[MBTI General] A question for INFXs

[heart]

if i am off base, just ignore me.

Speaking for myself, I don't want to ignore you, I want to understand you and get to know you. I was misunderstanding your points I think and I am sorry for that.

 

[Meursault]

This is what friends do for each other to a point. If the friend keeps getting in those situations or keeps doing nothing to change those situations and to all appearances, they are able to, do we let them sleep on our couch indefinitely or buy them groceries every week? This is why I say that it does make a difference whether or not we have other responsibilities. Personally, I have a husband who must work a lot of hours and four kids. The time I take to talk on the phone, the money I spend to help out, the time and gas I take to drive someone someplace is time or money I'm not giving to my family or using to recharge myself so I can be healthy and well to take care of my family.

If someone continues to be in need of inordinate amounts of time and energy and shows no signs of ever needing less even though it appears that it does not need to be the case, the time comes for me when I feel they are robbing my family or I am robbing my family for them.

Well, yeah, saying nice things like that is a no brainer, isn't it? I can't imagine not doing that.

really, the infj in our office is one of the ones who treats her the worst, though it is very close tie with the intp from tech services.

when i was in high school my best friend's mother took me into their house--they were a poor family of four often relying on food stamps to cover the gap between paychecks and cost of living but they refused to take any money from me or my family (despite my family having plenty of it) to pay my way, they just said, live by our rules and help us out with the chores. at that same time, they had taken in a whole other family of three, the mother was a recovering addict. the addict mom slipped off the wagon repeatedly. but you know what, none of us teens were negatively harmed by being exposed to a major fuck up--if anything it made us better, stronger people. what you say is for you-- other people make radically different choices and the world goes round. this is a pure value judgement--we will never agree on this.

look, it is really hard for me to read your posts, especially this one--all i can ever think of when i see your name is how you offer up anti-infp diatribes of your infp daughter to an audience who loves nothing better than to castigate infps (it always smacked of something just short of child pornography to me--not to mention betrayal)--it irrationally clouds my judgement of you. so it is hard for me to read out what you say without bias because i can't not think of it.

FWIW: if she really is an infp, she is picking up your lack of acceptance and it is poisoning her soul. i pray for her sake, you are wrong about her MBTI type.

 

[heart]

look, it is really hard for me to read your posts, especially this one--all i can ever think of when i see your name is how you offer up anti-infp diatribes of your infp daughter to an audience who loves nothing better than to castigate infps (it always smacked of something just short of child pornography to me--not to mention betrayal)--it irrationally clouds my judgement of you. so it is hard for me to read out what you say without bias because i can't not think of it.

FWIW: if she really is an infp, she is picking up your lack of acceptance and it is poisoning her soul. i pray for her sake, you are wrong about her MBTI type.

I read Cafe's blog here most of the time she posts and I haven't seen anything like you describe.

I also haven't seen INFP unduly castigated on this particular board.

 

[cafe]

really, the infj in our office is one of the ones who treats her the worst, though it is very close tie with the intp from tech services.

when i was in high school my best friend's mother took me into their house--they were a poor family of four often relying on food stamps to cover the gap between paychecks and cost of living but they refused to take any money from me or my family (despite my family having plenty of it) to pay my way, they just said, live by our rules and help us out with the chores. at that same time, they had taken in a whole other family of three, the mother was a recovering addict. the addict mom slipped off the wagon repeatedly. but you know what, none of us teens were negatively harmed by being exposed to a major fuck up--if anything it made us better, stronger people. what you say is for you-- other people make radically different choices and the world goes round. this is a pure value judgement--we will never agree on this.

look, it is really hard for me to read your posts, especially this one--all i can ever think of when i see your name is how you offer up anti-infp diatribes of your infp daughter to an audience who loves nothing better than to castigate infps (it always smacked of something just short of child pornography to me--not to mention betrayal)--it irrationally clouds my judgement of you. so it is hard for me to read out what you say without bias because i can't not think of it.

FWIW: if she really is an infp, she is picking up your lack of acceptance and it is poisoning her soul. i pray for her sake, you are wrong about her MBTI type.

