Humane Execution ?

[kuranes]

The "lethal injection" was offered up as a more humane way to execute condemned criminals. Up until recently it has mostly consisted of:

STEP ONE - Sodium Thiopental - To put someone to sleep and "generally" anaesthetize them.

STEP TWO - Pancuronium Bromide - Paralyzes everything, including beathing muscles. ( I wonder how this differs in effect from Anectine ? Perhaps longer lasting. )

STEP THREE - Potassium Chloride - Stops heart. ( Found in "salt free" substitute in smaller amounts BTW ! Also supposedly used at times by the CIA to kill unwanted people in such a way that it looks as though they died of common heart failure. )

Prisoners such as Joseph Clark have been known to gasp "Don't work ! Don't work!" indicating Step One was only partially effective. It is thought that some prisoners may have been fully conscious as the paralysis set in. "I hate it when that happens. " Diprivan is suggested as a more modern substitute for the Thiopental. "He looks so peaceful."

I wonder how often the authorities purposely went light on Step One so that the murderer received more "punishment" on the way out ?

 

[cafe]

What is it they give pets to euthanize them? I remember thinking my dog's death was so fast and looked painless.

 

[kuranes]

I'm not sure what they give to pets.

 

[cafe]

I'm googling and googling and I'm not finding what they use. The closest thing I found was about the euthanizing of small lab animals: sodium pentobarbital. Hmmm.

 

[kuranes]

I'm googling and googling and I'm not finding what they use. The closest thing I found was about the euthanizing of small lab animals: sodium pentobarbital. Hmmm.

If they used this ( commonly referred to as Pentothal IIRC) then you can rest easy that your pet probably went out peacefully. )

 

[cafe]

Could we use that to execute people, too?

Edit: That's not to say I'm in favor of executing people. I honestly have mixed feelings about it, but if it is done and our intent is to be humane about it, could we use Sodium pentobarbital on the humans we execute?

 

[Totenkindly]

For That Close Clean Shave

Whatever happened to that oldie but goodie?

The device derives its name from Dr. Joseph-Ignace Guillotin, a French physician and member of the Revolutionary National Assembly, on whose suggestion it was introduced. Dr. Guillotin proposed the use of a mechanical device to carry out the death penalty. The basis for his recommendation is believed to have been his perception that it was a humane form of execution, contrasting with the methods used in pre-revolutionary, ancien regime (old regime) France. In France, before the guillotine, members of the nobility were beheaded with a sword or axe, while commoners were usually hanged, a form of death that could take minutes or longer -- other more gruesome methods of executions were also used, such as the wheel, burning at the stake, etc. In the case of decapitation, it also sometimes took repeated blows to sever the head completely. The condemned or the family of the condemned would sometimes pay the executioner to ensure that the blade was sharp in order to provide for a quick and relatively painless death.

The guillotine was thus perceived to deliver an immediate death without risk of misses. Furthermore, having only one method of execution was seen as an expression of equality among citizens. The guillotine was adopted as the official means of execution on 20 March 1792.

 

[hereandnow]

Whatever happened to that oldie but goodie?

It's quick and the nerves to the body are severed instantly.

An RPG round to the face is also a possibility. However this would require a large field.

 

[Totenkindly]

An RPG round to the face is also a possibility. However this would require a large field.

As well as a mop and a bucket.

 

[hereandnow]

As well as a mop and a bucket.

A large bucket.

 

[Ivy]

I'm guessing they made it painless because of the prohibition on "cruel and unusual" punishment. Regardless of the pain-free methodology, I'm not in favor of the death penalty for several reasons. Some of them are religious and thus have no place in the public sphere, but if any innocent person is ever executed then the penalty is worth discarding, IMO. That's a risk I don't believe we should take. An innocent person can always be released from prison but you can't very well bring them back from beyond the grave.

 

[kuranes]

Could we use that to execute people, too?

Edit: That's not to say I'm in favor of executing people. I honestly have mixed feelings about it, but if it is done and our intent is to be humane about it, could we use Sodium pentobarbital on the humans we execute?

I guess we could kill them with a massive dose of this. It might just result in a coma unless you really used a lot of it. I'm not sure why they add the additional two steps besides the Pentothal. Perhaps just to make sure that they are not simply putting a person into a deep sleep.

