[SP] Salamander SPs!

[stellar renegade]

This is a quote from Please Understand Me II (by Keirsey):

The Renaissance physician Paracelsus likened the Artisan type to the Salamander. Paracelsus' Salamander is a mythical, lizard-like creature, believed capable of changing color to blend in with its surroundings. Thus Paracelsus regarded the Artisan as a changeable or inconstant person, and indeed they are capable of mimicking anyone they approach, often convincing others that they are just like them. Perhaps it is this capacity to change themselves to resemble the other that makes Artisans such good actors. Also it may be that this changeability explains their disinterest in their own identity, something their opposite, the Idealist, cannot comfortably exist without. For Artisans, "all the world's a stage" and they the players, taking on part after part, now hero, now villain, with equal facility and equal delight. So the guiding spirit of the Artisan is the mythical Salamander, whispering in the Artisan's ear what part is best played at any given moment in any given context.

haha, this is so me!

I usually don't know what to think about myself or what I feel or who I really am. I might adopt the viewpoint of those around me or at least pretend to. I like to either play with peoples' impressions of me or just go along with them for the heck of it for entertainment purposes.

Anyway, what that passage immediately made me think of was last night at work when I passed a hispanic lady and rattled off some spanish with a perfect accent and everything, basically greeting her and asking her how she was doing, and within the same second finding myself face-to-face with a few of the remodel team, some hip-hop types and I was like "sup" in an ultra cool tone of voice and fist-bumped.

Not only do I have the ability to switch between modes of communication, but it exhiliarates me.

I can switch between groups of people in the blink of an eye and have them all going. Cracking jokes with my friends and the next instant get a whole gaggle of hispanic women loudly laughing with me and oooh-ing over my dancing.

"Mucho caliente!"

 

[Quinlan]

I relate to that, when I'm interacting with someone I'll often "show" them the side of myself I think they'll like the most, and hold back other sides, not conciously of course it just happens.

I see different parts of myself that I think relate to the other temperaments, they're quite strong and conflict sometimes.

 

[stellar renegade]

I relate to that, when I'm interacting with someone I'll often "show" them the side of myself I think they'll like the most, and hold back other sides, not conciously of course it just happens.

Yep.

I see different parts of myself that I think relate to the other temperaments, they're quite strong and conflict sometimes.

Wow! So that's why that happens...

 

[Halla74]

This is a quote from Please Understand Me II (by Keirsey):

I have never read this book, and love it when people here quote it. Thank you for this, especially as I am an "Atisan."

haha, this is so me!

Of course you are happy! You are of the Uber-type!

I usually don't know what to think about myself or what I feel or who I really am.

Maybe you are so sure of yourself and happy with yourself, that you need you don't need to think about it? Maybe you are OK with existing as you are? Must you question that? I do not. Seriously. It is our innate gift.

I might adopt the viewpoint of those around me or at least pretend to.

The first step to successfully communicating with others, wheteher for purposes of PROMOTING or just for casual DIALOG, is to get your target audience to identify with you in some way. When youknow nothing of someone approach, but deem necessary to communicate with, the first things that you have an opportunity to establish common ground with them are the obvious. At the very least, doing as such allows them to disarm any PRECONCEPTIONS/STEREOTYPES of you that they might have, and allows for an open and civil dialog to ensue.

I like to either play with peoples' impressions of me or just go along with them for the heck of it for entertainment purposes.

Agreed. This is when listening yields much fruit. It is one of the few times I am able to "shut up."

Anyway, what that passage immediately made me think of was last night at work when I passed a hispanic lady and rattled off some spanish with a perfect accent and everything, basically greeting her and asking her how she was doing, and within the same second finding myself face-to-face with a few of the remodel team, some hip-hop types and I was like "sup" in an ultra cool tone of voice and fist-bumped.

You are a new age man. You are a man of the people because you yourself are a person. You identify with yourself, but are also able to identify with others, as you are capable of sharing the human experience at even the most vicarious of levels. This is a gift, not a shortcoming.

Not only do I have the ability to switch between modes of communication, but it exhiliarates me.

