American Culture

[substitute]

there's an old joke been floating around the UK for decades: what's the difference between a pot of yoghurt and the USA? - If you leave a pot of yoghurt out for 400 years, it'll develop a culture

 

[Night]

there's an old joke been floating around the UK for decades: what's the difference between a pot of yoghurt and the USA? - If you leave a pot of yoghurt out for 400 years, it'll develop a culture

What the hell is "yoghurt"?

 

[01011010]

Also, a general ignorance and disinterest in there wherabouts even, let alone the languages and cultures of the non-English speaking world.

This one is quite sad. I've never met a European that speaks less than 3 languages. The only people that seem to speak that many languages in America are educated immigrants, scholars, and globe trotters.

 

[Edgar]

there's an old joke been floating around the UK for decades: what's the difference between a pot of yoghurt and the USA? - If you leave a pot of yoghurt out for 400 years, it'll develop a culture

"Yoghurt" also doesn't help when the Nazis come a-knocking.

 

[Edgar]

Extremely rude in comparison. I think someone mentioned Japan seemed like a nation of INFJs, due to overt politeness and meticulous hygiene.

Yes, aside from that whole crotch hair thing.

This one is quite sad. I've never met a European that speaks less than 3 languages. The only people that seem to speak that many languages in America are educated immigrants, scholars, and globe trotters.

Well in Europe you can't travel 100 miles without hitting another country. Here in America, some people commute 100 miles to work. So geography plays a part. Also, English is de facto esperanto of the 21st century, so the need to learn foreign languages for English speakers is not that pressing... except maybe for those living in the Southwest USA, but they are getting pretty handy with Spanish.

 

[Thalassa]

Ever been inside one?? Most of the people don't seem too happy about being drugged up with lithium and shizz, and being stuck there and then forcibly drugged up seems to make them feel shittier than they did before the dude stuck them in the arm.

Actually mental illness runs in my family and one of my sisters is schizoaffective. Psychiatric hospitals have saved her life on more than one occasion. Your opinion of the psychiatric community seems immature and pedestrian. Either that, or perhaps you suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder and therefore pathologically avoid all treatment. I highly doubt that you have any real experience with the phenomenon, however, because of your faulty comment about "dude" sticking things in people's arms, which is a Hollywood stereotype and realistically doesn't happen much anymore in real psychiatric hospitals. Schizophrenics also don't take lithium - that's bipolar disorder.

 

[Athenian200]

Not unique and not uh, not shared with general Western Europe. UK for example: Saxon, Viking, Celtic, Roman, just about every other European ethnicity has been involved in its making and population (not to mention the contact with "Saracens" during the Crusades and the huge influence it had on philosophy, architecture and other aspects of the culture) and in more recent, modern times, massive influxes of Asians, Caribbeans and Africans, too, which is ongoing. Most British cities (and French too) have whole regions where you can barely find a shop front or passer by that can tell you anything in English. There are those who say that's a bad thing, though I love, embrace and welcome it.

Ooh. So that's not even unique. Interesting.

Looking from the outside here, I'd say what stands out to me as being different to Europe is the intensity and ubiquity of the patriotism you got going on over there, first off.

It can be pretty creepy at times. Do you know that I've been called Un-American by some people just because I was caught drinking a tea other than ice tea? And let's not forget the people who complain about having to buy anything not made in the US (not just Chinese, I mean any other country) because they believe it must be of inferior quality if it wasn't made by Americans.

There are also people who will really make a scene if you suggest that capitalism and our form of democracy are anything less than perfect, even under circumstances where their shortcomings are glaringly apparent (which is ironic, considering that one of our ideals is supposed to be the freedom to question things).

Also, a general ignorance and disinterest in the wherabouts even, let alone the languages and cultures of the non-English speaking world.

Oh my. That's actually a cultural trait? I had dismissed it as an example of backwardness and uneducated behavior that needed to be improved.

It does explain why I'm constantly having to explain to people around me that capitalism wasn't "invented" in America, that several of our ideals were influenced by Enlightenment thought, certain elements of 18th century British culture, as well as ancient Greek and Roman ideas. Often they continue to insist that certain things are uniquely American when they aren't.

The worst is when they accuse me of being unpatriotic for pointing out such facts. Now I just keep my mouth shut (except on here), I don't want to anger those people.

And unashamed capitalism - sure it's as rampant as anything else in the UK and perhaps Germany (less so in those countries that have Mediterranean coastline, in my observation), but there's a sense of "filthiness" and guilt about it still that I don't see in American culture, where it's praised and encouraged.

Not only that, you can actually be ridiculed for doing anything other than praising capitalism. One of the biggest problems with it that I've experienced first hand, is that it can be very, very difficult for someone to hone their skills initially if people are primarily looking for those that have already proven themselves. It works well when the labor pool is smaller, but can be grossly unfair when it's larger. It's also very hard on skilled people who don't tend to be competitive or pushy by nature.

And the idea of never having to get out of your car or actually be outdoors in the open air if you can help it ... heheh... at least that's the impression I get when I visit my sisters in NC!

