Office Politics: Play or Pay

[proteanmix]

There is a group of women in my office that have the gravitational pull of a black hole. It's not enough to be friendly with them, they want you to be part of them. They don't even particularly like you, they just don't want you rejecting them.

You can exclude yourself (which I do and have felt their sting many times), but they exert a very strong force. One jokinglyrolleyes: ) said "we'll just go talk in X's office all the time, so the Boss will think she's not working and fire her teeheehee!" They form very tight bonds with the ones in charge and slip subtle comments to them. They even sometimes look like they're doing you a favor, but all they're trying to do is prove how much power they have over you, that they can sway the Boss.

All of the major battles go down during lunch time. It's very strategic. The alpha female sits down at the table and her top aides sit on her right and left. The rank and file fill up the rest of the seats. I've listened to three of my coworkers try to figure out ways how to avoid eating lunch with them, pretending to be at meetings, ducking around corners and into bathrooms to sneak out and get lunch. The only reason I've been able to avoid it is because I don't work in this department, but I sit next to them and get information from the ones desperate to escape.

This is how one of them finally decided to free herself from this clique. The backlash is already forming, I hope she can withstand.

Dear ladies,

It is with great regret that I inform you of my desire to excuse myself from our lunch conversations. Although I do enjoy your company very much, I am not comfortable with a lot of the subject matter of our conversations. I have participated or remained in the midst of conversations because I have not wanted to be teased about excluding myself. However, I cannot continue to pretend that I am okay with it and, at the risk of being called a prude, I am removing myself from the environment. I hope that you will understand where I am coming from. I do not accept disrespectfulness from anyone else and should not make exceptions.

I am sorry that I am not able to go into details, I do not feel it would be appropriate by this means, but I would be happy to discuss this further with anyone who wishes to do so.

No worries, I am not upset, but I feel that work is stressful enough and lunch is supposed to be a time to relax and be comfortable.

I know this is probably coming out of left field for a few of you, but I really respect you guys and hold you in the best of regards and I do not want that to be compromised.

It was very difficult for me to write this, I have been thinking about it for a long time and just kept trying to convince myself that I was being sensitive and that the conversations were just a means of being silly. But, I was not being honest with myself or with you guys and I cannot continue to do that. I think it would not be fair for you to have to curb your fun on my account, so I believe removing myself would be the best thing to do.

I hope you understand and are not upset by this email.

 

[Sahara]

This is how one of them finally decided to free herself from this clique. The backlash is already forming, I hope she can withstand.

Me too, as I think her email was too apologetic, it showed a bit of weakness and bullies, which is what those ladies are, pick up on the signs of weakness and use it.

The only way to deal with women like that is to be blunt and harsh if necessary, strength against strength. No apology is needed to these women, an apology, and so much explanation is showing fear of repurcussions, they will use it.

I would show them they can't bully me quite quickly, and if necessary report them much higher if the lower level management is corrupted by them.

 

[Totenkindly]

Me too, as I think her email was too apologetic, it showed a bit of weakness and bullies, which is what those ladies are, pick up on the signs of weakness and use it.

Since Sahara broke the ice, I will say that I thought it was well-written.. but I wasn't even halfway through and thinking, "Why is she explaining so much? Rather than defusing things, it will be more like gasoline on the fire, if she keeps going!"

I do not mean to diminish what she did, though. I know these sort of confrontations are a hard thing to do, and I also recall times when I was emotionally invested in a situation and probably did the exact same thing she did (i.e., explained too much, trying to defuse the situation).

I hope she survives and thrives without any sort of backlash.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

Out of curiosity is the "alpha female" in a position above everyone else or equal?

 

[proteanmix]

Since Sahara broke the ice, I will say that I thought it was well-written.. but I wasn't even halfway through and thinking, "Why is she explaining so much? Rather than defusing things, it will be more like gasoline on the fire, if she keeps going!"

I do not mean to diminish what she did, though. I know these sort of confrontations are a hard thing to do, and I also recall times when I was emotionally invested in a situation and probably did the exact same thing she did (i.e., explained too much, trying to defuse the situation).

I hope she survives and thrives without any sort of backlash.

I think it's too apologetic. She shouldn't have to apologize for wanting to sit by herself at lunch. These chicks are crazy. They asked me why I don't sit with them and I laughed and said because I don't want to, teeheehee!

This is High School Redux.

Out of curiosity is the "alpha female" in a position above everyone else or equal?

They're all equal! Actually the alpha female was demoted to her current position because she had an attitude problem and didn't work well with others. The person who took her position was promoted and had no idea of the boiling pot of shit she was dropped into. The alpha female has been riding her since she was promoted into her former position.