JINX!!!

I can switch between groups of people in the blink of an eye and have them all going. Cracking jokes with my friends and the next instant get a whole gaggle of hispanic women loudly laughing with me and oooh-ing over my dancing.

"Mucho caliente!"

We are both ready to run for public office. I'd be happy to work on your campaign if you return the favor. Dude, I dance all the time, constantly, I hear music in my head all day long, I love it!

I relate to that, when I'm interacting with someone I'll often "show" them the side of myself I think they'll like the most, and hold back other sides, not conciously of course it just happens.

Agreed, Again I think this is the mark of a good communicator. Yeti are purportedly good at this.

I see parts of myself that I think relate to the other temperaments, they're quite strong and conflict sometimes.

Interesting! Please explain, I "no comprende."

that happens...

Habla? I no get it yet...

 

[Athenian200]

This is a quote from Please Understand Me II (by Keirsey):



haha, this is so me!

I usually don't know what to think about myself or what I feel or who I really am. I might adopt the viewpoint of those around me or at least pretend to. I like to either play with peoples' impressions of me or just go along with them for the heck of it for entertainment purposes.

Anyway, what that passage immediately made me think of was last night at work when I passed a hispanic lady and rattled off some spanish with a perfect accent and everything, basically greeting her and asking her how she was doing, and within the same second finding myself face-to-face with a few of the remodel team, some hip-hop types and I was like "sup" in an ultra cool tone of voice and fist-bumped.

Not only do I have the ability to switch between modes of communication, but it exhiliarates me.

I can switch between groups of people in the blink of an eye and have them all going. Cracking jokes with my friends and the next instant get a whole gaggle of hispanic women loudly laughing with me and oooh-ing over my dancing.

"Mucho caliente!"

Darn. I'd like to be able to do that. I mean, I already do show people the side of myself I think will be most interesting to them, but I only have three sides to choose from... compliant/formal (Corporate persona), intellectual/nerd (Hacker persona), and normal (Unmasked). Wish I could develop a little more variety.

 

[Quinlan]

Interesting! Please explain, I "no comprende."

It's just that there are times when I feel very much like one of the other temperaments, for instance I will be drawn to an SJ kind of desire for security and structure yet at the same time desire freedom and risk. There are parts of each of the temperaments that I really identify with and think "that's me!" everything is so situational though, context is so important. I'm sure everyone feels like this to some extent but I'm wondering if this fluidity and mimicry of the others is more common for SPs.

 

[Halla74]

...for instance I will be drawn to an SJ kind of desire for security and structure yet at the same time desire freedom and risk. There are parts of each of the temperaments that I really identify with and think "that's me!" everything is so situational though, context is so important.

Brilliant clarification, thank you for taking the time to crank that out. Yes, I understand exactly what you mean, and totally have experienced the same phenomena in my own life several times. For instance, I am really sensitive about my environment when I need to study, compose music, or when working on any project (e.g. my recent deck painting as depicted in my blog). I take my work seriously, whether its occupational, school, or personal, and I NEED a clean/organized environment to operate in. So, my first step before doing any major undertaking is to clean the work area up, and make it tiday.

What happens next? Well, I destroy it of course in the midst of creating my masterpiece! Papers everywhere, books all over, paint supplies in a huge pile on the ground of the deck below. The music projects are the cleanest because much of what3 I do is in my computer, so when I close the song down, VOILA! all is done, and when I oopen it again everything is right where I left it...THANK GOD!!!

BUT - This is my effort to CHANNEL an SJs capbility to create order. An SJ most likely knows where everything is, all the time. I know what Ziploc bag something is in, and that its in 1 of 3 big tupperware boxes stacked together. That's good enough for me.

I guess I channel NT thoughts too when I am programming or doing analytical design. Leading the meetings is all SP, but it is necessary to have an "NT layer" going on subliminally, to filter the thoughts coming from my brain before they go out of mout to make sure aI'm leading the clients astray technically; and on the way in too, I have to take their thoughts/ideas, run them through my NT sub-layer, and then pass it through to my working construct of the project solution if good, or spit it out refined to them if it ihas a logical fault.

