[MBTI General] ESTP or ESFP?

[INTJMom]

Me again.

I realized I mis-judged my father. He is not an ENTP.

But now I am questioning whether he is more of an ESTP or ESFP?

What would be the major differences in a male?

 

[Wolf]

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

ESFPs genuinely believe they are helping/loving people. You can usually figure out which they are based on these, and also the number of sexual partners they've had - ESFPs will generally have about twice as many, provided everything else is equal, but they won't have gained much of anything from them, or at least they won't claim they did.

My dad is an ESTP and he constantly talks about things he did where he feels like he exploited someone or something. It's an unmistakable pattern that is common to all EXTPs, but particularly ESTPs.

 

[Totenkindly]

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

Oops. My ESFP son (and other ESFPs I know) can easily be hustlers. My son is only 11 and he has become a money-obsessed nut. Part of the problem is that it burns a hole in his pocket and he needs more money to make up for the money he wasted (high outflow demands high inflow for him; he would never THINK of curbing his spending habits!)

A few weeks ago, he insisted of peddling his junk at a community yardsale. While at a neighbor's sale, he saw a little stuffed dolphin for 25 cents. One of his girlfriends who lives up the street loves stuffed dolphins (she collects them) and he saw opportunity. So he bought it. Then he came home and CALLED her on the phone to tell her about it (rather than hoping she would notice, he created the opportunity for a sale), and convinced her to come down and buy the thing. He made $4 off the deal -- and she even knew what he had done! It was a 1500% markup (!).

He exploited the situation... without feeling bad about it. When we teased him about how he was willing to fleece his friends, he just laughed and said, "Well, she gave me the money."

Tell me again how ESFPs don't like to hustle?

The difference I think is that an ESTP can come off as a bastard when he hustles someone -- he tends to be more direct and hard and abrasive, even when he is being "slick." You know you're being worked over, even if you can't explain why, and at some level you might resent it because you know you are the "loser." The ESTP puts himself up by putting you down and conquering you.

ESFPs are much more likely to hustle people by truly winning them over. Even if you know their intentions, you still like them and do not feel nearly as much resentment, like there was a contest going on and you "lost." They're softer and more engaging on a personal level.

 

[Blackwater]

well based on the info you provided in the other thread he is almost certainly an estp.

esfp = boyish charms. tigger from winnie the pooh

estp = smooth operator. james bond

 

[anii]

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. Notice I didn't say they throw great parties. But if you are lucky enough for them to show up at yours, you will see what I mean. The other thing is, they are not comfortable with deep emotions. I think mine used to freak my mother out.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

My stereotypes would be:

ESTP - used car salesman
ESFP - entertainer, clown

 

[Blackwater]

INFP - Physiognomist

 

[quietgirl]

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. Notice I didn't say they throw great parties. But if you are lucky enough for them to show up at yours, you will see what I mean. The other thing is, they are not comfortable with deep emotions. I think mine used to freak my mother out.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe. My mother is VERY giving with the people she loves. She's been known to give my brother and I money if we're in a bind, REGARDLESS of whether or not she has it - which may be an indicator of how she doesn't exactly use Fe gracefully. She has selflessly taken care of my dying grandmother for the past couple years. Also, she has driven through a few states just to be there for me during a hard time. Again, a very extreme use of Fe, but it's there. She's just very bad with her OWN emotions - something I struggle with as well. I don't feel her eyes are "cold", but I don't think I notice that stuff as well as an INFP either.

The life of a party is tough because my mother tends to dominant a social situation, too. She can really sell herself, regardless of the situation. However, this is coming from an introvert...

 

[anii]

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe.

If that were the case, I would've typed IMJ.

Another stereotype...

ENTP - provocateur

 

[INTJMom]

In the other thread you mention he doesn't have a real job and hustles people. He's an ESTP.

ESFPs genuinely believe they are helping/loving people. You can usually figure out which they are based on these, and also the number of sexual partners they've had - ESFPs will generally have about twice as many, provided everything else is equal, but they won't have gained much of anything from them, or at least they won't claim they did.

My dad is an ESTP and he constantly talks about things he did where he feels like he exploited someone or something. It's an unmistakable pattern that is common to all EXTPs, but particularly ESTPs.

