Office Politics: Play or Pay

[Totenkindly]

When I transferred departments from my old one, they were the first ones to reach out to me and be nice to me. I didn't know anyone on my floor and they were the people closest to my age group. Individually they are very nice people; buying cards and decorating cubes for birthdays, sending out funny emails all day, very congenial.

Sigh. It would ALWAYS be much easier if the enemy was downright EVIL. When they're just human and very nice in some ways, it's hard to maintain a good burn.

.. Once we were sitting at lunch (with them) and she said "your boyfriend must not love you that much if he bought you cubic zirconia." The people who didn't laughed had the food drop out of their mouths. She's criticized my friend's clothes, hair, eating habits, relationship ("he should marry you after three years") and everyone just laughs along...

So basically, you know that she's not "just kidding around" because of the pervasiveness and consistency of her put-downs? Some people do have abrasive personalities and make jokes at other people's expense, without actually desiring to put the other person down (they are just clueless and do not know another good way to interact)... but it sounds like she has made a long-term, consistent assault on your friend through her criticism, and might have a particular tone in her voice and play out the conversation in such a way that you know she's just trying to belittle her?

(I am just asking.)

We're trying to figure out a way to deal with this problem. It's not as easy as it looks. None of what she's doing is outright harassment, it's very subtle. And she says things in such a joking manner and so covertly that you have to be smooth replying to her, so you don't look like you're overreacting.

Exactly. Those are the worst problems to deal with (to me), because if you get angry or make it in to a serious fight, YOU look like the villain, and they look like the poor innocent victim...

Lol! High school redux. Actually, we don't have crap like this in our high school. In my opinion, the biggest problem here is that if violence is used, then she'll get fired. Otherwise it would be over pretty quickly.

Hmm. Can you give us a location, PM, so that we can airdrop Niffer into the middle of this? I bet she could take care of them!

 

[563 740]

Y'all, this well is deep.

When I transferred departments from my old one, they were the first ones to reach out to me and be nice to me. I didn't know anyone on my floor and they were the people closest to my age group. Individually they are very nice people; buying cards and decorating cubes for birthdays, sending out funny emails all day, very congenial.

When you finally get comfortable and feel like you can strike out on your own is when the problems begin. I started hanging out more and more with one of them because I felt like we could bond. We would eat lunch together without them. Like I said, I'm not in that department but my friend is. They're very strategic, the alpha female wants to make my friends life miserable at work. Once we were sitting at lunch (with them) and she said "your boyfriend must not love you that much if he bought you cubic zirconia." The people who didn't laughed had the food drop out of their mouths. She's criticized my friend's clothes, hair, eating habits, relationship ("he should marry you after three years") and everyone just laughs along. I'm surprised at the one who got away because I always thought she was a very high ranking official.

We're trying to figure out a way to deal with this problem. It's not as easy as it looks. None of what she's doing is outright harassment, it's very subtle. And she says things in such a joking manner and so covertly that you have to be smooth replying to her, so you don't look like you're overreacting.

Jesus Christ, it's like Office Space meets Mean Girls...

Could you just start going out for lunch? Brown bag it at a local park or something? Maybe if you're not in the same lunch environment she/they'll forget about you after a while.

 

[proteanmix]

Jesus Christ, it's like Office Space meets Mean Girls...

Could you just start going out for lunch? Brown bag it at a local park or something? Maybe if you're not in the same lunch environment she/they'll forget about you after a while.

Play or pay. This isn't something that you can just ignore and hope goes away. I've seen people who opt out and they get the worst of it. They sit in their offices with the door closed don't talk to anybody or very few people for whatever reasons they don't fare much better.

In an office environment you have to remember the stakes are higher. These are people's careers, they need to have the right connections and the right people on their team to advance them. It's not what you know, but who you know. Somebody likes someone and they get promoted.

I see it more like "Survivor" than "Mean Girls."

 

[Mycroft]

They sit in their offices with the door closed don't talk to anybody or very few people for whatever reasons they don't fare much better.

What do you mean when you say that they don't fare any better? Do you mean that they get insulted by these three lovely sounding specimens? If that's it, well, not to sound glib, but whoopty-fucking-do.

 

[proteanmix]

What do you mean when you say that they don't fare any better? Do you mean that they get insulted by these three lovely sounding specimens? If that's it, well, not to sound glib, but whoopty-fucking-do.