I'm sure everyone feels like this to some extent but I'm wondering if this fluidity and mimicry of the others is more common for SPs.

I think you are right on both counts. We all have to get into the shoes of others to accomplish the empathy needed to be considerate, or to be able to think on as many levels necessary to achieve what me must do/want to do.

I also think that it's most likely easier for us SPs as we are "salamanders" as Kiersey noted, salamanders of action and salamanders of thought!

 

[wolfy]

That's really interesting and very true.

 

[Unique]

lol I love playing with personas

Also people who see me in different situations often are like "wtf I thought you were the quiet type?" or "you seem different right now"

Depends a lot on if I'm spending my energy on social interaction or savoring it

I often won't show the real me and try on different masks, SPs are able to get along with almost everyone if they want to

 

[stellar renegade]

I have never read this book, and love it when people here quote it. Thank you for this, especially as I am an "Atisan."

Oh, no prob, bob! If there's anything specific you want to know about, let me know, bro.

Of course you are happy! You are of the Uber-type!

Yep!

Maybe you are so sure of yourself and happy with yourself, that you need you don't need to think about it? Maybe you are OK with existing as you are? Must you question that? I do not. Seriously. It is our innate gift.

Yes, that's it. I'd forgotten that that was why. Thank you!

Thing is, I used to be REALLY philosophical. That's when I was tapping into the Martian (Idealist/Rational) brain. I did it so well I even fooled myself. I had some genius ideas, too.

But I think I used it all up, and pretty much crash-landed back down to earth, ya know? haha. I'm trying to ease into my own skin now so that I can safely access those thoughts without becoming something I'm totally not.

The first step to successfully communicating with others, wheteher for purposes of PROMOTING or just for casual DIALOG, is to get your target audience to identify with you in some way. When youknow nothing of someone approach, but deem necessary to communicate with, the first things that you have an opportunity to establish common ground with them are the obvious. At the very least, doing as such allows them to disarm any PRECONCEPTIONS/STEREOTYPES of you that they might have, and allows for an open and civil dialog to ensue.

True dat, man. You put it in such a way that it reveals the hidden virtue behind it. I really appreciate that, thanks.

Agreed. This is when listening yields much fruit. It is one of the few times I am able to "shut up."

Yeah, when I'm with a new group, I tend to be quieter than usual not because I'm shy but because I'm drinking in the group dynamics so that I can meld seamlessly into their style.

This last group of friends I did this with I had barely met before but after a day or two more of hanging out I had picked up their slang repertoire, references and style of jokes and was saying the same thing as them at the same time. I blended in so well they were continually in stitches over what I said and asked when I was planning on moving nearby! hah

You are a new age man. You are a man of the people because you yourself are a person. You identify with yourself, but are also able to identify with others, as you are capable of sharing the human experience at even the most vicarious of levels. This is a gift, not a shortcoming.

Ah, yes! This is my favorite thing you've said so far. Absolutely correct, my man. I understand where people are coming from. Couldn't have put it better myself. I guess I'd say that makes me less of a politician and more of a statesman.

Hm!

We are both ready to run for public office. I'd be happy to work on your campaign if you return the favor.

Let's do it! Maybe you could help me come up with campaign posters as clever as yours!

Dude, I dance all the time, constantly, I hear music in my head all day long, I love it!

Oh man, dancing is my thing. I'm constantly dancing too, no matter who's around. I've been told I'm very good at both that and singing. I want to rock the mic so bad.

I'm lovin' those salamander pics, man! Beautiful.

 

[SilkRoad]

I usually don't know what to think about myself or what I feel or who I really am. I might adopt the viewpoint of those around me or at least pretend to. I like to either play with peoples' impressions of me or just go along with them for the heck of it for entertainment purposes.

This is one of the things that worries/fascinates me about SPs (some SPs, anyway). From my perspective, this makes you...not sure how to put this...potentially untrustworthy. I mean, I am sure that like any other type, there are trustworthy SPs and untrustworthy SPs. But if you aren't interested in your own identity except as a fluid entity to get more fun/interest out of your relations with others, how does anyone ever know who "the real you" is? Or are all those different faces "the real you"?