That's very convincing.

Oops. My ESFP son (and other ESFPs I know) can easily be hustlers. ...

The difference I think is that an ESTP can come off as a bastard when he hustles someone -- he tends to be more direct and hard and abrasive, even when he is being "slick." You know you're being worked over, even if you can't explain why, and at some level you might resent it because you know you are the "loser." The ESTP puts himself up by putting you down and conquering you.

ESFPs are much more likely to hustle people by truly winning them over. Even if you know their intentions, you still like them and do not feel nearly as much resentment, like there was a contest going on and you "lost." They're softer and more engaging on a personal level.

Thanks for muddying up the water, there Jennifer.
Seriously, thanks for that input.
I am still not sure.

well based on the info you provided in the other thread he is almost certainly an estp.

esfp = boyish charms. tigger from winnie the pooh

estp = smooth operator. james bond

You know he just may be Tigger after all.
I am so confused!!!

My mom was an ESFP - she was the life of any party.

For the other ESFPs I've known, the same thing goes. ...

When my father throws his annual party, he invites 300 people.

IMO the easiest way to tell the difference between T and F is in the eyes. Fs just have more warmth in them.

INFPs are better at that than I am.

Again, from experience, ESFPs like to make everyone around them comfortable and they do that by being bubbly and entertaining. Unlike ESTPs they don't entertain themselves at other people's expense; they want others to feel comfortable and be entertained as well.

THOSE are some powerful words.
My father does entertain himself at other people's expense.
It's practically his identity.

My stereotypes would be:

ESTP - used car salesman
ESFP - entertainer, clown

He does both. And of course, he is older. I'm trying to think of how he was when I was young.

INFP - Physiognomist

Hmm... are you trying to make me lose my mind?!

Be careful with the "warmth" judgement, though. ESTP's have a tertiary Fe. My mother is VERY giving with the people she loves. ...

The life of a party is tough because my mother tends to dominant a social situation, too. She can really sell herself, regardless of the situation. However, this is coming from an introvert...

My father is the life of the party. As a matter of fact, you better not steal the show!

I read that you are questioning the T/F...

One thing that makes it clear that my mother is a T, despite her charm (she oozes it) and charismatic way with people is her blunt, inability to consider anyone else's feelings when making decisions and even talking to people - UNLESS she wants something out of them, which is a whole 'nother story. Remember, the ESTP is your classic salesman. She does have an uncanny ability to seize the moment and manipulate the current situation to get what she wants.

Growing up, my mother was very prone to in the moment, insensitive outbursts that usually involved cutting words very directed at the target (occasionally, my brother (INFP) and I - imagine how hurt the two NF's were! ha!).

ESTP's are normally very people intelligent. My mother comes off as spacey, but if you ge beyond her Se dominant, she really does know exactly what she's doing.

I hope this doesn't paint a bad picture of her, as she's an amazing person and very kind to her family. But it should shed some light on the behavior of an ESTP.

That does sound like my father, but I don't want to jump to a conclusion ( even though I REALLY WANT to COME to a conclusion ).
Some of the F features sound like him, too.
And being his daughter, I know we can tend to mis-judge our parents because we're sometimes too close, as it were, to see clearly.

 

[INTJMom]

I was reading descriptions of the two on another site, and I think it's most likely that he is ESTP, but I don't want to close the book just yet. I would like to sort of verify it in my own mind first.

 

[FDG]

The ESFP is basically a better version of an ESTP.

 

[INTJMom]

My father has always been very blunt and sometimes mean with his words.
He insists on being the boss and not involving other people in making decisions.
My INFP sister thinks my father is an F, but I don't see it.

I would like to know how to tell the 2 types apart.

 

[Totenkindly]

My father has always been very blunt and sometimes mean with his words. He insists on being the boss and not involving other people in making decisions.

This sounds much more ESTP to me.

ESFPs generally are more open to people all the time and enjoy it when people are communicating. They still want to do what they want to do, but they like to interact and discuss the decision or justify themselves, compared to the ESTP who is much more autonomous and would rather stay detached and just do what he wants and not be weighted down by all the tedious people telling him what he can and cannot do.

(Basically, less words and more off "doing his thing" for the ESTP, and the ESFP is fine with more words and still will do his thing.)

