Ni: "Mapping Between Signs and Meaning"

[Glycerine]

You definitely sound like INFJ then.

 

[garbage]

I really like this description, it has relevance to how I learn about science as well.
...
Me: Neither have I, I just learnt the individual concepts and put everything together.

The understanding happened subconsciously, too. I didn't know that I knew it until I explained everything in a Te-driven manner. It just was how it happened to me.

The Te/Ni combination definitely manifests itself in this way for me, too. It's as if you just know how to take individual ideas or tangible goods and string them together in a way that gets the results or explanations that you're looking for.


I think the analogy of the Italian suit has to do with a Fe/Ni combination, in that social rules dictate that an Italian suit means something, but Ni dismantles that assumption. Thoughts on that?

 

[Costrin]

Theory:

Ni - Discovering the threads that tie different ideas together.
Ne - Following the threads from one idea to a new one.

 

[Glycerine]

Theory:

Ni - Discovering the threads that tie different ideas together.
Ne - Following the threads from one idea to a new one.

Bingo... that sounds about right!

 

[Apollanaut]

^I live and breathe this.

Me too!

 

[Apollanaut]

I like that element of it, but I almost do agree with nightning that it could be a bit more specific. I'd probably say something like about the ASSET versus outside the ASSET.

I was thinking about how Ni tends to think more like a video game. You know how when you play a video game, a lot of arbitrary rules get thrown around here and there, and instead of being like "THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE ACCORDING TO WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THE WORLD" (which is fine, even useful in other situations) you tend to use the rules and abilities and environments that you actively observe to give your very definition of the game, and how you should play in it. What, exactly, you should be doing, to move towards (ideally) a goal.

Now, with Ni...it's almost like LIFE is that game, and the exact definitions of things, although important in the right context, aren't absolutely important. Their absolute importance is almost defined by their...usefulness? At least within the given scenario (i.e., the video game)

That is really spooky - you have reached the exact same conclusion I did: that Ni is far more interested in "usefulness" than it is in "absolute truth", which seems to be what Ti is trying to discover. I've posted on this very idea before (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/12805-fi-vs-fe-what-do-you-really-feel-2.html, see entry 15) and upset a certain INTP by doing so!

I would hazard a guess that this difference is the source of some of the (occasionally nasty) conflicts that sometimes break out between INJs and INTPs. I'm thinking specifically here of the recent frank(!) exchange of views which got Jack Flak banned from this forum.

 

[Costrin]

Theory:

Ni - Discovering the threads that tie different ideas together.
Ne - Following the threads from one idea to a new one.

Expanding upon this.

Ti - Tying together different ideas into a whole.
Te - Tying together ideas in order to reach the end.

This means that Ti and Ni can look very similiar.

That big mess represents what an Ni/Ti model looks like. All the different ideas are tied together in a giant tangled mess. The difference is that to Ni, they were always there, Ni just found them. Ti on the other hand, tied them together by hand.

This is what Ne/Te looks like. It follows a straight line from one idea to the next. The difference again is that to Ne, they always existed, and Ne was just following the threads. And Te is going along and actually threading them together.

The threads Ni and Ne find aren't real, but then Ti and Te come along and make them real.

 

[nanook]

This means that Ti and Ni can look very similiar.

yeah unfortunately Fi and Ti can be talked about in such away, that it sound a lot like it was a perceptive function (Ni) *hint*


but if you look closely, you can often see that people talk about something that has a sequential if else style and a polar-alternating thing to it

Intuition is like a kaleidoscope but its a thinking or feeling function that makes the decision to swap the kaleidoscope all around.
(like: "lets check out if the opposite could be true as well" or "I could like this, then i would perceive it like this.... or I could hate this, then it would look like that ...")

so for example, that could make [TiNe] look like ... a creative & synthezising (introverted) kaleidoscope

however a true creative/synthezising kaleidoscope (Ni) does a switching in itself and its not a toggling as described, more like a pattern seeking like when you change the focus/zoom of a camera or switch from light to infrared. still the whole thing will be toggled by purpose for the liking of Te or Fe)

a function on its own cant make a lot of sense or meaning.

 

[Costrin]

yeah unfortunately Fi and Ti can be talked about in such away, that it sound a lot like it was perceptive function (Ni)

but if you look closely, you can often see that people talk about something that has a sequential if else style and a polar-alternating thing to it

Intuition is like a kaleidoscope but its a thinking or feeling function that makes the decision to swap the kaleidoscope all around. (lets check out if the opposite could be true as well)

for example, that could make [TiNe] look like ... a creative & synthezising (introverted) kaleidoscope

Yeah, still developing my metaphor for F and S. I think I have a pretty good one for S that I'll post eventually. My F metaphor still needs developing.

Eventually I'll have a giant visual representation of all the functions and no one will be able to understand them because my art skills suck!

Bottom line though: The functions are all actually pretty similiar.

 

[Domino]

Excellent visuals, Costrin.