I think it just especially worries me when an SP can express one opinion with me, and a completely different opinion with a different kind of person/friend, and be happy with that and not see any contradiction, or if they do, it doesn't bother them.

 

[stellar renegade]

Can't entirely help you out there. Halla might be better at that.

The best I can say is that it doesn't help to be too rigid. The same action can be completely different in different contexts, thus you can actually be a hypocrite by being too much the same all the time.

Another point to make is that sometimes you just gotta meet people where they are, be all things to all people and all that jazz. Alot of times I'll agree with someone just because I understand where they're coming from even though I don't have the same viewpoint. It helps them vent and feel encouraged so they don't feel like they have to suppress their feelings. It's kind of cathartic.

Some people might think I'm a hypocrite for getting drunk sometimes even though I'm a practicing Christian, but I don't really see the contradiction. I see it as more or less relative and think arbitrary, absolute standards are actually dangerous. Moderation, or at least not letting oneself be addicted to anything, is the key.

 

[Poki]

This is one of the things that worries/fascinates me about SPs (some SPs, anyway). From my perspective, this makes you...not sure how to put this...potentially untrustworthy. I mean, I am sure that like any other type, there are trustworthy SPs and untrustworthy SPs. But if you aren't interested in your own identity except as a fluid entity to get more fun/interest out of your relations with others, how does anyone ever know who "the real you" is? Or are all those different faces "the real you"?

I think it just especially worries me when an SP can express one opinion with me, and a completely different opinion with a different kind of person/friend, and be happy with that and not see any contradiction, or if they do, it doesn't bother them.

Its possible to see both sides of things logically and its even possible to think 2 different things because of one small difference that we may know about you. Remember that every situation is different. If one person likes doing something and someone else doesnt you may have the exact same situation and we will give 2 different responses.

 

[Halla74]

Can't entirely help you out there. Halla might be better at that.

The best I can say is that it doesn't help to be too rigid. The same action can be completely different in different contexts, thus you can actually be a hypocrite by being too much the same all the time.

Another point to make is that sometimes you just gotta meet people where they are, be all things to all people and all that jazz. Alot of times I'll agree with someone just because I understand where they're coming from even though I don't have the same viewpoint. It helps them vent and feel encouraged so they don't feel like they have to suppress their feelings. It's kind of cathartic.

Some people might think I'm a hypocrite for getting drunk sometimes even though I'm a practicing Christian, but I don't really see the contradiction. I see it as more or less relative and think arbitrary, absolute standards are actually dangerous. Moderation, or at least not letting oneself be addicted to anything, is the key.

I don't know that I can add to what you wrote above, I think it's well put.

I will offer the following. I am very well liked and regarded highly by those who know me. Friendships are very special to me and I go out of my way to help those that I call dear. Like everyone else, I am human, and there have been times when I have screwed up, some of the small and some of them huge. The bottom line is though that I make right whatever wrong I might have done. The reason I think this is relevant to the topic at hand is the following age old adage:

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

I am a man of action. Most ESTPs are. Although I often have alot to say about everything, when something needs to be done, I have the wherewithall and gumption to make it so. Why? Because I believe in doing the right things for the right reasons, and I also don't like my intentions to be questioned. The easiest way to lay such inquiries to rest is to point out your historical precedents, by calling attention to your actions that nullify any doubts about you. Life is not just about random acts of kindness, doing what you believe in, or setting an example because it is the right thing to do, it's about all of them, and I have found that when you consistetnly live as such, when the time comes for testimony of your character to be verified, it is very easy to do, and you do not have to utter a single word, and sometimes that says more than anything.

[GROUP 0:] Many do nothing, they let life happen around them.

[GROUP 1:] There are those that can. (Some)

[GROUP 2:] There are those that will. (Fewer)

[GROUP 3:] There are those that can AND will. (Few and far between)

I've always been a member of GROUP 3. Just because SPs are capable of social interaction in a highly successful manner does not mean they are insincere. I call bullshit on that line of thought, I've never liked the tone of it actually, it is condescending.