I'm not going to say that I don't vent on my blog. I do. It helps me not to do it as much out loud. I know that nobody wants to hear that crap, but talking about it or writing about it is the best way I have found to purge myself so I can continue to function in a healthy way.

Any rant you see in my blog about anybody is purge session for me and not to be considered a diatribe or my full feelings about the person involved, except for maybe my dad's girlfriend, because other than being someone my dad has a good relationship with, I really can't see any redeeming value there.

There are characteristics that my daughter has that, yes, do at times get under my skin, but it is not generally anything that is wrong about her, it's just a little clash and it's my deal, not hers. I'm the parent and I have to find a way to cope with things that, as a human being, annoy me while at the same time, cause as little damage as possible to my child. My blog is my outlet for that. You will see me ranting about her and about my extroverted son as well. Not as much about my other two kids--right now. If you had caught me . . . eleven years ago, you would have been reading rants about my INTJ. She was just about the biggest pain in the butt toddler I've ever seen and it was frustrating to deal with at the time. You have these phases with children when they are more difficult than usual. It's not generally permanent. You do what you can to work with it and you get through it and before you know it, it's one of the other kids driving you nuts. That's just being a parent and being a human being.

Last year, my focus was on my INFP a lot because she was having problems with school. I was frustrated with the entire situation, but least of all, her. She couldn't help it. It just wasn't working for her. I did everything I knew to do to get the situation ironed out and I am still working on the situation, though we don't have as much stress about it because she is home so far this year.

But I will say this, and I want to be very clear about it, my INFP daughters is one of the best human beings on the face of this planet. I know that I am biased because she is my daughter, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. This child, I worry about what the world may do to her, but I don't worry about her heart or her character. She has a heart as good as gold. She is smart. She is kind. She is courageous. She is fun. I would challenge anyone to find a better person and she is only twelve. I'm saying that I respect her, not just as a fellow human being, but as an individual, based on her good character and that I also like her because of her personality. The adults I can say that of are few and far between. I am, after all, a judgmental INFJ.

She is also my outdoors buddy and my going places buddy. All the other kids want to stay home hooked up to their electronics, but she and I go out and do things because we like to and we enjoy each other. We have, from her birth, had a very strong bond, stronger than any of my other children. It is uncomfortable at times for me because of the whole empathic thing. When she expresses strong negative feelings they wash over me as if they were my own feelings. It's like being overwhelmed by a tidal wave of pain or whatever other feeling she is feeling and I have no defenses against it because I can't block half-way and I will not block her.

I go out of my way to explain my reactions to her so she will understand that it is just me having a hard time and nothing to do with how I feel about her. Now that she isn't in a situation that is stressing her to the point of making her physically ill, we are having a much, much smoother time of it and are able to enjoy each other more. But since you have me thinking about it, I will make an extra effort to express how much I think of her. I am sure that I don't do that enough.

As far as the recovering addict thing, first of all, my kids are not teenagers, or rather, only one of them is, second of all, I can't begin to describe just how much it breaks my fifteen year old brother's heart every time his dad falls off the wagon. It tears him up. I think that it is in part, a result of my mother making it such a big deal, but it is what it is. I don't know if it's making him a better person or not. I do know that no kid should have to go through that, least of all at his parent's hands.

With my (ex)-step-dad, I certainly have not cut him out of my life or the life of my children. I have point blank explained to him that I can't imagine how hard his struggle is and that I don't know, with some of his past, how he's even managed to stay alive this long. I told him that I realize that it is something he is probably going to struggle with for the rest of his life and I do not hate him for it and I will not reject him for it. It's just life and things happen like that sometimes. I told him the only thing that I ask of him is that he not put my family in danger by driving any of us if he his on drugs or alcohol. I told him if he is not in good shape to drive, to just tell me. I'm not going to hate him. I'm not going to write him off, I'm going to drive so that everyone is safe. But I also told him that putting my family in danger is the one thing that would cause me to not have anything to do with him. He is not my dad, not even my step-dad anymore, but of all the grandparents, he is the one I can count on the most despite his own struggles. When he was not sure how he was going to pay his utilities and he was saying he might have to go to the shelter I told him no way was that going to happen. He would be staying with us. He'd have to smoke outside, but we have a covered carport, so it wouldn't be horrible.