In my old department there was a guy who told me he didn't like the games the CFO was playing and she played many. People would compete for her favor. Whenever we'd have an office lunch or birthday party, he wouldn't participate. Many people commented on his lack of involvement with the rest of the department and he seemed a bit stand-offish. I admit that the only way I got over my reluctance to deal with him is that I had to go to him for key components of my job.

Less than two months later he told me the CFO gave him a poor performance evaluation that was the nice way of telling him "you're fired." She said he didn't work well with the others in the department. I agree, most people were afraid to go to his office and get what they needed from him so it was very inefficient. This is one of the effects of not playing.

Many business deals aren't made in the conference room but over lunch and a golf course. If people exclude themselves from these informal gatherings, there's a lot of opportunities they're missing out on. If a supervisor can barely remember who you are then you're not as likely to be remembered when it's time for promotions or raises. When you layer that with people actively seeking to destroy you and you don't have any allies then you're basically screwed.

 

[Mycroft]

Whoah there partner. This is the first you mentioned about her being the CFO.

 

[proteanmix]

No, no I was giving an example of what happens. The women in the OP aren't in any position to fire anyone although they can make your working day quite unpleasant.

 

[Mycroft]

You could always quit.

 

[ptgatsby]

I'm curious to know how this has progressed... any updates?

 

[anii]

What I don't get is, wasn't the queen bee demoted due to an inability to work well with others?

If that is common knowledge, then why are other staff continuing to give her power?

The correct general strategy will involve transformation (change the battlegrounds so her defenses have no value) and negation (counterattack in sharper attacks to prevent pack mentality from overwhelming her).

These are only two strategies that I see after that email.

Change where you challenge her and smile through the rest. The normal one is that you are there for work - change the battlefield to that. Set the alpha up for professional punishment. Call her on everything she does late, everytime she causes you to come up short. Document it well. And smile through it all.

The second requires taking her on her own turf. Find out what she is insecure about. Find her weaknesses. Practise lines that push them. Then start using them. Use them on her, use them on her friends.

Any other solution would involve avoidance - change jobs, positions, etc.

There is no nice solution, which is why I don't think she'll be able to come back after that email. It will require a very hostile attitude.

How do you know this? Is there a book or something? I've always felt blindsided when confronted with workplace bullies. For once I want to be armed in advance.

If I was in that woman's position, I would play. I don't manipulate people I care about (at least not intentionally). But when I work with assholes, especially people who act like they're in some sort of high school clique, it's game on! I always win.

So how do you play, and how do you win?

What are your techniques?

 

[ptgatsby]

If that is common knowledge, then why are other staff continuing to give her power?

I highly suggest that idealism be left behind... accept that is how things work and work back from there. Situations like this defy our normal social conditioning... it's all around us but we choose to ignore it for the comfort of our own mind.

How do you know this? Is there a book or something? I've always felt blindsided when confronted with workplace bullies. For once I want to be armed in advance.

For general stuff, I'd read "The 48 Laws of Power". The reality is that every situation is different... it's the ability to change approaches and the knowledge base/experience that will help, not a ruleset.

The other side is that in many cases, bullying should not be the word on uses. There are very few work bullies - most are simply confrontational and unpleasant (ie: very T, goal orientated, self serving) which is an entirely different beast than actual bullies (like in the OP). It's normal to project the situation and situations are better resolved (either directly or indirectly) when seen for what they are.

So, that's what I would suggest. Flex the emotionless muscle, distance yourself, tame the emotional reaction... Then work on thinking strategically - where do you want the situation to end up and how to do resolve it. Once you reach that point you will need to get beyond hesitation and aim for carrying through. Those are more or less the three core steps - remove emotion, learn to strategize, learn to implement.

(FWIW, INFPs hurt for these three steps - it's very much against your nature... so it wont' be easy. However, the way you do it can differ for your own style, INFPs would normally prefer undermining and passive aggressive tendencies... but those are riskier which is why they aren't normally used. It depends on what you want - for pure defense you should be fine, but if you want to climb the corporate ladder, you'll need a very different approach... one that might not sit well.)

 

[Maverick]

There are very few work bullies - most are simply confrontational and unpleasant (ie: very T, goal orientated, self serving) which is an entirely different beast than actual bullies (like in the OP). It's normal to project the situation and situations are better resolved (either directly or indirectly) when seen for what they are.

