You do a huge service by asking questions about what we've said (which in Fi land would be rude because you'd offer that information if you wanted to talk about it and appreciate people not going there if you didn't.). Sometimes to process things, Fe users really need to know that it is safe and that you are interested. Stuff like, "So what happened then?" "Why do you think he was doing that?"
For some reason the second question feels extremely strange to me. It is incredibly unnatural and almost taboo. I dunno why...Can you give examples of other questions you might ask?
Waiting for the non-verbal invitation to offer other perspectives seems to work much better. You can usually tell when it's time because the person will start thinking about how their ranting may be perceived or they may add qualifiers that show they are beginning to modify the strength of feeling in their initial outburst.
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^^This was very helpful, thank you. Once i learned I shouldn't overtly disagree, I wasnt sure exactly what to do, so just listened, asked questions, and agreed with everything they said...perhaps not so helpful, but I did try and be supportive.
It may seem ridiculous, but I really need that sort of thing to sort out what I think and feel. Otherwise it feels overwhelmingly difficult to deal with, and yet I can't will resent someone coming in uninvited to take over solving the problem for me or telling me that I am incorrect in my perception.
re Your perspective being felt by other Fe users as unsupportive - I think I get that way too. I've decided that it usually happens when I feel that the other person has not taken time to completely understand the situation and are trying to rush to the problem-solving too fast, or when they try to play the devil's advocate, not understanding that what may look like frustration or anger can be hurt or unsureness.
If I may add a slight twist to the thread...
how long does it take Ti to find the best answer and how does this compare to Te for a problem? How does the problem solving convert to actions?
This may actually not be the correct question...an illustration of a situation whee I ran into the "thinking too fast" problem is below. It is presented not to be self-centric, but because it seems to be a representation of this type of communication issue.:
My ISTP Ex: Maybe you should think about if it is a good idea for ethan (16yo enfp son) to keep dating his girlfriend, given his grades have dropped some.
Me: *Thinking for ten seconds* Hmm, well I think it is still okay, we should watch his grades by the week and try and observe if he is turning in homework, but it should be okay.
My ISTP Ex: No, really, maybe you should think about it.
me: *thinking* well I think it is okay, we just keep an eye on him and be ready to step in if needed
My ISTP Ex: *getting frustrated* No, REALLY, you should think about it for awhile.
Me: (intenally-WHY is he getting mad...if he doesnt want him to date the girl he should just say so...why cant he be honest rather than so passive agressive about the issue) "You know, if it bothers you that Ethan is dating this girl, we can talk about it-I am totally cool with him not dating her, just let me know what you want"
My ISTP ex: THAT ISNT WHAT I SAID. Why cant you just think about it for awhile?
Me: *forced calm* "I DID think about it and that was my decision. Why are you being passive agressive about this? Look, let's just talk about this later and we can figure out what we want to do.
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At this point he left and his INTJ dad and ISTP mom were still present, having watched the convo.
Me: "why is he being so passive agressive about this? Why cant he just say what he wants? I am totally cool doing exactly what he wants but he just wont be upfront about it?? He just needs to tell me what he wants me to do and quite being immature about what he wants and just tell me."
INTJ dad: *laughs* "oh honey, I have had this same argument hundreds of times over the twenty years I have been married to your mom (the ISTP). They just dont think as fast as we do. What I learned was that you even if you decide on something and know exactly what you will do, you tell them you will think about it for awhile and then come back later and do what you planned in the first place"
ISTP mom: He isnt being passive agressive, he just doesnt think you are thinking about it hard enough or long enough.
INTJ dad: "no, some people just think faster and know what they want right away. You and "ISTP ex" just think slowly."
ISTP mom: well you just cant rush into making up ideas.
INTJ dad: to me "Your mom (the istp) will take days and days to plan out every detail of what she wants to do and it has to be perfect.
The ISTP was getting uncomfortable so I changed the subject.
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Questions-how long does "thinking" take? What are signs another has thought enough? Is there really this big of a gap in "thinking" turn around time between a Ti and Te problem solving approach? What other things need to be considered that are not?
I keep seeing INFJs in forum threads mention how much the quick problem solving can feel rushed and constrictive, so I would like to understand it more fully, as that isnt the intent.
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Now to twist this point back on itself, with respect to he slowness of Fi, an illustration of a convo with my ENTP best friend:
Her: What do you need me to feel for you today, in three days, three years?
me: *stammering* I dont understand what you are asking for...what does that mean exactly?
Her:"ISTJ husband has that exact same look when I ask him this. You guys just look stupid and your jaw gapes. What are you feeling RIGHT now? What will you feel tommorrow??"
Me: I dont know. I had have to think about it for awhile. It defies words. How could I have any idea what I will feel tommorrow...I mean I could make something up, but that doesnt mean it will be real. I would be lying to you. I can tell you that I will always be there to do anything for you that you ever need, but I cant tell you what I will feel at any particular moment.
Her: ISTJ husband says the same exact thing. How can you not have any idea what you will feel in the future? Why cant you just talk about what you are feeling with words? Isnt that part of emotional maturity?
Me: I duuno, I think that as part of Fe. If I talk about my in the moment feelings, you are going to get a lot of gibberish and weirdness with a ton of monentary fluctuations. It's like a wind chime blowing in the breeze...
It seems Fi has the same issue in some sense with describing feelings. I admit being REALLY annoyed when I see this inability to speak about emotion in a polished manner as being emotionally immature. Different yes, but immature, no.
Questions: Does it sometimes happen that does an inability to speak about emotions in an Fi user, morphs into a clinical description of "immaturity" or " emotional coldness" when in reality, it is just a need for more time to process and reflect?
Sorry [MENTION=8904]Esoteric Wench[/MENTION] , I may have deviated your thread just a touch. I see these as very interelated, just another aspect of the same underlying issue-Ne FTW.