I'm friends with the one who as promoted and we don't hang out with them, but it's very hard for my friend. She works in that department whereas I don't I can avoid them or keep conversation to confined to light banter. She can't do that as easily because she has to work with them.

Another thing I notice in that department is gender imbalance. All of the people in the clique are women less than 35. I've worked in majority female environments for most of my life and they always seem to degrade into a level of cattiness that I don't see in more mixed-sexed offices.

 

[ptgatsby]

To weak, not direct enough, not barbed for forwarding, no material details, too much emotion.

She's toast, both personally and most likely at the professional level. The likelyhood of her being able to maintain her position here for more than half a year is unlikely, assuming the dynamics remain.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it's too apologetic. She shouldn't have to apologize for wanting to sit by herself at lunch. These chicks are crazy. They asked me why I don't sit with them and I laughed and said because I don't want to, teeheehee!

Maybe that's what I feeling uncomfortable about. She has no reason to apologize, she isn't doing anything wrong.

In a situation where someone feels uncomfortable eating with someone else, they usually just do not keep eating with them, no explanation necessary.

Actually the alpha female was demoted to her current position because she had an attitude problem and didn't work well with others.

Hee, that's hilarious!

Another thing I notice in that department is gender imbalance. All of the people in the clique are women less than 35. I've worked in majority female environments for most of my life and they always seem to degrade into a level of cattiness that I don't see in more mixed-sexed offices.

C works in the office for a furniture store chain, and the office has an all-woman staff, most in their 20's and without much secondary education if any. They have the same type of catty environment. I am just amazed by some of the behavior she describes to me after work -- it's things that my 10-year-old children would do as part of squabbling with each other.

 

[Athenian200]

To weak, not direct enough, not barbed for forwarding, no material details, too much emotion.

She's toast, both personally and most likely at the professional level. The likelyhood of her being able to maintain her position here for more than half a year is unlikely, assuming the dynamics remain.

Well, I think that's a little harsh. A person shouldn't lose their job based on some clique's opinion, especially when they were supposedly friends. Too much emotion? She's having to admit to herself that her friends have been bullies and she was helping them, in addition to risking a long-standing friendship.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

They have the same type of catty environment. I am just amazed by some of the behavior she describes to me after work -- it's things that my 10-year-old children would do as part of squabbling with each other.

The #1 reason I have so few female friends.

 

[Sahara]

The #1 reason I have so few female friends.

Was thinking the same thing, my closest friend is as tomboyish in attitude as you can get, which is perfect.

 

[ptgatsby]

Well, I think that's a little harsh. A person shouldn't lose their job based on some clique's opinion, especially when they were supposedly friends. Too much emotion? She's having to admit to herself that her friends have been bullies and she was helping them, in addition to risking a long-standing friendship.

You do me wrong! Right or wrong, that's the likely outcome from this situation. Do I think it is fair? No. But fair doesn't run the corporate world, and it sure doesn't rule "high school politics".

The only chance she has now is to fight, to embrace the fight. From that email, I'd give that about a 5% chance. She'd have to set the alpha up and rip her down leading to an insecure "pack". At that point, the pack would divide loyalties up (social to one, political capital to the other) and she could exploit that, either nullifiying the methods the alpha would use or removing her directly.

Otherwise, they will slowly sabotage her while increasing her social stress level. 6 months would be my projection, without considering factors like length of service, age, alternative employment.

 

[Lateralus]

If I was in that woman's position, I would play. I don't manipulate people I care about (at least not intentionally). But when I work with assholes, especially people who act like they're in some sort of high school clique, it's game on! I always win.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

Was thinking the same thing, my closest friend is as tomboyish in attitude as you can get, which is perfect.

Yes my best friend is a no nonsense ISTJ. She and I get along like perfectly.

The only chance she has now is to fight, to embrace the fight. From that email, I'd give that about a 5% chance.

Having played the game many times before I am going to have to agree. I think that email was the wrong way to go. I got mostly fear from it.

 

[proteanmix]

Y'all, this well is deep.

When I transferred departments from my old one, they were the first ones to reach out to me and be nice to me. I didn't know anyone on my floor and they were the people closest to my age group. Individually they are very nice people; buying cards and decorating cubes for birthdays, sending out funny emails all day, very congenial.

When you finally get comfortable and feel like you can strike out on your own is when the problems begin. I started hanging out more and more with one of them because I felt like we could bond. We would eat lunch together without them. Like I said, I'm not in that department but my friend is. They're very strategic, the alpha female wants to make my friends life miserable at work. Once we were sitting at lunch (with them) and she said "your boyfriend must not love you that much if he bought you cubic zirconia." The people who didn't laughed had the food drop out of their mouths. She's criticized my friend's clothes, hair, eating habits, relationship ("he should marry you after three years") and everyone just laughs along. I'm surprised at the one who got away because I always thought she was a very high ranking official.

