible.
At the center of the Circle I think holiness is an adjective for God. God is Holy means God is God. In this sense holiness is not an attribute of God that is given to humans. But, God has developed ways for humans to reflect this attribute even if they don't have it in the same sense that God does.
As IZ mentioned holiness can be related to cleanliness. In this sense it is a moral and behavioral standard. And so we can reflect the moral perfection of God by our behavior.
But, as IZ mentioned objects can be holy too. But, objects cannot conform to a moral standard.
That points to a second circle of meaning of holiness: a peculiar possession of God. Merely by belonging to God something can be holy.
Which raises my objection to IZ's contention:
But in order for any of these to be holy, a level of cleanness has to be maintained.
I believe the people of God are always holy because they belong to God and possess the righteousness of Christ. They reflect his holiness. To the extent that God's people behave immorally they betray what they are, but this does not change who they are at their core.
Also, mixed in with these other definitions of holiness is the idea that to be holy means to be set apart.
[Most of my thoughts on Holiness are cherry picked from those of DA Carson, an evangelical theologian and contributor to the ESV translation of the Bible]
So to get back to
Gromit's original question...
Without organized religion I probably wouldn't even know what holiness is. The Israelites were an organized religion... and more. The early church was an organized religion with leaders and meetings. I wouldn't have the Bible without organized religion. And without the organized church in its different manifestations over the last 2000 years I wouldn't have my current view of the Bible.
Being part of a church sets me apart in this world as a person that belongs to God. Being part of a church informs me of how to be holy in this present world. Being part of a church surrounds me with people who will encourage me to be holy in the moral sense and remind me of the good news that I already possess holiness through the work of Christ.
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Banana, Can you please define your view of altruism, just so we're clear on things.
Also let me state that my position is not a strange one at all. for several hundred years protestants have believed, as attested to in the
Westminster shorter catechism, that the chief end of man is to glorify God
and enjoy him forever.
If you do something for selfish reasons (such as reward in the afterlife) then you are not being altruistic. But distinguishing a good deed done freely and one done selfishly would be difficult to discern - a job for your god, perhaps? That He may be familiar with Corinthians is a gauntlet you may have to run.
Thankfully I'm not judged by my deeds. Because of the insidiousness of sin I think very few of my deeds are done without some sinful motivation. But, Christ's righteousness is mine and I will be judged by the works of Christ not my own.
I'm trying to draw a distinction between just any selfish purpose and seeking joy in part because it brings me pleasure in God.
Take into consideration the familiar parable of the prodigal son and the older son's dismay.
Luke 16 (ESV) said:
29 but he answered his father, ‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might ecelebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came, fwho has devoured gyour property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours.
The older son did not recognize that the Father himself
was the treasure and reward. I want to spend eternity in the new heaven and new earth so that I can experience perfect unification with God and enjoy him.
I obey God for many reasons, but first and foremost I do it... or I
should do it because it brings me closer to the father in whom I can find joy... and who finds joy in me (Zephaniah 3:17).
I can except you believe this but fail to understand why.
Because, I don't read that passage or any other outside of consideration of the the entire counsel of God's word.
Ah, an Old Testament man. Good. Please do bear in mind that this is your Bible, not mine. For your god is a socialist god, who cancels debts every 7 years and requires you to spread your wealth.
I fail to see why this makes me an "OT Man." But, no I'm not ashamed of the OT at all.
It's a bit anachronistic to say my God is a socialist. My God is a holy God who put in place a set of Laws for his people, the israelites, that were in their best interest at that time in that place. While I do tinker with theonomy (the belief that the OT laws apply today unless they were abolished by the NT) I'm still of the belief that most of the OT law was abolished by the coming of Christ... though much can be learned from it.
Could you explain, other than "mysterious ways" how randomness in any way validates your belief in your god. If it looks random, and behaves randomly then it might as well be random (think of a duck). Irrelevant, as far as the man on the street is concerned. Maybe He is too big or even two small to notice his weird creations; maybe he's bored; maybe he decided to abdicate His powers and chill out?
When I look at the world I do not see randomness, I see order. While I might not know the particular reason why something happens in most instances I can identify the underlying reason why God allows things to happen. And beyond that I'm quite certain that all things occur so that ultimately God might be glorified.
I doubt if your vision in these matters is any better than the next man.
Your doubt is understandable... especially given that I'm just a stranger on the web.
How can you tell? Really?
LOL. I'm in no position to answer that question. My experience with romance is limited... which might be evidenced by the fact that I'm answering you late on a friday night.