I'm part of those unpleasant, confrontational, very T, goal oriented and self serving people. But I never put anyone in the shit or play stupid mind games. Those in the OP seem pleasant, non confrontational, very F, non-goal oriented and other serving. And THEY deliberately put people in the shit.

Work has taught me that the meanest looking people may be the ones who, in fact, do you the less harm. While the nicest ones are to be monitored with caution. Dumb idealism would tell us that disagreeable people are not to be trusted and nice/warm people are. Bullshit, I can only trust someone who has enough backbone to tell other people what he thinks. If you haven't got any enemies, that probably means you've never been honest to anyone.

I have to cope with such idiots as the women in the OP all day long. And, unfortunately, this tends to be much more typical of female than male behavior. The thing is, managers (if they're smart) see right through this and they look stupid. These people are not respected for their competence. They think they have power... but they only have power over those who want to be their friends. Work is not meant to find friends and you shouldn't trust anyone in the first place. You never know if an asshole or bitch will use some info to backstab you later.

So, protean, you need to start seeing it as a GAME and don't let it get to you. See it as just play. Make fun of them and be sarcastic when you notice elements of the GAME if it can alleviate the pressure. Be as disagreeable as you can while remaining polite and not making mistakes. That is the key. And, never, never, ever, get openly angry or blow up. Keep your cool at all times or they will play the victims. Remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger so all this is a great learning experience for you and once you get the skills to cope with people like this... you'll be much harder to deal with.

 

[RDF]

I'm curious to know how this has progressed... any updates?

I thought of replying to this thread when it was active before, but I couldn't figure out the reporting structure among the women.

That is, the Alpha Female (AF) got demoted and proteanmix's friend (PF) was hired or promoted into AF's old spot. That makes PF senior to AF, but it's unclear whether AF is reporting to PF (and PF can directly order around and discipline AF) or whether PF is senior to AF but both report to a boss directly above them (so PF can't discipline AF directly but can complain to the boss about AF).

That makes a certain amount of difference in what strategy to take.

As for the e-mail in the OP, it's hard to say what effect it might have. I've noticed that catty women have their own ways of addressing and resolving disputes. So who knows? Maybe in Catty Woman World that was actually an effective tactic. PF was part of AF's lunch circle for a while; maybe she calculated that an in-your-face accusation of cattiness would be a needed shot across their bow, while the apologies would shield her from accusations of being personally insulting.

An e-mail like that would be worse than useless against alpha males. But I don't know the rules of Catty Woman World, so who knows.

As for the basic situation of a new senior person dealing with alpha staff: There were lots of instances when I was in the military where I came into a new platoon as a sergeant and I got challenged by a group of alpha male senior corporals determined to show that they weren't impressed by me. After a while it was no big deal. Rank and reporting structure are everything, so you let that work for you. Like ptgatsby said earlier, if you're going to fight any conflicts, then you only fight them over professional and workplace issues so that you can use the advantages of rank and reporting structure. Meantime you keep personal issues and emotions out of it.

The e-mail is problematic because it seems to broach personal issues (gossiping during lunchtime and a refusal to be in someone's company). But again, it's hard to factor in the e-mail and say where to go from there without knowing the reporting structure and without knowing how the e-mail was received in AF's Catty Woman World.

 

[anii]

This thread reminds me of why we need other types (and why I became so frustrated with that *other* forum).

I've learned more in one day from this thread about navigating office politics than I have in months of research elsewhere.

I feel like we are getting insider secrets from experts... please don't stop.

I have to cope with such idiots as the women in the OP all day long.

What is "OP"?

 

[Athenian200]

What is "OP"?

In order of likelihood:

1. Original Post

2. Operator

 

[anii]

In order of likelihood:

1. Original Post

2. Operator

Well, s/he was referring to the real-life workplace... so I doubt it's either.

 

[FDG]

That's why I truly really want to be self-employed.

 

[Maverick]

Well, s/he was referring to the real-life workplace... so I doubt it's either.

it's to the "original post" I was referring to

That's why I truly really want to be self-employed.

Definitely, and one of the main motivations for starting a business is escaping office politics.

 

[Economica]

Definitely, and one of the main motivations for starting a business is escaping office politics.

Or rather, getting to control it, right? After all, if the business takes off, there will still be office politics.

 

[Maverick]

Or rather, getting to control it, right? After all, if the business takes off, there will still be office politics.

I'd get rid of any player as soon as I find out I want people who want to gain power through competence, not their relationships with others.