What happens to the young artists?

[raincrow007]

Let's hear 'em.

The very first? -- A bird. Then a trauma surgeon in some wretched far away country where I'd work for free.

Instead, I wound up as an artist.

I'm surprised to see so many would-be artists listed. S'interesting.

 

[Ivy]

The very first? -- A bird. Then a trauma surgeon in some wretched far away country where I'd work for free.

Instead, I wound up as an artist.

I'm surprised to see so many would-be artists listed. S'interesting.

This reminds me of something very thought-provoking I once read. I'll paraphrase it:

Ask a classroom full of 30 first graders how many of them are artists. See how many hands go up. It'll probably be most of them.

Now ask a classroom full of third graders. The number has likely gone down, but it's still probably at least half the class.

Now ask eighth graders. A smattering of hands.

Now ask adults. One, maybe two hands will go up, if you're asking in certain areas. Some places no hands will go up.

What happens to us between childhood and adulthood that we lose that natural inclination towards the arts? Is it just a side effect of natural processes of specialization, or is education killing our artistic impulses and instincts?

 

[raincrow007]

What happens to us between childhood and adulthood that we lose that natural inclination towards the arts? Is it just a side effect of natural processes of specialization, or is education killing our artistic impulses and instincts?

Perhaps you should start a thread on it, Ivy.

I think there's a fair amount of societal conditioning and bias towards "doing something productive", and unfortunately being an artist seems to be one of those things that people find charming in theory or as a hobby, but heaven forbid one attempts to make a living actually doing it.

Honestly, I always viewed my artistic ability with a certain level of nonplussed-ness -- sort of like being able to tie my shoes. Big deal, right? I certainly never thought it was important, or even very interesting. Why the hell would I want to wind up selling sofa-sized paintings for $19.95? That sort of mentality. No idea where that particular party line of brainwashing came from -- it was just too nebulous to nail down its origin [at least for me].

It was only later that I came to the conclusion that it's a valid way of life, and just as important [perhaps even moreso because it's a fading sort of tradition] as other more lucrative professions.

Some people just need more fiscal security than others, I suppose. It's just a trade off people make, perhaps. For myself, I'd rather put a bullet in my brain before I'm stuck behind a desk. Some people call that courageous. Some call it stupidity.

At this point, I just call it my life.

 

[Ivy]

Perhaps you should start a thread on it, Ivy.

Sounds like a plan to me!

I'm gonna ruminate on your comments and come back to this.

 

[Zergling]

What happens to us between childhood and adulthood that we lose that natural inclination towards the arts? Is it just a side effect of natural processes of specialization, or is education killing our artistic impulses and instincts?

Probably the same reasons people don't end up going on to be astronauts, veterinarians, etc. They find out that these job ideas take a lot more energy and/or skills (or something else.), that they don't want ot develope.

 

[Ivy]

Probably the same reasons people don't end up going on to be astronauts, veterinarians, etc. They find out that these job ideas take a lot more energy and/or skills (or something else.), that they don't want ot develope.

I'm not sure they're comparable. I don't notice a whole lot of kids who would say that they ARE astronauts, veterinarians, etc. And those aren't professions that also lend themselves to being a hobby-- they require years and years of training and doing little or nothing else professionally. It's the same for professional artists, yes, I'm not meaning to denigrate professional artistry to the level of child's play here. But people could continue to get joy out of doing art without pursuing it as a profession.

To a kid, doing art is being an artist, and they're almost universally pleased with what they produce. Or maybe it's the process; I find that my kids almost instantly lose interest in something once they're done working on it. Once they've finished it and shown it to someone, they're on to the next thing. Maybe as adults we're too wrapped up in the results instead of the process.

 

[Kyrielle]

To a kid, doing art is being an artist...

One of those moments when children are actually correct. If you create something that you see is art, then you are an artist. That's all there is to it. However, being recognised by other people as an artist often requires something more. I suppose that would usually be what causes someone to go from an artist to a 'professional' artist. (Professional meaning someone who sells their work.)