 

[cascadeco]

That big mess represents what an Ni/Ti model looks like. All the different ideas are tied together in a giant tangled mess. The difference is that to Ni, they were always there, Ni just found them. Ti on the other hand, tied them together by hand.

lol. You're calling my brain a big mess??? hmmph.

The sad state of the NFJ. The double whammy.

 

[Costrin]

lol. You're calling my brain a big mess??? hmmph.

The sad state of the INFJ. The double whammy.

Technically I'm also calling my brain a big mess too. Except its less of a mess because the threads in my head have some substance.

 

[cascadeco]

Technically I'm also calling my brain a big mess too. Except its less of a mess because the threads in my head have some substance.

doh! Funny man.

 

[Costrin]

doh! Funny man.

Heh.

I was actually referring to this:

The threads Ni and Ne find aren't real, but then Ti and Te come along and make them real.

So in my metaphor, Ni and Ne threads are sorta ethereal, and Ti and Te threads have physical substance.

 

[nightning]

lol. You're calling my brain a big mess??? hmmph.

The sad state of the NFJ. The double whammy.

How is that a mess? All you got to do is to move the blobs in 3D until you get a symmetric pattern.

So in my metaphor, Ni and Ne threads are sorta ethereal, and Ti and Te threads have physical substance.

Love your description! Perhaps make N dotted lines and T solid thicker lines

 

[Costrin]

Bumpage because I have a question for Ni users.

When your Ni finds something, does it give you an urge to do something with that information? If so, what kind of urge?

I've noticed that when my Ne finds something, I have an urge to tell someone else. Does Ni do something similiar?

I have my theories, but I wanna hear from the source.

 

[nightning]

Bumpage because I have a question for Ni users.

When your Ni finds something, does it give you an urge to do something with that information? If so, what kind of urge?

I've noticed that when my Ne finds something, I have an urge to tell someone else. Does Ni do something similiar?

I have my theories, but I wanna hear from the source.

Unless you find a like-minded individual, no.

Ni gives you "random" connections. Just because you see it doesn't mean other people can also see it. It can be extremely difficult to explain to somebody else just what is so fascinating about something... and how it all works because it's so darn convoluted. A is connected to B and B is connected to C, A and C are share these relations, and that pattern of relationship is exactly like that for E,F,G. Because the pattern is there, the solution for E,F,G can probably be modified for A,B,C. How to modify it? Well that's related to H,I,J...

An explanation is virtually impossible. The other person cannot see all the connections you see because they don't share the same knowledge/experience as you do. To try to explain everything will take too much time... even if you try, you probably wouldn't be able to get all the nuisances across right.

Oppose to Ne... Ne gives you a much simpler idea. A + B -> C. That is explainable... and the idea often is a prompt for some action to be carried out with an objective in mind.

 

[Costrin]

Unless you find a like-minded individual, no.

Ni gives you "random" connections. Just because you see it doesn't mean other people can also see it. It can be extremely difficult to explain to somebody else just what is so fascinating about something... and how it all works because it's so darn convoluted. A is connected to B and B is connected to C, A and C are share these relations, and that pattern of relationship is exactly like that for E,F,G. Because the pattern is there, the solution for E,F,G can probably be modified for A,B,C. How to modify it? Well that's related to H,I,J...

An explanation is virtually impossible. The other person cannot see all the connections you see because they don't share the same knowledge/experience as you do. To try to explain everything will take too much time... even if you try, you probably wouldn't be able to get all the nuisances across right.

Oppose to Ne... Ne gives you a much simpler idea. A + B -> C. That is explainable... and the idea often is a prompt for some action to be carried out with an objective in mind.

Does Ni urge you to do things other than tell other people?

 

[nightning]

Does Ni urge you to do things other than tell other people?

Depends... sometimes it's just the satisfaction of being able to sit back and see it. Other times, it gives you the solution to a problem (or at least the approach to take) and that prompts me to get cracking on it. Rarely do I tell people more than the fact that I'm happy because I've figured it out. Like a 1-2 sentence vague condensed description that makes sense to me but probably means nothing to the listener. Then I run off with a ridiculous smile of my face.

 

[Kyrielle]

Bumpage because I have a question for Ni users.

When your Ni finds something, does it give you an urge to do something with that information? If so, what kind of urge?

I've noticed that when my Ne finds something, I have an urge to tell someone else. Does Ni do something similiar?

I have my theories, but I wanna hear from the source.

Well, when I come up with an idea, I have the urge to make that idea a reality. Whatever that idea may be. If it's a complex existential realisation, I may want to make some kind of physical respresentation of it. Not for other people, but for myself, as a way to further exploration and understanding of a concept. The real is much different from the conceptual, so making the conceptual real brings a new dimension of understanding and starts a new set of connections.

I think it works like this for me: Ni discovery => Se attempt at physical realisation of that discovery => Ni discovery based on Se representation...and so on and so forth like two mirrors reflecting each other.