An ESFP might be more mercurial in both good and bad ways, having more extreme "swings" of emotion. The ESTP seems to be a little more detached -- his highs will not be as high, his lows will not be as low, and he might be more apt to maintain a "slow burn or meanness" and hold longer grudges. Because his responses are not coming purely out of emotion like an ESFP but out of logical evaluation of people's motivations and behavior.

 

[INTJMom]

This sounds much more ESTP to me.

ESFPs generally are more open to people all the time and enjoy it when people are communicating. They still want to do what they want to do, but they like to interact and discuss the decision or justify themselves, compared to the ESTP who is much more autonomous and would rather stay detached and just do what he wants and not be weighted down by all the tedious people telling him what he can and cannot do.

(Basically, less words and more off "doing his thing" for the ESTP, and the ESFP is fine with more words and still will do his thing.)

An ESFP might be more mercurial in both good and bad ways, having more extreme "swings" of emotion. The ESTP seems to be a little more detached -- his highs will not be as high, his lows will not be as low, and he might be more apt to maintain a "slow burn or meanness" and hold longer grudges. Because his responses are not coming purely out of emotion like an ESFP but out of logical evaluation of people's motivations and behavior.

Thanks, Jennifer. That helps. He actually gets offended when people think he should consider what they want.

I'm going to watch for confirming evidence in the next few months.
I'm going to go with ESTP for now unless something happens to prove me wrong.
Hopefully this knowledge will help me in choosing his Christmas gift this year!

 

[quietgirl]

Thanks, Jennifer. That helps. He actually gets offended when people think he should consider what they want.

I'm going to watch for confirming evidence in the next few months.
I'm going to go with ESTP for now unless something happens to prove me wrong.
Hopefully this knowledge will help me in choosing his Christmas gift this year!

As strange as it may sound, my mother really likes personalized, well thought out Christmas gifts. However, I stay away from clothes because she'll return everything she doesn't like. But the best gift she said she ever got from me was a drawing with a quote that described our mother/daughter relationship perfectly. A possible ESTP I dated (I'm really not 100% sure unless someone takes the test) also really liked personalized gifts, but his mind would switch to the next moment so quickly that it would end up on the floor or otherwise discarded.

 

["?"]

Me again.

I realized I mis-judged my father. He is not an ENTP.

But now I am questioning whether he is more of an ESTP or ESFP?

I would like to hear some thoughts on the ETP differences. I would think that there is little or no comparison between ESP types, especially since he is male.

 

[INTJMom]

I would like to hear some thoughts on the ETP differences. I would think that there is little or no comparison between ESP types, especially since he is male.

There were a few given in this thread, but you're right, they do seem a little few and far between, and also a little hard to choose between.

 

["?"]

I must admit that I am a bit partial to the Best Fit type descriptions because they are uniquely written, not by an author, by interviewing people who have determined their best fit types. I would think that distinguishing ESFP from ESTP should be quite easy. Although the ENTP and ESFP may share the “Get Things Going” interaction style, ESTP will look more like ENTJ.

 

[INTJMom]

As strange as it may sound, my mother really likes personalized, well thought out Christmas gifts. However, I stay away from clothes because she'll return everything she doesn't like. But the best gift she said she ever got from me was a drawing with a quote that described our mother/daughter relationship perfectly. A possible ESTP I dated (I'm really not 100% sure unless someone takes the test) also really liked personalized gifts, but his mind would switch to the next moment so quickly that it would end up on the floor or otherwise discarded.

Funny you should say that.
One Christmas, after my father opened his present, he said the strangest thing:
"You know what this gift means?
...me staring back at him with deer in the headlights look...
It means that you know me."

 

[miss fortune]

The comment about ESFPs being great at parties but not being great at throwing parties is so right! My sister is an ESFP and once a year we throw a joint party with all of our friends- meaning about 3 people that I bother to invite (I consider most of the many people I know to be acquaintances) and she invites about 25. Note- this is to an apartment. I do most of the preparation work and talk to those who appear to feel left out- she keeps things going in a fun way and is there when I end up leaving my own apartment because I get tired of having so many people around! Not the most organized or forward thinking person I know- but she sure as hell is fun to be around!