 

[raincrow007]

One of those moments when children are actually correct. If you create something that you see is art, then you are an artist. That's all there is to it. However, being recognised by other people as an artist often requires something more. I suppose that would usually be what causes someone to go from an artist to a 'professional' artist. (Professional meaning someone who sells their work.)

I'd agree with this to a point. Kids get the whole "in the moment" aspect of being an artist a little more naturally. And I mean that in the Zen-sort-of-fortune-cookie way of in the moment; their whole being is distilled in an honest sort of fleeting focus when they make something. That's harder to capture later on when one is more jaded to the nature of existence, I think.

Of course I'd like to disagree about the rest somewhat; there are plenty of artistic frauds out there doing their song and dance and garnering public attention for it. I don't think sales or flash-in-pan publicity stunts is a fair yardstick for marking the line between amateur and professional.

Unfortunately though, that tends to be the general outlook on the subject. I just tend to think there's a little more to it than that.

 

[htb]

Part of the mystery comes from a narrow understanding of those occupations of which artistry is comprised -- one that emphasizes the traditional "fine arts." While I studied under the painting department, classmates were in illustration, visual communications (market-based graphic design), advertising, interior design and even a five-year curriculum for industrial design. In the workforce, carpenters, landscapers and other craftsmen at least arguably qualify for status as artists.

Where do all the little Rembrandts go? The answer seems to be that young artists mostly turn into practical young adults, leaving art for a) those who are talented enough to live off their work, or b) those who are obstinate and starving.

 

[ygolo]

I'm not sure they're comparable. I don't notice a whole lot of kids who would say that they ARE astronauts, veterinarians, etc. And those aren't professions that also lend themselves to being a hobby-- they require years and years of training and doing little or nothing else professionally. It's the same for professional artists, yes, I'm not meaning to denigrate professional artistry to the level of child's play here. But people could continue to get joy out of doing art without pursuing it as a profession.

To a kid, doing art is being an artist, and they're almost universally pleased with what they produce. Or maybe it's the process; I find that my kids almost instantly lose interest in something once they're done working on it. Once they've finished it and shown it to someone, they're on to the next thing. Maybe as adults we're too wrapped up in the results instead of the process.

I am not going to speculate on what happens to most kids without the aid of statistics, because I've proven myself to be a horrible judge of what is "common" among people. I have somehow managed to surround my slef with people who are not common for most of my life.

I agree with the other statements made, in a way. I still do consider myself an artist (whose "media" changes from moment to moment). But, I wouldn't raise my hand if I were asked "Who here is an artist?" in most cicumstances. Because, I know in most circumstances, there will be a "proximate meaning" to their words. In most cases, I am a horrible guesser at these arbritrary proximate meanings, so I will be very conservative in including myself in the categories the words conote (e.g. "artist").

Not that anyone would ask the question, but I would not raise my hand if people asked "Who here is not an artist?" either. Since the "proximate meaning" of "not an artist" will also be interpreted conservatively.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Ivy]

I guess I wasn't even thinking so much of adults who go on to work in art-related fields. Does a person have to make money to be an artist? Isn't there room in art for hobby artists who are, let's face it, never going to sell their work, but enjoy doing it?

I am not going to speculate on what happens to most kids without the aid of statistics, because I've proven myself to be a horrible judge of what is "common" among people. I have somehow managed to surround my slef with people who are not common for most of my life.

I agree with the other statements made, in a way. I still do consider myself an artist (whose "media" changes from moment to moment). But, I wouldn't raise my hand if I were asked "Who here is an artist?" in most cicumstances. Because, I know in most circumstances, there will be a "proximate meaning" to their words. In most cases, I am a horrible guesser at these arbritrary proximate meanings, so I will be very conservative in including myself in the categories the words conote (e.g. "artist").

Not that anyone would ask the question, but I would not raise my hand if people asked "Who here is not an artist?" either. Since the "proximate meaning" of "not an artist" will also be interpreted conservatively.

I hope that made sense.

It does make sense. Do you think there are as many adults who enjoy doing art but wouldn't answer "yes" to "are you an artist" as there are kids who fancy themselves artists?

