[NT] ENTP's and INTP's

[simulatedworld]

^ Good thing you're not me, though. Then I'd be an INTP and that would probably suck even more than being an ENTP does.

 

[Nighthawk]

One of my best friends is an ENTP. We get along very well. I learned a lot from him about being more outgoing and making things happen. He has great follow-through for a P preference type. We used to bounce ideas off each other a lot and synthesize them into something workable. Of the pair of us, he was more big picture and I was more detail oriented ... even though among most people I am hardly detail oriented. Sadly he moved to another state a few years ago. I still miss him.

 

[brilliantwomble]

I worked with two ENTP guys. I actually didn't know when I first started working with them (I didn't really find out until quite a while later actually) that they were ENTP, but we hit it off immediately. Our boss was an ISFJ and really couldn't stand the lot of us and to be honest we got very little done (our jobs involved desk work and housekeeping, it was at a college), but we had a lot of really good discussions on just about anything. That was what I liked about both of them was just that any topic of discussion was open and there was never any difficulty starting or maintaining a conversation.

One of the guys in particular was pretty misunderstood by my other friends and just other people in general. They thought he was really weird and he was, but he understood me which is an odd feeling. He also didn't pay much attention to most people--he tried to talk to some of my friends for even maybe five minutes and failed, but as soon as I came along we could talk for hours it seemed about nothing and yet everything. So I just came to realize there was something there my other friends just couldn't see. None of my other friends were NTs mostly SFs and NFs.

But anyway, I don't know if I learned anything from either of them per se at least not a take home lesson, but I thought they were both cool guys in their own way. Neither one of them were particularly extraverted, but they were definitely ENTPs. I was clearly more introverted than either one of them, but in a conversation an outsider would have never known.

 

[Fluffywolf]

^ Good thing you're not me, though. Then I'd be an INTP and that would probably suck even more than being an ENTP does.

Hardly, I don't need to make up excuses about other people in order to flower up my own existance.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hardly, I don't need to make up excuses about other people in order to flower up my own existance.

Yes you do; you just don't say them out loud the way ENTPs do.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Yes you do; you just don't say them out loud the way ENTPs do.

I wonder if this is just your general view towards INTP's or if you have something in particular against me personally. Either way, believe whatever you want. You sure seem to need it.

 

[Qre:us]

^ Good thing you're not me, though. Then I'd be an INTP and that would probably suck even more than being an ENTP does.

Hardly, I don't need to make up excuses about other people in order to flower up my own existance.

Yes you do; you just don't say them out loud the way ENTPs do.

I wonder if this is just your general view towards INTP's or if you have something in particular against me personally. Either way, believe whatever you want. You sure seem to need it.

One thing INTPs can learn from ENTPs; picking up cues of when they're (and their Ti is) being needled by an ENTP for his/her own rascally amusement. Ne+Fe is mischievious.

 

[Fluffywolf]

One thing INTPs can learn from ENTPs; picking up cues of when they're (and their Ti is) being needled by an ENTP for his/her own rascally amusement. Ne+Fe is mischievious.

So basicly you're saying we shouldn't take you seriously and place you in that little ignore corner, leaving you to your solitary sobbing?

(This is for my amusement as well, we're just much more subtle. )

 

[Qre:us]

So basicly you're saying we shouldn't take you seriously and place you in that little ignore corner,

How is this any different, and specific to ENTPs, from how INTPs treat humanity in general?

(This is for my amusement as well, we're just much more subtle. )

Yeah, yeah, backtrack, deny all ya want:

I wonder if this is just your general view towards INTP's or if you have something in particular against me personally. Either way, believe whatever you want. You sure seem to need it.

 

[Spamtar]

So basicly you're saying we shouldn't take you seriously and place you in that little ignore corner, leaving you to your solitary sobbing?

(This is for my amusement as well, we're just much more subtle. )

lol, We do love our subtleties, it often goes over most everyone’s heads (except most INTJs if not instantly as an afterthought), yet most of the S's consciously notice the additional sparkle in our eyes and light smirk when this happens...

 

[Fluffywolf]

How is this any different, and specific to ENTPs, from how INTPs treat humanity in general?

Well, contrary to popular belief. We are capable of respecting people for who they are, however, this quickly changes if they insult our methods (without fair arguementation).

 

[Qre:us]

Well, contrary to popular belief.

That was MY belief! So...you think I'm popular, eh? Awww...shucks!

THANK YOU!

We are capable of respecting people for who they are, however, this quickly changes if they insult our methods.

Ohhh, go on, stop pulling my leg. Have you ever NOT confused a human being with a potted plant? [rhetorical]/subtlety

(without fair arguementation).

How does one even objectively evaluate 'fair'? Either way, all is fair in love and war.

 

[Fluffywolf]

That was MY belief! So...you think I'm popular, eh? Awww...shucks!

THANK YOU!



Ohhh, go on, stop pulling my leg. Have you ever NOT confused a human being with a potted plant?

Ah yes! It is true we respect plants and other life forms incapable of unintelligent speech more.