I have also explained to my kids that Grandpa has this problem. I have not made it some big moral issue, but I want them to understand that it has nothing to do with how he feels about them (I don't want them to take it personally like my brother does) and I want them to be aware of the problem for their own safety. If they are visiting at his house and he is on downs and falls asleep in his chair with a lit cigarette (he has done it countless times, even to the point of burning himself and not waking up) that they need to call me. Lately, he has, to my knowledge, been clean, but since it is something he will probably always struggle with it is something we will always have to be watchful of.

Now I will admit that I am protective of my kids and that I go out of my way to keep them away from unnecessary drama, but they have experienced poverty and hardship. They have experienced people from all walks of life. I have friends that barely made it through high school and I have friends with master's degrees. I have friends that are evangelical and I have one friend that is a very vocal gay pagan (the INFP and I are both quite taken with him. He's a kindred spirit.). What I don't want is for them to feel the kind of constant insecurity and upset that I felt as a child. I want them to feel safe and secure and loved. I want them to have a chance to be children. I do not apologize for that. Not one little bit. It is what I promised myself I would do when I was eighteen years old and I realized that I couldn't do anything about the craziness I experienced growing up, but I had a choice about how I lived my own life.

You will not hear me making any claims about loving humanity. Humanity, is like all other things, a mixed bag. People can be so wonderfully altruistic that you just ache with the beauty of it and they can be so horrendously cruel that you want to burn the memory of their acts out of your brain with a hot poker and damn the pain, it'd be worth it. Most people are in between. We are selfish and we are flawed and we stumble along doing the best we can despite our demons and our loneliness.

I cannot save the world, but I can do the best I can with my own little piece of it and in my little piece of it, I am a mother. That is my primary role and my primary obligation. There are four children in my little piece of the world who only have one mother and it is that mother's job to look after them. They have a father, too, but he has to go make money so the children have what they need, so it is primarily the mother's job to make sure they are looked after. Outside of their parents, there is no one else whose special responsibility it is to look after just them.

That is how I see it. It is my first job and I must do my best and if we all do our best with our own little pieces of the world, then maybe the world will get a little better for us all. Maybe not. That doesn't exempt me from doing my job. So that is my starting point. I can do what I may for people outside of my primary responsibility, but if I do it at the expense of my primary responsibility (that NO ONE ELSE is going to do) then I have screwed up the one area, the one little piece of the world, that I alone was responsible for.

If I can carry out being a decent parent and giving my kids what they need to grow and be healthy people, then it is possible that they will be able to help people in turn or that they at least will be able to take care of themselves and their kids. What would have happened if someone had been able to do that for my step-dad? What if he hadn't had an extremely traumatic childhood and lifelong anxiety and emotional pain? Maybe, just maybe, he might not have become a drug addict. Maybe he and my mom would have been able to work out their marriage (or he would have married someone healthier than my mother). Maybe my brother would not be in the kind of pain that he is in now. Maybe I wouldn't have to warn my kids in order to protect them from being killed in a house fire and I would be able to trust my step-dad not to drive stoned. There's no way to know what might have happened, but I can't help but believe giving kids a secure, peaceful home environment is a good thing.

As far as an anti-INFP mentality on this board, I don't really see it. I see a lot of anti-sensor and anti-extrovert stuff and I see a little anti-Fe sentiment, but the anti-INFP thing is just coming out of the blue as far as I can see. If you want to give some specific incidents of any of your claims, especially those relating to my daughter, I'd be interested to see them from another perspective. Personally, I admit, my first impression of INFPs a few years back, was not the best. As I've gotten to know more of them, my initial impression has changed a great deal, and I'd be hard pressed to find anyone on any forum that I think more of than heart. I instantly liked her and nothing I've seen of her has changed my impression other than to confirm and expand upon it. And she isn't the only INFP that I like and respect, she is just the first one that popped into my head.

 

[Totenkindly]

Sigh.