 

[ygolo]

I guess I wasn't even thinking so much of adults who go on to work in art-related fields. Does a person have to make money to be an artist? Isn't there room in art for hobby artists who are, let's face it, never going to sell their work, but enjoy doing it?

Do you mean by "art", painting, sculpting, drawing, etc as an activity (work or play)?

It does make sense. Do you think there are as many adults who enjoy doing art but wouldn't answer "yes" to "are you an artist" as there are kids who fancy themselves artists?

Not if you mean painting, sculpting, drawing, etc.

Kids get exposed to more and more things as they grow up. Pure painting, and sclupting and the like may get replaced with making and flying model airplanes, creating little electronic circuits to play with, playing with POV-ray on the computer(art?), creating computer games with whatever forms of graphics they come up with, and mostly likely playing video games other people make, or socializing on instant messanger, texting, or forums .

The short of it is people get exposed to more things as they get older, and are less likely to choose painting, sculpting, or drawing (whatever "art" is) as they have more choices.

In addition, as people become adults, they have to find ways to support themselves, and will have less time for leisure activity in general because of potentially demanding jobs (which I think is a real shame).

 

[raincrow007]

Part of the mystery comes from a narrow understanding of those occupations of which artistry is comprised -- one that emphasizes the traditional "fine arts."

Oooh, I'm glad you brought up the mystery thing. I'll have more to say on that later, but for now my mysterious ass has a shitty opening reception to attend.

Quick! Somebody liquor up the introvert!

 

[Recluse]

raincrow007,

At first glance, I thought your avatar was a silhouette of the ponytailed head of a child peeking over a chain link fence. Then I noticed your user name. . . Yikes! I need to get some sleep.

 

[Randomnity]

I paint and draw reasonably well but I don't call myself an artist, because it's neither my career nor my passion. It's just something I do for fun (or out of boredom) every so often.

I never wanted to be a professional artist, even though I always enjoyed art in various forms and I was praised for my artistic creations from an early age. I always knew that I needed a more secure/lucrative career. I'd imagine that's the case for most kids, and I don't think that's a bad thing...aren't there more than enough mediocre artists around?

 

[Mercurial]

I tend to think it's an inhibition thing. People filter out what they express increasingly with age.

 

[htb]

I'll have more to say on that later, but for now my mysterious ass has a shitty opening reception to attend.

What does this have to do with laxati -- ah, right, right...

 

[raincrow007]

What does this have to do with laxati -- ah, right, right...

You turd!

I'm completely [to continue with the horrid punning] wiped out from the weekend. I'd post something interesting on the topic, but I'm pretty sure at this point whatever I'd write would just be complete drivel.

God only knows what lame memes I released into the public in the name of good ol' fashioned money grubbin'.

Crap.

 

[htb]

Since I'm not your mother, I won't make you sit there until you produce. Come back when you're ready.

As an incentive, I promise to end scatalogical plays on words, though that's probably also a civil obligation.

 

[Sahara]

I'm not sure they're comparable. I don't notice a whole lot of kids who would say that they ARE astronauts, veterinarians, etc. And those aren't professions that also lend themselves to being a hobby-- they require years and years of training and doing little or nothing else professionally. It's the same for professional artists, yes, I'm not meaning to denigrate professional artistry to the level of child's play here. But people could continue to get joy out of doing art without pursuing it as a profession.

To a kid, doing art is being an artist, and they're almost universally pleased with what they produce. Or maybe it's the process; I find that my kids almost instantly lose interest in something once they're done working on it. Once they've finished it and shown it to someone, they're on to the next thing. Maybe as adults we're too wrapped up in the results instead of the process.

I would have thought it was more to do with realising that he/she isn;t that talented in art as he/she grew older and learned what real standards of art are?

I loved art as a child, but soon realised that I wasn't talented enough to make it as an artist, to me it's eaither an amazing piece of work, or it's crap, there is no inbetween, and since mine wasn;t amazing it wasn;t right for me.

Same goes with all the professions I once dreamed of being, some life got in the way and some, like art, were simply my realisation that I wasn;t naturally talented at it.