[ISTP] too much istp stuff I know.....

[Willfrey]

I'm a firm believer that people don't change.

So if the offense is small, or it is an offense I probably won't bother me if it happens again, then I'm forgiving. Otherwise I'm pretty much zero tolerance on bullshit.

 

[McRumi]

We have obviously had to deal with much different problems in life. I grew up with my dual for 18 years, then have been with my conflicting pair for 11 or 12 years. I agree 100% an ISTP can suddenly break off a long term relationship seemingly out of no where, but you seem to miss the other side of the spectrum about intentions. This is the little twist that people put on actions and why they do them. This is what I believe drives the ENFP to ask themselves "why"(not always an external why), this is what drives the ENFJ into self-deception. This is what ISTPs look at without asking why. We first analyze the functional or objective side regardless of intention, then we will get to the intentions later. But honestly if the functional or objective side works then nada problema. Live and let live.

My motto would be more along the lines of "you cant argue with what works"

LOL. One can always argue.

 

[McRumi]

I'm a firm believer that people don't change.

So if the offense is small, or it is an offense I probably won't bother me if it happens again, then I'm forgiving. Otherwise I'm pretty much zero tolerance on bullshit.

You must be young (i.e., under 50). People do change. All the time.

 

[Willfrey]

You must be young (i.e., under 50). People do change. All the time.

Ah yes, the age argument. You know what, you're completely right, you win.

 

[McRumi]

excellent.

 

[Heinel]

You must be young (i.e., under 50). People do change. All the time.

If I have to wait 50 years for someone to change, forget it.

 

[McRumi]

For some people we ISTPs befriend, it' s the perfect amount of time to elapse before that next call. I love how we can hold relationships in suspended animation.

 

[Heinel]

For some people we ISTPs befriend, it' s the perfect amount of time to elapse before that next call. I love how we can hold relationships in suspended animation.

Hum. I wanted to respond to this, but I think I'm speechless.

It's interesting that one of my favorite songs have lyrics that says exactly the same thing...

 

[sLiPpY]

Hum. I wanted to respond to this, but I think I'm speechless.

It's interesting that one of my favorite songs have lyrics that says exactly the same thing...

I want to know what the song is.

 

[Heinel]

I want to know what the song is.

It's not in English, but the title is "Alchemy."

So the lyrics is about getting a person to love the speaker, even if she had to wait for 50 years, kind of like in alchemy, creating gold is an arduous process. I wouldn't say it's a song that's particularly attractive to SLIs as it is SEI. Since only emotional aspects are mentioned, but not concepts. But then, who can confidently say that there is a T/F distinction in love?

 

[McRumi]

Reminds me of the movie Babette's Feast...

 

[millerm277]

I'll chime in late. I also agree with the notion of "forgive, but don't forget".

I'm forgiving, and I let people prove themselves again....but I don't forget things they've done in the past, and keep them in mind when asking them to do something, or whatever. I am not forgiving with any sort of lying or deception, whether or not it was "harmful".

 

[sLiPpY]

I'll chime in late. I also agree with the notion of "forgive, but don't forget".

I'm forgiving, and I let people prove themselves again....but I don't forget things they've done in the past, and keep them in mind when asking them to do something, or whatever. I am not forgiving with any sort of lying or deception, whether or not it was "harmful".

There is one form of lying and/or deception I'm accepting of.

If it's an ISTP or some other type I sense is attempting to tell me something, they're needing to talk about, but are afraid they can't contain the associated emotions that might rush forward into a physical expression such as sobbing.

I've noticed some ISTP friends would tell the story, but alter it in such away to keep it from getting too close to them. I've done that myself.

What's amazing to me is seeing how the story would eventually evolve over the years...loose the emotional charge it once held, and the contrast in the details between the essence of what occurred and what actually happened:

Can finally be verbalized without the emotional charge and power they once held.

That type of lying and/or deception I can tolerate, I find it refreshing and in some ways a vehicle for establishing trust?

 

[Heinel]

There is one form of lying and/or deception I'm accepting of.

If it's an ISTP or some other type I sense is attempting to tell me something, they're needing to talk about, but are afraid they can't contain the associated emotions that might rush forward into a physical expression such as sobbing.

I've noticed some ISTP friends would tell the story, but alter it in such away to keep it from getting too close to them. I've done that myself.

What's amazing to me is seeing how the story would eventually evolve over the years...loose the emotional charge it once held, and the contrast in the details between the essence of what occurred and what actually happened:

Can finally be verbalized without the emotional charge and power they once held.

That type of lying and/or deception I can tolerate, I find it refreshing and in some ways a vehicle for establishing trust?

So you only can take lies when they're not lies?

Once you realized that the fluff was meant to divert the reference away from the speaker, you would mentally link the references back to the speaker, so there was no lie. It was only a form of expression that you decoded the same way the speaker encoded it.

 

[sLiPpY]

Yes, and I'll give you an example. One of my friends was adopted because his father abandoned the family at the age of 5.

The story I originally heard placed the friend at a much younger age, where he didn't fully understand the choice that was being made. There were some other details that well, I'll keep those for him. I could tell that friend was having a difficult time telling but he needed to hear himself say it out loud.

Years later, the story of the adoption came up again. Only this time my friend was 16 and not the small child in the one he shared when we first met.

I fully understood that as a young man, my friend felt conflicted about having changed his last name, even though his father had made no attempt to contact him in over eleven years.

Nine years later, it was nice to observe my buddy had a greater comfort zone and no longer felt as conflicted in having made that decision.

 

[Heinel]

Yes, and I'll give you an example. One of my friends was adopted because his father abandoned the family at the age of 5.

The story I originally heard placed the friend at a much younger age, where he didn't fully understand the choice that was being made. There were some other details that well, I'll keep those for him. I could tell that friend was having a difficult time telling but he needed to hear himself say it out loud.

Years later, the story of the adoption came up again. Only this time my friend was 16 and not the small child in the one he shared when we first met.

I fully understood that as a young man, my friend felt conflicted about having changed his last name, even though his father had made no attempt to contact him in over eleven years.

Nine years later, it was nice to observe my buddy had a greater comfort zone and no longer felt as conflicted in having made that decision.

Hmm. That's an interesting position to take. I wonder how much can I twist the situation and still have it satisfy your requirement...

 

[McRumi]

Hmm. That's an interesting position to take. I wonder how much can I twist the situation and still have it satisfy your requirement...

 

[Heinel]

Oh, if you are in an auditorium full of people, and your acquaintance farted an awful fart, and you ask him whether it was him he said no, when in actual fact he is, is that okay?

 

[sLiPpY]

Hmm. That's an interesting position to take. I wonder how much can I twist the situation and still have it satisfy your requirement...

Good question.

I think we're all aware that in reading the written word we're missing out on nearly eighty percent of the total communication. We have words that do not always convey accurate meaning or intent in absence of voice tonality.

We do not always fully understand another human being over a telephone, the voice tonality may not match up with the facial expression and body language.

I can't give you a structured answer, it's based upon instinct...and however my bullshit detector reads as to the actual intent.

Set off the bullshit detector and your phone won't ring again.

Set off the empathy detector and survive another day.

 

[sLiPpY]

Oh, if you are in an auditorium full of people, and your acquaintance farted an awful fart, and you ask him whether it was him he said no, when in actual fact he is, is that okay?

If I were in an auditorium and the individual accompanying farted, I wouldn't stop to ask if it were them. I'd more likely say, "Well, why didn't you just go ahead and light it."