I wish I could offer clarity to this, but it's far too complicated and only adds one more voice to the cacophony. All I can see is many good intentions by everyone, but probably it is to the point where it would be best for everyone to focus on their own comments and where they might have gone wrong, and not worry about an analysis of anyone else. The conversation very much started out on the wrong foot and kept going from there.

IOW, burn the old conversation to the ground, kick through the ashes, and start over and build fresh, without any preconceptions over what someone else is doing.

(That's not to say that there have not been some very honest and good recollections being shared here.)

 

[Meursault]

I'm not going to say that I don't vent on my blog. I do. It helps me not to do it as much out loud. I know that nobody wants to hear that crap, but talking about it or writing about it is the best way I have found to purge myself so I can continue to function in a healthy way....

As far as an anti-INFP mentality on this board, I don't really see it. I see a lot of anti-sensor and anti-extrovert stuff and I see a little anti-Fe sentiment, but the anti-INFP thing is just coming out of the blue as far as I can see. If you want to give some specific incidents of any of your claims, especially those relating to my daughter, I'd be interested to see them from another perspective. Personally, I admit, my first impression of INFPs a few years back, was not the best. As I've gotten to know more of them, my initial impression has changed a great deal, and I'd be hard pressed to find anyone on any forum that I think more of than heart. I instantly liked her and nothing I've seen of her has changed my impression other than to confirm and expand upon it. And she isn't the only INFP that I like and respect, she is just the first one that popped into my head.

heart strikes me as an infj actually--she shares easily about herself and she posts a lot which seems very un-infp-ish and more infj-ish to me, but maybe she is just a very openinfp--i don't like challenging people on their type.

i haven't read your blog, the posts i was referring to where all on intpcentral before mbticentral was reborn, they weren't posted here...to me, mbticentral is just a sub-forum of intpcentral--almost all of the posters where there first and are still there more than here, and this was created because of hustler's NF purge last year...

i would say that your less than positive opinion of infps came across pretty clearly on intpc...

i accept what you have said, and am glad that i am wrong. i shared it, because i think people should be honest about what is really going on with what they are saying--my opinion of your posts on your daughter was making it too hard for me to deal with what you were saying here and now.

 

[cafe]

heart strikes me as an infj actually--she shares easily about herself and she posts a lot which seems very un-infp-ish and more infj-ish to me, but maybe she is just a very openinfp--i don't like challenging people on their type.

i haven't read your blog, the posts i was referring to where all on intpcentral before mbticentral was reborn, they weren't posted here...to me, mbticentral is just a sub-forum of intpcentral--almost all of the posters where there first and are still there more than here, and this was created because of hustler's NF purge last year...

i would say that your less than positive opinion of infps came across pretty clearly on intpc...

i accept what you have said, and am glad that i am wrong. i shared it, because i think people should be honest about what is really going on with what they are saying--my opinion of your posts on your daughter was making it too hard for me to deal with what you were saying here and now.

Well, I will just say that it is just good that I do not know you well enough to take what you say to heart because if I had believed what you said I would have been in the bathtub with my fillet knife in pretty short order.

 

[Totenkindly]

i haven't read your blog, the posts i was referring to where all on intpcentral before mbticentral was reborn, they weren't posted here...to me, mbticentral is just a sub-forum of intpcentral--almost all of the posters where there first and are still there more than here, and this was created because of hustler's NF purge last year... i would say that your less than positive opinion of infps came across pretty clearly on intpc...

To you, perhaps. Honestly, I *never* perceived it, nor do I perceive it now... and I usually look for bias in people's posts so I can balance what they are saying in my head. So this is coming out of left field still, to me, when you say it.

(And I think judging ANYONE through all the Emo that was flying during the Infamous INTPc NF Purge of Spring 2007 is a big mistake, imo. That was just a rotten chapter of history for everyone involved.)

In any case, I am glad that everyone is dealing better here now and things were resolved.

 

[RDF]

[...] i shared it, because i think people should be honest about what is really going on with what they are saying--my opinion of your posts on your daughter was making it too hard for me to deal with what you were saying here and now.

What a load of shit! Meursault, you had no right questioning Cafe's ability to mother her child properly. At a minimum, if you had any doubts about her attitude on INFPs due to past posts, then you should have linked specific posts and passages so she could clear those up rather than her having to post a long, wide-ranging defense of her love for her children.