Oh my, don't get me started on that one. I don't have a driver's license, and it's very hard to get around without a car. To some extent I'm even looked down on for being afraid to drive. I really don't get what's so great about driving a car, though. It seems wasteful and unnecessary, especially to design cities around having the things.

I've heard that in cities like New York, though, they rely more on public transportation. So it's not like that everywhere, thankfully.

I'm sorry that I can only think of things that are bad to my mind, off the cuff... I'll come back later if I can think of more positive things... though one positive thing that always leaps to my mind about American culture is Mark Twain - and rock n roll, of course!

Oh, don't feel bad, I have trouble thinking of good things myself at times. Thanks for helping me note some things I normally dismissed as annoyances rather than seeing them as part of our culture.

Ultimately, what I do like about America, is that we have more wealth, and more job and education opportunities overall than many other countries. We also have a lot of volunteers and social programs to help the less fortunate. That's what really keeps me from disliking us... I mean, at least we've got opportunity and compassion. That makes up for everything else, I suppose.

there's an old joke been floating around the UK for decades: what's the difference between a pot of yoghurt and the USA? - If you leave a pot of yoghurt out for 400 years, it'll develop a culture

So, it sounds like you people have noticed the lack of distinctive culture as well? I guess that means there might be something to it.

 

[Thalassa]

It can be pretty creepy at times. Do you know that I've been called Un-American by some people just because I was caught drinking a tea other than ice tea? And let's not forget the people who complain about having to buy anything not made in the US (not just Chinese, I mean any other...

However, this used to be very common in England back in the day - the intense nationalism - and it also still exists in many non-Western countries. So the patriotism isn't necessarily unique to America. Lord knows the Nazis made good use of it in Germany as well.

Ultimately, what I do like about America, is that we have more wealth, and more job and education opportunities overall than many other countries. We also have a lot of volunteers and social programs to help the less fortunate. That's what really keeps me from disliking us... I mean, at least we've got opportunity and compassion. That makes up for everything else, I suppose.

Yes we have more wealth, and perhaps more job opportunities. We do not necessarily have more educational opportunities, and countries like England and Canada have much stronger social programs.

 

[Athenian200]

However, this used to be very common in England back in the day - the intense nationalism - and it also still exists in many non-Western countries. So the patriotism isn't necessarily unique to America. Lord knows the Nazis made good use of it in Germany as well.

That's true. I've actually heard that patriotism is a tendency in human nature. That is, tending to mostly see the good in one's own larger group.

Yes we have more wealth, and perhaps more job opportunities. We do not necessarily have more educational opportunities, and countries like England and Canada have much stronger social programs.

Hmm... well, I think we still have stronger social programs than many non-Western countries, even if we're behind England and Canada in that department. That's something, at least.

We don't have more educational opportunities? I kind of got the impression that we had the best colleges and universities.

Well, if job opportunities and wealth are the only ones, then I guess I'm only here for the money and opportunity... not loyalty, pride, or anything like that.

Not surprising, really. I've heard it's an ESTx culture...

 

[Thalassa]

That's true. I've actually heard that patriotism is a tendency in human nature. That is, tending to mostly see the good in one's own larger group.




Hmm... well, I think we still have stronger social programs than many non-Western countries, even if we're behind England and Canada in that department. That's something, at least.

We don't have more educational opportunities? I kind of got the impression that we had the best colleges and universities.

Not necessarily, no. I stated this once before in this thread that yes, of course, the United States is a wonderful, wonderful place compared to third world countries. I'd rather be in the US than probably 85% of the world.

On the other hand, I think there's a logical fallacy in comparing this country to those poorer or more oppressive cultures, and the real contrast should be made between the US and Canada, Western Europe, and Japan. In comparison to those countries, our educational system sucks. We're also pretty much the least developed with what I see as our sense of cohesive society i.e. using social programs for the greater good of all . Pretty much all Western European countries are superior in this regard, and Japan is different but still has much more of a cultural mindset of having things be good for the group or society as a whole.

 

[Haphazard]

Have you ever really listened to American composers? I mean, really really listened to them?

We do too have culture, in the cultured sense. You just can't tell because it's used as the "beef, it's what for dinner" song.

 

[Haphazard]

Not necessarily, no. I stated this once before in this thread that yes, of course, the United States is a wonderful, wonderful place compared to third world countries. I'd rather be in the US than probably 85% of the world.

On the other hand, I think there's a logical fallacy in comparing this country to those poorer or more oppressive cultures, and the real contrast should be made between the US and Canada, Western Europe, and Japan.

The reason why we compare it to third world countries instead of Canada, Western Europe, and Japan is because most of the people who come here are from these third world countries instead of these other places.

America, for the most part, doesn't believe in more cohesive society. We're too regional for that. It's the same with the educational system. Places that feel the need to keep up their educational system will keep it up. However, we're not going to do it for the people in the state (or even county) next door unless it's a natural disaster. The American sense of community is very small and very personal.

 

[Thalassa]

The reason why we compare it to third world countries instead of Canada, Western Europe, and Japan is because most of the people who come here are from these third world countries instead of these other places.

