[ISTP] ISTPs ego issues

[Grayscale]

You're all wrong! Very, very wrong!

haven't you read the thread? you need a better argument than that, this aint gonna cut it. :yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[Poki]

I don't think I'm better than others but I know I can do a lot of things better than others Confidence or ego? I'd say it's a fine line. But instead of talking about it - I show it. So it doesn't come off as arrogance. Sometimes I'll say something off the cuff about something I did and realize I said too much - like my inner ego comes out in a quick sentence and it sounds...conceited (ugh) I hate that! Then I'm kind of disgusted with myself for a minute.

The last few posters I can really relate to all of what they say. Pretty accurate and it's interesting to see what others (ENFP's here) see these things as.

I am the same way. I suck at interviews because I externally question what I can do, but inside I know I can take on the world and accomplish anything. I just have to wait for something to take on and accomplish worth while.

 

[onemoretime]

I'd say ISTPs don't have an ego (and you are absolutely correct on ENTPs having a gargantuan ego, we just don't realize it). However, the ISTPs I know are cocky as all hell - they truly don't believe there's a challenge that they can't figure out how to conquer. That's a good thing, however - they never back down from a challenge.

 

[Poki]

I'd say ISTPs don't have an ego (and you are absolutely correct on ENTPs having a gargantuan ego, we just don't realize it). However, the ISTPs I know are cocky as all hell - they truly don't believe there's a challenge that they can't figure out how to conquer. That's a good thing, however - they never back down from a challenge.

I pick and choose what I back down on, but I dont think I am cocky as hell. I can be, but generally IRL I am far from cocky I think.

edit: give me enough time an I will reverse engineer MBTI and prove that the functions are accurate, the descriptions is what cause all the problems. The drive, the people in my life that I have a desire to help them be happy, in the process they are helping me learn more about what I need and want to be happy. Reverse engineering is what I am good at.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I'd say ISTPs don't have an ego (and you are absolutely correct on ENTPs having a gargantuan ego, we just don't realize it). However, the ISTPs I know are cocky as all hell - they truly don't believe there's a challenge that they can't figure out how to conquer. That's a good thing, however - they never back down from a challenge.

ENTP's don't realize they have a big ego??!!

I've known a couple ENTP's (one for over half my life) and they are their own biggest fans.

EDIT: I love em' tho!

 

[Halla74]

I can't speak for ISTPs, but as one of their extroverted cousins, I can say that there is truth in a "STP" ego complex of some capacity.

My ego is commensurate with my abilities. I don't say or do anything that I can't back up. Some people have a problem with those of us who live this way, but I don't lose sleep over that.

I'd be interested to see an ISTP ego in action. I'm such their reasoning/method of arguing/etc. is very similar to that of an ESTP, but I suspect their implementation of it is indeed different. ESTPs can be a little over the top. Oopsy! :yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[onemoretime]

ENTP's don't realize they have a big ego??!!

I've known a couple ENTP's (one for over half my life) and they are their own biggest fans.

EDIT: I love em' tho!

We think our extreme self-confidence is normal. Commensurate with this, we think that self-doubt is really weird.

I know, even more egotastic.

I think that's what amuses ISTPs about us - they're willing to call us on our bullshit, but not think any worse of us for it.

I can't speak for ISTPs, but as one of their extroverted cousins, I can say that there is truth in a "STP" ego complex of some capacity.

My ego is commensurate with my abilities. I don't say or do anything that I can't back up. Some people have a problem with those of us who live this way, but I don't lose sleep over that.

I'd be interested to see an ISTP ego in action. I'm such their reasoning/method of arguing/etc. is very similar to that of an ESTP, but I suspect their implementation of it is indeed different. ESTPs can be a little over the top. Oopsy! :yim_rolling_on_the_

It is very similar, if only a little more detailed - one of my best buddies who is the epitome of ISTP has never said an illogical statement that I can remember. He's really good at painting a concrete picture with his speech, displaying a natural acuity for the outside world. They're really, really good at exploring the practical aspects of philosophy - liking the logical aspects of it, but firmly in the real world. Quite honestly, they're some of the most interesting people on the planet.

Meanwhile, any sort of discussion with my ESTP buddies inevitably descends into a morass of crude jokes and double entendres - we really can't help ourselves.

 

[onemoretime]

I pick and choose what I back down on, but I dont think I am cocky as hell. I can be, but generally IRL I am far from cocky I think.

edit: give me enough time an I will reverse engineer MBTI and prove that the functions are accurate, the descriptions is what cause all the problems. The drive, the people in my life that I have a desire to help them be happy, in the process they are helping me learn more about what I need and want to be happy. Reverse engineering is what I am good at.

I guess what I was more getting at is the following.

We're sitting on a porch out in the mountains. I see a ridge a reasonable distance away. It's climbable, if difficult and somewhat dangerous. I tell you, "hey, I bet you can't climb up to the top of the ridge". You've done some rock climbing in your day, and you know you have the required skill level.