We're trying to figure out a way to deal with this problem. It's not as easy as it looks. None of what she's doing is outright harassment, it's very subtle. And she says things in such a joking manner and so covertly that you have to be smooth replying to her, so you don't look like you're overreacting.

 

[Athenian200]

You do me wrong! Right or wrong, that's the likely outcome from this situation. Do I think it is fair? No. But fair doesn't run the corporate world, and it sure doesn't rule "high school politics".

The only chance she has now is to fight, to embrace the fight. From that email, I'd give that about a 5% chance. She'd have to set the alpha up and rip her down leading to an insecure "pack". At that point, the pack would divide loyalties up (social to one, political capital to the other) and she could exploit that, either nullifiying the methods the alpha would use or removing her directly.

Otherwise, they will slowly sabotage her while increasing her social stress level. 6 months would be my projection, without considering factors like length of service, age, alternative employment.

I'm sorry ptgatsby, I misunderstood, it just sounded like you were criticizing, I didn't realize you were just assessing.

Personally, I would have continued to associate with those people if I thought I could lose my job for not doing so, but would have tried to uncover something I could use to blackmail them into leaving me alone. I think she did the right thing morally, but the wrong thing if she wanted to retain her position.

 

[ptgatsby]

We're trying to figure out a way to deal with this problem. It's not as easy as it looks. None of what she's doing is outright harassment, it's very subtle. And she says things in such a joking manner and so covertly that you have to be smooth replying to her, so you don't look like you're overreacting.

Pretty standard, overall. This even happens in "men's" politics, though this subtle approach is normally a female tactic (it diffuses the attack enough that any attempt to come down hard will just let it reform after. Hey, that sounded very Tsu, didn't it?). The correct general strategy will involve transformation (change the battlegrounds so her defenses have no value) and negation (counterattack in sharper attacks to prevent pack mentality from overwhelming her).

These are only two strategies that I see after that email.

Change where you challenge her and smile through the rest. The normal one is that you are there for work - change the battlefield to that. Set the alpha up for professional punishment. Call her on everything she does late, everytime she causes you to come up short. Document it well. And smile through it all.

The second requires taking her on her own turf. Find out what she is insecure about. Find her weaknesses. Practise lines that push them. Then start using them. Use them on her, use them on her friends.

Any other solution would involve avoidance - change jobs, positions, etc.

There is no nice solution, which is why I don't think she'll be able to come back after that email. It will require a very hostile attitude.

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

We're trying to figure out a way to deal with this problem. It's not as easy as it looks. None of what she's doing is outright harassment, it's very subtle. And she says things in such a joking manner and so covertly that you have to be smooth replying to her, so you don't look like you're overreacting.

It sounds to me like thinly veiled passive-aggression with a couple of ass-kissers in tow. I am not positive how I would respond but in the position of your friend it would likely be head-on. In your position (not directly working with her) and wanting to protect/comfort my friend it would likely take the form of passive-aggressive behaviors myself.


Edit: In other words I would end up playing.

 

[Lateralus]

Pretty standard, overall. This even happens in "men's" politics, though this subtle approach is normally a female tactic (it diffuses the attack enough that any attempt to come down hard will just let it reform after. Hey, that sounded very Tsu, didn't it?). The correct general strategy will involve transformation (change the battlegrounds so her defenses have no value) and negation (counterattack in sharper attacks to prevent pack mentality from overwhelming her).

These are only two strategies that I see after that email.

Change where you challenge her and smile through the rest. The normal one is that you are there for work - change the battlefield to that. Set the alpha up for professional punishment. Call her on everything she does late, everytime she causes you to come up short. Document it well. And smile through it all.

The second requires taking her on her own turf. Find out what she is insecure about. Find her weaknesses. Practise lines that push them. Then start using them. Use them on her, use them on her friends.

Any other solution would involve avoidance - change jobs, positions, etc.

There is no nice solution, which is why I don't think she'll be able to come back after that email. It will require a very hostile attitude.

I love exploiting the insecurities of people like that. I have too strong of a conscience to do it, most of the time. But in this particular situation, I would revel in the opportunity.

 

[heart]

I think there is a group of women like this at every office.

If she has now become a target, this site might help give some advice.

 

[niffer]

Lol! High school redux. Actually, we don't have crap like this in our high school. In my opinion, the biggest problem here is that if violence is used, then she'll get fired. Otherwise it would be over pretty quickly.