 

[Domino]

Do you have the little gripper toes too?

 

[Halla74]

Do you have the little gripper toes too?

Indeed. They come in handy when it is necessary clench a truly mighty pimp fist.

 

[ilovetrannies]

Halla74 is unique just like everyone else

Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
Can't entirely help you out there. Halla might be better at that.

The best I can say is that it doesn't help to be too rigid. The same action can be completely different in different contexts, thus you can actually be a hypocrite by being too much the same all the time.

Another point to make is that sometimes you just gotta meet people where they are, be all things to all people and all that jazz. Alot of times I'll agree with someone just because I understand where they're coming from even though I don't have the same viewpoint. It helps them vent and feel encouraged so they don't feel like they have to suppress their feelings. It's kind of cathartic.

Some people might think I'm a hypocrite for getting drunk sometimes even though I'm a practicing Christian, but I don't really see the contradiction. I see it as more or less relative and think arbitrary, absolute standards are actually dangerous. Moderation, or at least not letting oneself be addicted to anything, is the key.
I don't know that I can add to what you wrote above, I think it's well put.

I will offer the following. I am very well liked and regarded highly by those who know me. Friendships are very special to me and I go out of my way to help those that I call dear. Like everyone else, I am human, and there have been times when I have screwed up, some of the small and some of them huge. The bottom line is though that I make right whatever wrong I might have done. The reason I think this is relevant to the topic at hand is the following age old adage:

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

I am a man of action. Most ESTPs are. Although I often have alot to say about everything, when something needs to be done, I have the wherewithall and gumption to make it so. Why? Because I believe in doing the right things for the right reasons, and I also don't like my intentions to be questioned. The easiest way to lay such inquiries to rest is to point out your historical precedents, by calling attention to your actions that nullify any doubts about you. Life is not just about random acts of kindness, doing what you believe in, or setting an example because it is the right thing to do, it's about all of them, and I have found that when you consistetnly live as such, when the time comes for testimony of your character to be verified, it is very easy to do, and you do not have to utter a single word, and sometimes that says more than anything.

[GROUP 0:] Many do nothing, they let life happen around them.

[GROUP 1:] There are those that can. (Some)

[GROUP 2:] There are those that will. (Fewer)

[GROUP 3:] There are those that can AND will. (Few and far between)

I've always been a member of GROUP 3. Just because SPs are capable of social interaction in a highly successful manner does not mean they are insincere. I call bullshit on that line of thought, I've never liked the tone of it actually, it is condescending.
Halla74 is offline Add to Halla74's Reputation Report Post Reply With Quote -Halla74

I agree very much, I will try to look at everyone's own situation with the best of my ability with my own quiet judgement. And that SP's especially agree with the postmodernism philosophy. Yeah, so suck it, intuitives.

 

[Halla74]

I agree very much, I will try to look at everyone's own situation with the best of my ability with my own quiet judgement. And that SP's especially agree with the postmodernism philosophy. Yeah, so suck it, intuitives.

I do so love it when someone is able to use "suck it" in a response and it make sense. Holy shite, what a night! :yim_rolling_on_the_

Cheers, ILT!



-Halla

 

[ilovetrannies]

Thank you!

 

[wolfy]

This is one of the things that worries/fascinates me about SPs (some SPs, anyway). From my perspective, this makes you...not sure how to put this...potentially untrustworthy. I mean, I am sure that like any other type, there are trustworthy SPs and untrustworthy SPs. But if you aren't interested in your own identity except as a fluid entity to get more fun/interest out of your relations with others, how does anyone ever know who "the real you" is? Or are all those different faces "the real you"?

I think it just especially worries me when an SP can express one opinion with me, and a completely different opinion with a different kind of person/friend, and be happy with that and not see any contradiction, or if they do, it doesn't bother them.

I can see both sides of most everything. No matter how thin you slice it there's always two sides. There is no real you anyway, just the memory of what was.