Is there any way you're not on top of that ridge, taunting me with things like "so, you really thought I couldn't get up here, huh?"

 

[luminous beam]

I am only speaking for myself here, but I have a lot of ego issues because of always thinking I know the best way to do things when I don't. However, I notice very few people are not intimidated to the point that they would point out my mistakes even though I want them to. When they do, they often communicate these things in such an enigmatic way that I don't even know they're trying to help me or correct me in the first place.

define enigmatic, how are "these ppl" communicating things "enigmatically?"

This makes me want to try and read between the lines, but honestly I would just rather they be more upfront because that is a more efficient way to communicate and if I was helping them I would try to make it easy to understand by doing the same.

honestly, how silly, stupid or stubborn would someone need to make you feel in order for you to drop what or how you're doing things and do them the new way?

First off, any advice? Am I just doomed to always have to learn everything the hard way 'cause nobody is going to point me in the right direction?

this is a prime example of egotistic language. i suggest you tell the friends or people you'd like upfront and genuine opinions/advice from that you're looking for just that.

Secondly, I strongly believe the ISTP aka 'individualist extraordinaire' has ego issues that are very deep-seated, making them hard for us to notice before it's too late. any other ISTPs relate to this? how do you keep yourself in check when nobody else is willing to?

yes @ deep seated issues, it's cuz you guys detach emotionally usually. if you don't confront emotions head on some negative ones can fester and backfire in many different ways creating anger, denial, self absorption, resentment, indifference, etc

 

[Grayscale]

define enigmatic, how are "these ppl" communicating things "enigmatically?"

most often people just assume everyone sees things the way they see them, so they leave a lot of blanks. I know what they're saying, but if I explain myself then I am not encouraging them to check their own ideas systematically or speak clearly and to the point. even if i chose to explain it to them, they arent usually willing to listen because by that point they are frustrated by the miscommunication.

honestly, how silly, stupid or stubborn would someone need to make you feel in order for you to drop what or how you're doing things and do them the new way?

it's not about how I feel, it's about trying to reach a solution.

this is a prime example of egotistic language. i suggest you tell the friends or people you'd like upfront and genuine opinions/advice from that you're looking for just that.

I have told them that, they still won't and it's not like I can beat it out of them. seems like they refuse to consider that people might genuinely want to help them and to not take things personally, so they assume I am going to respond negatively if they point out my flaws (I never have). When I give them advice, they assume I am pushing them around and get defensive--again, untrue, I want them to be responsible for their own choices and simply supply them with methods or information that were helpful to me in a similar situation. how we perceive ourselves plays a big part in communication, because we analyze the actions of everyone we interact with through the predisposition of our own thinking. at least, im finding this is the cornerstone of my communication issues.

yes @ deep seated issues, it's cuz you guys detach emotionally usually. if you don't confront emotions head on some negative ones can fester and backfire in many different ways creating anger, denial, self absorption, resentment, indifference, etc

that really depends on whether someone has come to terms with the emotion and places it aside, or ignores it. because we can detach, it is easy for us to ignore emotions which come back to bite us later, but that is not to say we couldn't have a bit of emotional discernment and simply see why certain feelings make sense or not

with ISTPs, I am guessing the big misunderstanding is that we experience the entire spectrum of emotion... when what we think is probably much simpler, much more practical than that, so much so that few people would guess it.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Is ego being used here as "the self"? or is it being used as a synonym for arrogance?

If it's being used in the Freudian sense, how the balls are you going to tell me that some people don't have it at all and that some people have too much of it. Furthermore, who are you to assume that a certain type(often an arbitrary stereotype) has more or less of it? I will hunt you down.

 

[onemoretime]

define enigmatic, how are "these ppl" communicating things "enigmatically?"

We're not all intuitors.

honestly, how silly, stupid or stubborn would someone need to make you feel in order for you to drop what or how you're doing things and do them the new way?

Fi is showing.

this is a prime example of egotistic language. i suggest you tell the friends or people you'd like upfront and genuine opinions/advice from that you're looking for just that.

He doesn't want advice, read closer. He wants to be guided in the right direction. Too often, when you ask for advice, people will pontificate without saying anything. Sometimes, you just need to plant the seed that will eventually point the way to where the other person needs to go.

It's not egotistical at all to feel despair that this isn't an easy thing to find.

yes @ deep seated issues, it's cuz you guys detach emotionally usually. if you don't confront emotions head on some negative ones can fester and backfire in many different ways creating anger, denial, self absorption, resentment, indifference, etc

I swear, Fe behavior is completely incomprehensible to you, isn't it?

He's not avoiding the issues - he's simply not burdening other people with his problems. Everyone's life is already hard enough without having to saddle them with your own baggage. Why not just work it out in your own head?