Furthermore, I agree with Jennifer. I've honestly never seen any anti-INFP bias on Cafe's part. Cafe is one of the most level-headed, generous posters here. We all have quibbles with the way other personality types operate. The Fi that drives INFPs has its shortcomings (just like Ni, Ti, and Si). I would be interested in hearing about those shortcomings from someone as fair-minded and clear-sighted as Cafe.

By contrast, your own posts have mostly been histrionic and brain-dead. I cringe in advance whenever I see a new one.

When you posted your personal attack on Cafe, I didn't say anything because I was hoping Cafe and Jennifer would penalize you or better yet ban you. I couldn't imagine the mods and admins would put up with pit bull attacks like that as part of otherwise reasonable debates, and I didn't want to get in the way or appear to be somehow mitigating your offense.

But since you're back, I might as well provide my own belated input. As you yourself said... "i think people should be honest about what is really going on with what they are saying"

What utter bullshit!

 

[RDF]

... I would have been in the bathtub with my fillet knife in pretty short order.

Dissecting frogs, I hope.

:steam:

 

[RDF]

In any case, I am glad that everyone is dealing better here now and things were resolved.

Maybe not. But I think it's time for me to take a break from the message board. To paraphrase Economica, "Hell is other INFPs."

 

[Meursault]

What a load of shit! Meursault, you had no right questioning Cafe's ability to mother her child properly.

this would only be true if she hadn't addressed her daughter and her mothering skills on these boards--by doing so, she made it public. and she uses her mothering skills in this thread as a means of supporting her contentions.

At a minimum, if you had any doubts about her attitude on INFPs due to past posts, then you should have linked specific posts and passages so she could clear those up rather than her having to post a long, wide-ranging defense of her love for her children.

i can link them if you like...

Furthermore, I agree with Jennifer. I've honestly never seen any anti-INFP bias on Cafe's part. Cafe is one of the most level-headed, generous posters here. We all have quibbles with the way other personality types operate. The Fi that drives INFPs has its shortcomings (just like Ni, Ti, and Si). I would be interested in hearing about those shortcomings from someone as fair-minded and clear-sighted as Cafe.

and this became a competition to be the best poster when? i made one post here, which cafe and toonia took personally, and then i respected both to answer their questions as best i could--even though most of their questions were condescending. however, in trying to talk to cafe, esp. after she posted about how everything in her life is just to protect her family, i admitted that i could not respond to her without bias, and why--the bias i spoke was my own and i admitted it was irrational and unfair.

By contrast, your own posts have mostly been histrionic and brain-dead. I cringe in advance whenever I see a new one.

ok

When you posted your personal attack on Cafe, I didn't say anything because I was hoping Cafe and Jennifer would penalize you or better yet ban you. I couldn't imagine the mods and admins would put up with pit bull attacks like that as part of otherwise reasonable debates, and I didn't want to get in the way or appear to be somehow mitigating your offense.

But since you're back, I might as well provide my own belated input. As you yourself said... "i think people should be honest about what is really going on with what they are saying"

you may disagree, but i do believe people should be honest about why they are doing or saying something, i was--i was being unfair to cafe because of those posts about her daughter--i admitted it to her. if you want me banned that is fine, ban me.

What utter bullshit!

ok

EDIT: what kind of person posts the kind of message you did to me and then PMs it to the person too

 

[proteanmix]

Mersault, you don't have have the right or privilege to critique Cafe's mothering skills solely based on the fact that it's in a public domain. I mean, we're not talkin bout Britney Spears here.

She's patiently engaged you far more than what I would have.

 

[nightning]

*blinks* I don't know the details of everything happening... but as a outsider I see that this is heading more and more out of control. It reminds me of group attack against SeaWolf in INTPc. I'm sure most of you can recall what the outcome of that was. It's a problem between Mersault and Cafe... surely the two of them can work it out just fine in PM or whatnot without everybody else in the way.

 

[cafe]

True, true. A new thread can be started on the original topic if someone wants to. I think this one is tainted beyond saving. I'll lock it.