Without fair arguementation meant to be condemning or refuting someones way of life without bothering trying to understand it. For your information, Simulated had a problem with me, but I had no problem with him other than the fact he had a problem with me.

 

[Qre:us]

Ah yes! It is true we respect plants and other life forms incapable of unintelligent speech more.

"Incapable of unintelligent speech more".........ah, sweet, sweet, irony, I bathe in your flavour.

Without fair arguementation meant to be condemning or refuting someones way of life without bothering trying to understand it. For your information, Simulated had a problem with me, but I had no problem with him other than the fact he had a problem with me.

 

[Fluffywolf]

"Incapable of unintelligent speech more".........ah, sweet, sweet, irony, I bathe in your flavour.

No speech is not unintelligent speech.

 

[EcK]

No speech is not unintelligent speech.

Righhtt..
that doesn't make any sense, I hope you realise that.

intelligence is socially defined through communication and so speech what you say only would work if intelligence was some sort of an absolute.

classic intp

 

[JocktheMotie]

Righhtt..
that doesn't make any sense, I hope you realise that.

intelligence is socially defined through communication and so speech what you say only would work if intelligence was some sort of an absolute.

classic intp

Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.

 

[EcK]

Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.

(hello friend!)
yeah but then you still get into the previous wall, meaning it's all socially defined to begin with.

Your idea is a simili of those experiments in developmental psychology when young children don't have a well defined idea of the object permanence.
Taking it out of the equation doesn't make it less real.

 

[INTPness]

You're apparently one of the few INTPs who doesn't have his head too far up his ass to recognize the wealth of things he can learn from ENTPs, so congrats on that.

You're right, we do make a lot of the things you do seem cooler because we have better command of Ne and thus can connect the ideas to the external world more effectively.

My best friend since 7th grade is an INTP and I try to pick up clues on how to better utilize Ti from him. He sometimes uses me as an example for better Ne, but largely just doesn't even understand the value in Ne and would rather hide away in Ti-land until the cows come home.

I think this is representative of a broader trend of INTPs failing to recognize that any process other than Ti ever has any value.

In truth, ENTP and INTP can teach each other more than any other type because they are just two sides of the same person. Each should study the other in order to learn his auxiliary function more effectively.

But don't try and tell that to INTPs--to them we're just the loud flighty inconsistent version of themselves who talks too much. They see the decreased precision created by weaker Ti, but somehow completely miss the vastly improved abstract connectivity allowed by stronger Ne! My INTP friend does recognize that I'm better at certain things than he is, but I find it very difficult to explain them to him because he refuses to accept any explanation that can't be translated directly into Ti terms, which is horribly limiting. As Einstein (ironically himself an INTP) pointed out:

No problem can be solved from the level of consciousness which created it.

If most INTPs really understood Ne on anywhere the level that we do (or even acknowledged its fucking value in the first place!), they'd pay a lot more attention to our techniques, and thus would be able to improve upon their chronic social awkwardness and self-defeating tendencies. (Let me guess--"BUT WHAT LOGICAL REASON IS THERE FOR ME TO TRY THAT??")
Unfortunately most INTPs are so good at Ti-ing their way out of whatever problem they want until they short circuit themselves into believing it's not even a problem, many don't even recognize the potential value in these changes. Makes me rather frustrated with you at times.

I think mainly you overvalue Ti to such absurd proportions that you shy away from your auxiliary Ne because you're NEVER willing to sacrifice precision for broader abstract connectivity, and it's very silly at times. Logical precision is not always priority #1, just in case you hadn't heard. :hi:

As an INTP, I have to say that this post is pretty spot on - at least for me(especially the bolded part). It does seem like you say it in a negative/condescending way, but either way it resonates with me. I have to admit that I rely so heavily on Ti - and when I run into problems, I escape to Ti-land. So, I think you're are right on in the fact that the 2 types have so much to learn from each other. I sometimes think if I could just get my Ne working like my ENTP friends, it would open up a whole new world of opportunities and I'd be able to implement the things I want to implement much more fluidly.

I think what you overlook here though - at least for me (can't speak for all INTP's) - is that I try very hard to evaluate what ENTP's are doing. It's not that I don't WANT to learn their Ne techniques - I very much do. It's more like it just doesn't come to me. Try as I might, I often feel stuck within the confines of who I am - Ti comes first, Ne is a distant second. Would I like to have Ti and Ne be equal partners? YES!!! Can I just watch a few ENTP's in action and suddenly flip a switch and have my Ne work as effectively as yours? I'm not so sure.

Flip it around and pretend for a moment that you very much desired a very strong Ti. You wanted more Ti and less Ne. Would you be able to just change like that? Or would something feel "off" inside of you - like you weren't being yourself? We all know what it feels like to try to fit into ESTJ-land and its not fun. The same goes for trying to diffuse our primary Ti - or trying to bolster our weaker Ne into the superhero that it naturally is not. It's difficult. It's not just a matter of "obersving a few ENTP's" and life is a cakewalk from there. By nature, we are wired to have Ti first.

 

[Qre:us]

Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.

You're not very smart, then, are you?