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Let me be clear. All I want is for this to stop. I have no idea what you could possibly want. What would be a successful outcome here?

A successful outcome? When was a successful outcome a thread-wide goal?

 

[Grayscale]

Let me be clear. All I want is for this to stop. I have no idea what you could possibly want. What would be a successful outcome here?

People who are generally competent still make mistakes and need other people to help them out, this applies to everyone but ISTPs are said to have high proficiency so i targeted them specifically. we cant always know when were doing something wrong, so we count on other people to set us straight, but this doesnt work if something within our ego makes us seem unapproachable.

the point of discussing our ego is to learn about it so we can consider how it affects our communication with others.

maybe im asking for the impossible if this isnt something we can fix, but it seems discussion worthy to me either way.

 

[sLiPpY]

People who are generally competent still make mistakes and need other people to help them out, this applies to everyone but ISTPs are said to have high proficiency so i targeted them specifically. we cant always know when were doing something wrong, so we count on other people to set us straight, but this doesnt work if something within our ego makes us seem unapproachable.

the point of discussing our ego is to learn about it so we can consider how it affects our communication with others.

maybe im asking for the impossible if this isnt something we can fix, but it seems discussion worthy to me either way.

It's a good topic... as the years rolled by I've been able to see myself more
clearly. That's all I'd really care to say about it.

 

[StephMC]

But instead of talking about it - I show it. So it doesn't come off as arrogance. Sometimes I'll say something off the cuff about something I did and realize I said too much - like my inner ego comes out in a quick sentence and it sounds...conceited (ugh) I hate that! Then I'm kind of disgusted with myself for a minute.

Yes! So true. I agree with a lot of what people said, actually. Anyways... I don't really consider it an ego. I think ISTPs have a very realistic measure of what they can and cannot do, while most "egotistical" people have an unrealistic measure. I'm not gonna kid myself if I can't do something, or can't do it as well as I'd like. But if no one's around to help, I just get it done. Although I admit, there are still a lot of times I get impatient with the process of letting someone help me...sometimes because I don't trust they're competent enough about that particular thing, but mostly because I find it very taxing to have to explain why I'm doing things (it takes more energy to talk than to just -do-)... and usually THAT happens because with people who are not like-minded, I feel like I have to translate from my language to a their language (Or really... increase Fe and decrease Ti, which is draining). I'm more likely to listen if I have an easy form of communication with that person (Usually TPs). But I'll tell ya, like Amargith said, if I come across someone who knows their shit, I am ALL ears. After all, I've gotten much better about all of this, and can accept help more often from others. Thankfully, I've been surrounded by several friends and family members who I consider very competent and knowledgeable, so that's a plus. And yeah, asking questions helps people clarify, as well as explaining out loud why you do things (draining, yes, but it works). Although for me, it's easier to ask questions and translate what they're saying into my language (Ti), than vice versa.

But yeah, Grayscale, I think a lot of people have a misconception that giving advice is "rude" or "pushy." Pft. Nonsense. Have at it! I'll listen, and take it all into consideration. As you said, I never respond negatively either. I may not -use- any of it, but heck... one step at a time

yes @ deep seated issues, it's cuz you guys detach emotionally usually. if you don't confront emotions head on some negative ones can fester and backfire in many different ways creating anger, denial, self absorption, resentment, indifference, etc

with ISTPs, I am guessing the big misunderstanding is that we experience the entire spectrum of emotion... when what we think is probably much simpler, much more practical than that, so much so that few people would guess it.

He's not avoiding the issues - he's simply not burdening other people with his problems. Everyone's life is already hard enough without having to saddle them with your own baggage. Why not just work it out in your own head?

I'll second those responses... cuz I really don't know how else to respond to that

 

[Grayscale]

You want my ideas? I would like to help but I can't. The problem is I don't know enough at this point to be of any use. I don't know the issues. I would have to spend time reading through all of the material. That is time I don't have. It's a choice between earning a living or being out on the street. Not a hard choice. I have to meet my expenses and pay my debts. My business is the reason I took on some much debt in the first place.

It's all good thanks anyways. good luck with your finances!

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

You want my ideas? I would like to help but I can't. The problem is I don't know enough at this point to be of any use. I don't know the issues. I would have to spend time reading through all of the material. That is time I don't have. It's a choice between earning a living or being out on the street. Not a hard choice. I have to meet my expenses and pay my debts. My business is the reason I took on some much debt in the first place.

Honestly, from the various posts I've read of yours I have no clue as to what half the stuff you're talking about. You're almost on the verge of Victorness. Or...I'm drunk. If that's the case, then forget this post ever happened because I probably already do.

 

[ViCyniC]

I probably have very little ego. But I view ego as an external thing...something you "show off". I probably have a lot of pride, though, which I view as more of an internal thing. And not all of it is good, or even healthy. But that's me.