infinite
New member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2014
- Messages
- 565
- MBTI Type
- ISTP
- Enneagram
- ~8
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
I assume by this you mean that you don’t put your emotions out everywhere you either channel it or alternatively only reveal this side to those who are close to you? Because that is extremely Alpha, if you read Gulenko’s group perceptions you will find them labelled as “shallow,†they rarely express emotions especially disruptive ones in group settings; feeling that they don’t have the right (Se), or the moral imperative (Fi).
I know you didn't address that part to me but I'd like to know about the opposite of this; typically what quadra or function is it if someone doesn't really think about the right to express emotions, with bad control over when to express them?... because that's me, the only thing making me at least try and delay expression of strong negative emotions somewhat if I get aware that some people might think bad of me, in certain social settings. But even that consideration doesn't always surface.
That’s JCF masquerading as socionics, a IEIs Se motivations remain the same regardless of how effective they are at Se. IEIs particularly Ni subtype are emotionally explosive individuals, the less developed ones tend to have horrible control and unleash it willy nilly think Fiona Apple. At the other end of the spectrum, an IEI will carefully express emotions to control an environment. But no matter which way you swing it they are very expressive, because emotional expression is a very useful tool to have.
Heh you later say that F types have control over how to use feelings. So then even F types can be undeveloped yeah? How are undeveloped F types different from T types in terms of this?
On further consideration I have decided this definition of IEI SLE duality is completely useless. One; SLEs are not, “big dreamers†that is the purview of Ne leads, versus Ni leads who are long term dreamers, SLEs really struggle with both. Secondly it’s so vague it could be applied to IXXp EXXp relationships, hell it could apply to IXXx EXXx relationships. I’m blaming it on a bad machine translation.
If you notice I already explained above that that desc of IEI/SLE duality doesn't make sense to me.
I can confirm I struggle with the dreaming thingie. It's not to say it's not great to have big dreams and put them into reality but to get the long term big dreams and especially getting them fleshed out, I think some Ni is needed for that. That's my experience anyway... Am I making sense to you here?
If I remember correctly and I am rusty at enneagram, a five under stress disintegrates to a seven, they essentially become terrified that they are incompetent and cannot deal with reality. They absorb copious amounts of theoretical data in the hopes of overcoming this dread, mental avarice. A healthy five becomes an expert in whatever field they wish; having learnt how to take care of themselves. In my mind that really does sound like Alpha NTs getting a handle on the Id Block.
Why can't that data be Te for e.g. an ILI? So I still really don't see five as exclusive to alpha NT...
What is this about getting a handle on the Id block? I have never heard about this being included in the development of socionics type. Where did you read about it?
Ah I missed that, Beta STs are quite bad at image building. It requires an intricate understanding of group dynamics (FeSe), and the long term vision to see its usefulness (Ni). In LSI you will see next to no image building, longterm planning they can do, but social interaction really isn't their strong point. SLEs will often try to craft an image, but they vastly overestimate their skills and subtlety. To the outside world they usually just end up looking like self-absorbed braggarts, always having to be the centre of the story, the victor, the hero. The smart SLE often realise that the best way to craft an image is by doing what they do best practical ambition, let their work speak for them.
Thanks yeah this makes sense, I relate to this pretty well. I'm kind of between LSI and SLE here.
I think the idea of a LSI sp first is probably a common variant. SLE I would say it would be less common, but at the same time not impossible. A Beta NF Sp first, is just such a contradiction, it would end up making all of the Beta NF strengths fall on their head. The Beta NFs are the social butterflies; the Beta STs supply the logistics and drive.
I was asking about soc-last, that can be either sp-first or sx-first.
I'm going to say it sounds so boring to just have the role of supplying logistics.
What kind of "drive" did you mean? Motivation?
Anyway the reason I asked about this... I really think I'm soc-last but sometimes I get this envious of people who are good at the social stuff and image thingies. I mean I don't care about trying to craft some refined persona, I wouldn't know how I'd go about being refined and it'd be too limiting for my natural tendencies, but I still easily notice if it someone else has that sort of thing going on. Social influence, control over the dynamics and a refined image. It's cool. Otoh I'm kind of feeling antagonistic about it at the same time, that's why I used the word "envious". Soc-last people are supposed to be really unaware of these things... Is this just a soc-last Beta then or I'm not soc-last and it's just that I'm simply not good at NF things? Can you even make sense of what I'm talking about here?
Alpha naiveté wins the day; they almost never manage to pick up on the image manipulation of the Beta NFs. when the cage match starts they do one of three things; one they avoid the whole shambles, two if they know or like the participants they will pull some sort of comic relief try to ease tensions, or three being confused by the group dynamics wander in an give a speech on individualism.
Lol. OK, one last thing, how does a Beta typically react to the situation if otherwise being an outsider with regard to the participants of the "cage match"?
Of all the Quadras the Betas are the least concerned with being authentic, hence why they irritate the Deltas so much. Betas NFs really do struggle with image issues often times it can become completely detached from reality; actually I might use this to show you a better example of IEI SLE duality. When a IEIs image starts to get so detached an SLE who is a master of objective reality will essentially pull the IEI up on this behaviour. Now if the IEI is in a healthy state of mind; they will correct it to align with their current environment. On the other hand if they are of an unhealthy state of mind, this approach will cause the IEI to react extremely negatively quite often explosively so.
Stratiyevskaya has an excellent, albeit negative example of this:
This is an interesting analysis of IEI/SLE duality. Thanks. Definitely very far from the idealized bullshit Makes a loooooot more sense tbh. Have you got some more examples of this IEI/SLE duality?
Muted as in my personal presence is muffled. Think of a sheet over a lamp. People from ventrilo who are familiar with me might be able to confirm that my voice is emotive but my aura is weak. Creative expression is great for the emotional self which is probably why it was easier for me to learn. Expression of the vital self is something I have yet to learn. You might have noticed I used the word "lifeless" in that thread.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by lifeless. Do you feel too void of emotions? Too dispassionate? Or got emotions internally but no way to express them? Or this is something else entirely? I'm not even sure what you mean by vital self tbh. Can you explain that a bit? Sorry, I may not have read everything in your self-description carefully so if you already explained this, just point me to that part in your posts.
On the other hand being filled with emotional expressions, yet being unable to properly express them is actually a sign of Fe in its suggestive form.
Then do Fe suggestive types "improperly" express them or not at all? Or how do those types manage to get these emotions "released"?
Heaven save me from Se polr; in a forum that currently has such topics as “rimmingâ€, “when did you lose your virginityâ€, and “where have you gone at it outsideâ€, trust me when I say that wasn’t even close to being imposingly raw. I think that it was an excellent analysis of yourself; you should be proud that you could stare into the mirror so, not many have the guts for it.
Lol I would agree. Both on how it it wasn't "crazy raw" and on how it was a pretty good analysis.
Btw. I just skimmed it but I want to add that I saw more Si than Ne in there and more Fe than Ti. I dunno if that means anything in that context Where do you see Ti-leading for OP? Just simply the nice analysis / description? I didn't see it as very Ti or anything, just someone who's observed themselves for a while.