something boring
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................. Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense.
Last edited:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................. Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense.
you write very cleanly. do tell more about your perceptions of si vs se. se is both intj and infj inferior, what do you think about its usage in such types?
We're talking some about it here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/14799-intjs-public-places.html
(And what Phoenity just said seems to dovetail nicely with that INTJ discussion.)
Also... but Phoe, your description above (and given your starsign of ISTP), is that Se recalled or actual Si? It reads a lot like what I suppose Se to be.
EDIT: also, as an addendum, does anyone else find it difficult to give a complement to other Se users? Tell an ENXJ, "Wow, you're beautiful!" and the answer will be either:
"I'm not beautiful"
or
"Yes, I rule!"
Maybe it's just for tertiary and inferior Se users.
In recent forum times, it was Poki I first saw mention that Se looks to Si for interaction.
And as a broad generalisation, it's beginning to look to me that, for perceiving functions, i/e opposites attract, while for judging functions, i/e opposites repel.
Introverted sensing is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail.
Introverted sensing focuses on tangible, direct (because external) connections (because introverted) between processes (because dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical/sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.
In contrast to , is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.
In contrast to , Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.
1. Introverted sensing
SLIs are naturally good at knowing what kinds of activities and stimuli will produce which sensations and physical states in themselves and the people around them. They are highly sensitive to sensations of internal discomfort and dissonance, or when someone or something is aesthetically out of place. They usually take quick action to remove the discomfort, dissonance, or misplacement so that things "feel right." They are attracted to material (concrete) objects which produce the "right" sensations and physical states, such as stereo systems which produce the best sounds or clothes that produce the best feelings either through their pleasant texture and ease of use or through their aesthetic appeal. They dislike it when others deny them of pleasurable material objects and can get quite possessive and territorial when claiming or re-claiming them.
SLIs are skilled at recognizing and remembering their own and others' internal physical states and at imagining how different things would affect that state. When analyzing the behavior of themselves and others, they focus on these physical states and see them as determining much of a person's actions. They prefer to keep their lifestyle and living space simple and to avoid excessive, gaudy possessions and excessively complex living habits and duties. SLIs encourage those they care about to take the time to experience pleasurable and soothing sensations, avoid getting caught up in the hustle and bustle of everyday life, and to listen to their bodies and their sincere inner desires. They can be concerned with their own health and those they know.
SLIs are drawn to situations which allow them to maximize these physical states and like to dwell on soothing, pleasurable sensations, or the enjoyment of physical motion. They often seek physical and manual involvement in work activities. SLIs prefer to get involved in business projects rather than sit back and let things happen on their own (weak Ni too). SLIs are adept at portraying excitement and disgust through their physical gestures.
So my question to you, can you see the introverted sensing in the recalled experience I described above? It wasn't apparent to me before, but notice I only wrote about my direct experience and how it made me feel, and that I didn't include that I noticed external things, which would be Se, correct?
Sitting here now I can very vividly recall the sensory experience of my swim this morning. I've been trying to teach myself a couple different swim techniques attempting to increase the efficiency of my movement through the water. I internalize every swim session so that I can reflect on it and get some ideas of what to try differently next time so that I can continue to improve.
I believe so.
Working off definitions, it looks totally like Se, and not Si.
Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail.
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones.
I suppose you could have been storing that data while swimming, and in your own mind comparing the sensations to previous sensations, but the way you wrote it was of someone not inside his head comparing memories, but of someone right there in the moment having the sensations. Facing outward.
Dunno, though. Only you can say, really.
We probably need a confirmed ISTJ and a confirmed ISTP to compare notes on what it is to spend 45 minutes in the pool. Because if we're relying on this INTJ to know what's what, we could be in for a long wait and a lot of waffle.
Oh, EDIT to observe whoops: because you also say...
So, yep, I've definitely don't know which process is dominant for you.
What I can say is the actual swim experience you describe sounds like something I can recognise, so I'm understanding it as something I can do to a limited extent, so I'm calling Se. The part about internalising every swim session is not something I recognise in myself.
But hey, the feature of internalising the experience with a view to developing the skill, is that pure and simple Si in operation, or Se having fun in the pool and then running it through Ni for implications and future development?
Oy vey, can we get a variety of sensors in to state some real understanding of these issues? I don't like being the one half-guessing some answers without knowing my half-guesses are right.
The tertiary function is an underhand.I'm having such a problem understanding this (go figure -- as the whole issue of Sensing is like speaking Swahili at me). Sensing is supposed to be my tertiary function, but it is by far the weakest leg holding up my table. Introverted Thinking is fourth process, but is stronger than my tertiary. I have no idea why that would be. And why would Sensing be a tertiary function when I know so many NFJs who GRAPPLE with the physical world?
I'll highlight what I relate to below:
*Se -- Experiencing and noticing the physical world, scanning for visible reactions and relevant data.
Being attracted to and/or distracted by changing external events. Adapting and changing your mind according to the situation. Focusing on facts. Asking lots of questions to get enough information to see the pattern. Going ahead and responding to raw data. Physical self-expression.
*Si -- (my deceiving shadow process) -- Recalling past experiences, remembering detailed data and what it is linked to.
Being heavily influenced by prior experiences. Distrusting new information that doesn't match. Assuming an understanding of a situation because it resembles a prior one. Focusing on facts and stored data. Giving lots of specific, sequential details about something. Rating and making comparison.
I don't seem to notice the world unless it's intruding on me or I'm actively paying attention. Being raised in violence and alcoholism surrounded by a terrible neighborhood has made me overly watchful, but it hasn't bolstered my ability to use what little I have of a Sensing function whatsoever. You'd think it would have. I'm starting to wonder (worry) that I have no connection to my Sensing side at all. My father is this way and he struggles.
Physical self-expression: I dress boldly, but I don't do well with, say, the romantic end of things because the minute I'm made aware of myself, I become too aware and I shut down. My sister is always asking me common sense questions or saying things like "When did you brush your hair?... yesterday?! Brush your hair!" or "Your pants have a hole in them. It's time for new ones" or "You're going to freeze. Put on a coat." Did I notice the hole in my pants? Probably not. Or if I did, I didn't think about it again. I don't notice the lawn needs to be mowed. Or the bills need to be paid. I have to concentrate really hard to remember that stuff, and to approach the physical realm as something other than scary or devouring or flabbergasting.
When a man/woman gives me a compliment, or tells me they think I'm beautiful, I turn into a block. I feel like I have no business drawing such a comment because I feel that divorced from the physical. You know, like an impostor. Not to say I'm awkward. I just NEVER get past being mystified when people notice me or when I'm magically NOT invisible.
My question is: Am I working off of my shadow more than I thought? can anyone PLEASE explain the Se and show me where it exerts any force on me at all?
I'm having such a problem understanding this (go figure -- as the whole issue of Sensing is like speaking Swahili at me). Sensing is supposed to be my tertiary function, but it is by far the weakest leg holding up my table. Introverted Thinking is fourth process, but is stronger than my tertiary. I have no idea why that would be.
Maybe it's just that you're INFJ.
Also, I tend to feel invisible a lot as well, although in my case, I usually am. Sometimes I want to say something to someone, and I feel like I'm saying it, but they're not hearing it.