To Ivy - yes, my guess is that the lethal injection was adopted to try and comply with the updated "cruel and unusual punishment" stance, but my question is whether it IS in fact still "cruel", when one looks at both the accidental errors I mentioned in the OP, and also the hypothetical purposeful "errors".

A doctor killed his wife after a paralysis chemical had been administered. She still had all feeling and consciousness, but simply couldn't move or breathe. IIRC, he slowly fed her, feet first, into a wood chipper this way. Of course that was a murder, vs. a state sanctioned execution.

Sometimes hospital personnel who have to deal with patients that are refusing treatment ( a drunk brought in with an injury or whatever ) will use a little of this on the worst cases. They will give them just a little taste of what complete paralysis feels like, as though to say "Quit fucking around" and it does tend to get one's attention.

 

[raincrow007]

Why not this?

 

[Ivy]

I guess we could kill them with a massive dose of this. It might just result in a coma unless you really used a lot of it. I'm not sure why they add the additional two steps besides the Pentothal. Perhaps just to make sure that they are not simply putting a person into a deep sleep.

To Ivy - yes, my guess is that the lethal injection was adopted to try and comply with the updated cruel and unusual punishment stance, but my question is whether it IS in fact "cruel", when one looks at the accidental errors, and the on-purpose ( hypothetical ) "errors".

A doctor killed his wife after a paralysis chemical had been administered. She still had all feeling and consciousness, but simply couldn't move or breathe. IIRC, he slowly fed her, feet first, into a wood chipper this way. Of course that was a murder, vs. a state sanctioned execution.

Sometimes hospital personnel who have to deal with patients that are refusing treatment ( a drunk brought in with an injury or whatever ) will use a little of this on the worst cases. They will give them just a little taste of what complete paralysis feels like, as though to say "Quit fucking around" and it does tend to get one's attention.

Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.

 

[kuranes]

Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.

Yeah. Just imagine her final thoughts, if you could call them "thoughts".

I suffer from apnea, which means my snores sometimes cut off my breathing. I have had some horrific mini-nightmares before, that I awake from with a gasp or scream, and then realize that it was probably my brain trying to warn me that "we" had stopped breathing. I hate to think of how that imagery could get worse and worse as the danger signal went unrecognized. Yet many people who have briefly "died" talk about a tunnel of light etc. I would sure hope for the latter. The people who really died and never returned to tell the tale, might have a different story to tell. One would hope that the brain would compensate for situations where there is no "move" that you can make in response. But if that were true, then pain would only last for a little while, just enough to tell us to fix something. But it doesn't.

 

[hereandnow]

but if any innocent person is ever executed then the penalty is worth discarding, IMO. That's a risk I don't believe we should take. An innocent person can always be released from prison but you can't very well bring them back from beyond the grave.

This is a valid point because it does occur. In fact, in all manner of human interaction, innocent people are often hurt. Despite this, there are reasons for excutions IMO. A panel should be chosen to review each case with no one coming from LE or the legal community except in advisory capacity.

 

[Totenkindly]

Damn. Maybe it's not so "humane" after all. That's pretty horrifying about the murder.

To be honest, I wanted to slap you, Kuranes -- I'm still feeling nauseated and have to actively block it out of my mind, to keep from imagining how she felt.

Did the guy get the death penalty?

 

[kuranes]

Did the guy get the death penalty?

I don't remember. But I don't think he got off. IIRC his own son testified against him.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

I believe in the reliability of DNA evidence that is so often used to link criminals to murder that wasn't available 20 years ago. I believe in most states that qualifying for the death penalty requires that you committed a murder with "special circumstances" (torture/rape etc.). The fact that they get to live for many years after their crimes due to appeals (except in TX) is the real atrocity IMO. I think that death by injection probably does get screwed-up often(and perhaps intentionally). I can't say my heart is bleeding over that fact. I have heard worse stories about electric chair and hanging executions that go wrong. I think some of them are lucky to get lethal injection at all. *end of rant*

 

[raincrow007]

To be honest, I wanted to slap you, Kuranes -- I'm still feeling nauseated and have to actively block it out of my mind, to keep from imagining how she felt.

Did the guy get the death penalty?

Wow, what a weird reaction -- I didn't identify with the woman at all really -- instead my brain jumped right to "How the hell could he let her bother him that much?" Or something like that.