America, for the most part, doesn't believe in more cohesive society. We're too regional for that. It's the same with the educational system. Places that feel the need to keep up their educational system will keep it up. However, we're not going to do it for the people in the state (or even county) next door unless it's a natural disaster. The American sense of community is very small and very personal.

I see your point, and even agree. But the greater concern should fall with 1st world nations because that is who we are largely working with - and competing against - particularly with this whole mindset some people have a global American hegemony.

I like individualism of the United States, but taken to extremes it's foolishly short-sighted.

 

[Edgar]

Have you ever really listened to American composers? I mean, really really listened to them?

We do too have culture, in the cultured sense. You just can't tell because it's used as the "beef, it's what for dinner" song.

Aside from "beef, it's what for dinner" song, I'd say George Gershwin had a few nice tunes. I also like Bernard Herrman.

And those were the "classically trained" composers. I'm guessing the whole jazz and rock and roll thing has to count for something too.

 

[Haphazard]

I see your point, and even agree. But the greater concern should fall with 1st world nations because that is who we are largely working with - and competing against - particularly with this whole mindset some people have a global American hegemony.

I like individualism of the United States, but taken to extremes it's foolishly short-sighted.

But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!

 

[Thalassa]

But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!

Yes, exactly, and that's wonderful. But it's also only partly true. As early as the 19th century the United States was invading Cuba, the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska with decided imperialism. Not as "small community" as the romantic Americana pushers want to paint.

Then again, this is the 21st century. That type of living became less and less realistic during and after World War I. That was almost 100 years ago.

I mean, I like small community. I think having a sense of community is very important, and it's actually dying out in this country in predominant American cities like New York, L.A., etc. So the "culture" we're sending to the world at large isn't small community at all - most people see the US as New York or L.A.

I'm all for grass roots and buying local. I do appreciate American culture in that sense. I'm a Clinton-type democrat.

 

[Athenian200]

But small community is a part of our culture. Fuck, that is our culture. When settlers came to America, transportation was suck. When they moved out west, transportation was suck. You learned to care about your little homestead and the little nearby town and that was your world, even if you had come there from out east or the Far East or the West or anything. And you stuck together so hard because the snow drifts were coming in winter and you were alone with your family and that little town.

I found it! I found American culture! It's there! Hallelujah!

Oh my goodness. I think you're right.

That explains why it's been so hard for me to "break out," of that little existence, because there's nothing "out there" to go into. It really feels like I'm expected to just be satisfied with my little family and my little job (if I could only find one), and being stuck in the same location with the same ties. There's also this frustrating tendency my mom told me about for people to only associate with people after they've been consistently on the same routine for a long time. Which is hard on me because I'm not currently very motivated to stay on a routine (nor do I really find it feasible at this point, since I can't base it on any necessity) or focus on "doing things."

And yet, I'm scared to do anything else, because I know that's "normal." Huh.

So that's American culture... this ineffable thing and way of being I've been trying and failing to transcend this whole time.

Interesting.

 

[Haphazard]

Yes, exactly, and that's wonderful. But it's also only partly true. As early as the 19th century the United States was invading Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska with decided imperialism. Not as "small community" as the romantic Americana pushers want to paint.

Then again, this is the 21st century. That type of living became less and less realistic during and after World War I. That was almost 100 years ago.

I mean, I like small community. I think having a sense of community is very important, and it's actually dying out in this country in predominant American cities like New York, L.A., etc. So the "culture" we're sending to the world at large isn't small community at all - most people see the US as New York or L.A.

I'm all for grass roots and buying local. I do appreciate American culture in that sense. I'm a Clinton-type democrat.

Even if the 'small community' is gone doesn't mean the mindset is gone. The city I live in is still very 'small community' even if it is a big city. You've got your part of county and everybody knows what each side means about you and on and on. Seriously. It's not a big city, even, it's a collection of small communities, if you think about it that way.

How many other cities are like this? I don't know, I guess I haven't analyzed them as much, but I can't think of mine as the only one like this.

I guess in that way we're kind of backwards. It's local, unique events and festivals in each suburb being supported by huge conglomerations.

 

[Haphazard]

Oh my goodness. I think you're right.

That explains why it's been so hard for me to "break out," of that little existence. It really feels like I'm expected to just be satisfied with my little family and my little job, and being stuck in the same location with the same ties. There's also this frustrating tendency my mom told me about for people to only associate with people after they've been consistently on the same routine for a long time. Which is hard on me because I'm not currently very motivated to stay on a routine (nor do I really find it feasible at this point, since I can't base it on any necessity) or focus on "doing things."

And yet, I'm scared to do anything else, because I know that's "normal." Huh.

So that's American culture... this ineffable thing and way of being I've been trying and failing to transcend this whole time.

Interesting.

No no no, that's wrong.

It's also integral to American culture that newcomers to the small community be welcomed instead of shunned as outsiders. You're able and allowed to be mobile, it's just that you get a different community when you go somewhere else.

 

[Oom]

Aside from "beef, it's what for dinner" song, I'd say George Gershwin had a few nice tunes. I also like Bernard Herrman.

And those were the "classically trained" composers. I'm guessing the whole jazz and rock and roll thing has to count for something too.

Don't forget the blues too.