How much unspontaneous is too unspontaneous?

[Virtual ghost]

How would you react if I have done something similar to you?


Once two other guys (I would say ExTP and xNTP) wanted to play RISK 2210 with me and I have accepted the challenge. But I wasn't fair in that challenge (actually it was a challenge for me for them it was just a game).
But since I had a RISK 2210 and I was relatively new to this game plus I wanted to win at all costs. I have opened the game on my table and started to plan my moves since this version of risk allows you much more planning.
I have counted all the cards that give you special abilties and I have calcualted the probability of getting a card that alows me to use certain ability and where would be smart to place my troops at a start and how to arrange them. Plus how much energy(money) will I have in a certain moment.
So I have planned and calculated many possibilities for hours and I finally ended my planning around 4AM. If someone wants I can explain in more detail

Next day that wasn't actually a game, it was more like genocide. In 5 turns I have managed to wipe out both of them of the chart and capture all 69 territories. In the end those two guys were shocked and asked "How? How did you do this, Damn it?" So I have shown them my strategy and how I planned until 4 AM.

The reaction in general was like "What a hell is wrong with you?"
Even today they are saying things "Just don't plan anything, OK?" as a sarcasm about what happened.




To me this is one of the lifes best pleasures, I enjoy calculating possiblities and use this in a way that others do not expect. When others think that there is just something random going on they are usually wrong since I don't even open my mouth before I take a look on how those words can be use against me. What doesn't mean that I will not "risk" sometimes.
From time to time I show myself to others and they find it somewhat disturbing that someone around them calculates so much and jet the process is not visible. Since introversion hides everything.



One philosophical question for the end


If you are planning not to plan, are you planning?

(what is sometimes best strategy)

 

[Lady_X]

honestly...it would take every last drop of fun out of it for me if you played that way...i don't think i'd do it more then once.
might be fun for you to play with someone who also did it that way though.

and no...i don't plan not to plan...it's just not thought of in that case...i either plan or i don't.

 

[ajblaise]

Never play board games with INTJs.

 

[Lady_X]

^^^ haha...i don't think i will! damn!

 

[Grayscale]

there is nothing wrong with planning, but the point where it becomes micro-management is where you end up losing in terms of cost vs. benefit.

your purpose was to win the game, their purpose was to enjoy themselves playing a board game. they probably dont think that spending hours of planning to win something meant for fun is a good use of time, but you do. a fine disagreement, except here, as you said, the game ended shortly and was largely unenjoyed by your friends. so they probably think you're missing the point (and I wouldnt disagree with them) which resulted in a negative experience on their part.

ironically, i have met lots of intelligent people who are effectively unintelligent, because their logic is sound but limited, and they miss the bigger picture. do you want to win a board game, or win the favor of your friends? has much anything of consequence solidified out of efforts to prove your capabilities to others? smart people are not always those that are mentally endowed, but those who think things through completely.

 

[Totenkindly]

Next day that wasn't actually a game, it was more like genocide. In 5 turns I have managed to wipe out both of them of the chart and capture all 69 territories. In the end those two guys were shocked and asked "How? How did you do this, Damn it?" So I have shown them my strategy and how I planned until 4 AM.

The reaction in general was like "What a hell is wrong with you?" Even today they are saying things "Just don't plan anything, OK?" as a sarcasm about what happened.

Well, it's supposed to be a game.

Part of that means it should be "fun."

Perhaps fun for you is being totally in control of a situation so that everything happens just the way you'd like it to and no one else can do anything.

That's not "fun" for a lot of people.. at least "xxxP" people. We think it's more fun to enter a situation with a repertoire of skills and interact with others and then leverage our skills on the fly. Ingenuity, NOT control, is what is "fun."

The degree of control you decided to impose on this "game" made it not a game at all. There was no real interaction. You machinated everything.

If people want to do that, just program a computer to simulate gameplay, and then no one has to waste their time investing in gameplay.

If you had a million dollars invested in the outcome
Or if it was a real war with lives at stake
Then sure, it demands that level of control and manipulation.

But it was supposed to be a "game."

That's how I would have experienced this.

When your friends tell you "no more planning," it might sound humorous.
That's probably what I'd say too, in order to maintain the friendship.
But if you didn't listen, I'd be serious enough to never want to play anything with you ever again.

That's how annoying this sort of behavior is.
(Just telling you, so that you don't do it again and possibly lose your friends.)

If you are planning not to plan, are you planning?

Uh... you don't have to plan to not plan.
You just have to not plan.
(No planning involved there.)

 

[kyuuei]

^_^;; Mayhap plan for things that require attention.. certainly a boardgame requires little, but can accept a lot. Should it be a tournament, I'd say you were definitely in the right frame of mind! Only your friends are not your enemies (save the pretend players in Risk) and you gain absolutely nothing by winning. That's a lot of talent and effort wasted with nothing to gain by it... I generally only work that hard toward something if my ends meet my means.

 

[ptgatsby]

If you are planning not to plan, are you planning?

You won the battle and lost the war.

Next time, plan on how to have fun with your friends. I suggest pizza and pop, but if you need more time to plan your strategy, I suggest the phonebook.

 

[Athenian200]

Uh... you don't have to plan to not plan.
You just have to not plan.
(No planning involved there.)

I would disagree with that. I kind of DO have to plan not to plan. You're not a J, and I guess you just don't get it. Oh, well... you might be lucky that you don't get it. Who knows?

 

[dyspraxion]

Oh wow... That reminds me of a time I was playing Monopoly. Whenever someone started losing, I'd offer to buy their properties for 2, 3, 4 times what they were worth. The other players would try convincing whoever I was talking to not to sell me anything, but I made sure to hit them at their most desperate.

Everyone else gave up when I had over 7,000 dollars and hotels on at least 2/3 of the properties, including the most expensive... 5, or so. It was disappointing that they wouldn't finish playing. As if I hadn't really won if I didn't get everything.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have posted this just to see what will happen. I was interested in how much Ps will be annoyed with this kind of thinking and I am glad to see Ps stand against this.

I have also lied that the game was just an innocent socialization it was actually small tournament without prize. But this wasn't what they had in mind.

Actually I am quite familiar with logic that you are telling me and I see that people didn't link the story and question/comment in the end.

As very strong J I actually see the difference between planning and deliberate not planning. Real spontaneity is foreign to me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have one more question and this time there is no games involved.

Would you be ok with this in a case that you don't know that I have plans?

I mean, you are losing a battle in every possible aspect and by statistic that is
unlikely. Would you take it as any other defeat? Something like bad luck.

 

[dyspraxion]

Would you be ok with this in a case that you don't know that I have plans?

I mean, you are losing a battle in every possible aspect and by statistic that is unlikely. Would you take it as any other defeat? Something like bad luck.

I'd keep trying my best to win until I was defeated entirely. If I found out that you'd planned out how to win, well, it would have been deserved. I doubt I'd have gone to that much trouble.

I'd probably get competitive and challenge you to play again until I won.

 

[Amargith]

I have one more question and this time there is no games involved.

Would you be ok with this in a case that you don't know that I have plans?

I mean, you are losing a battle in every possible aspect and by statistic that is
unlikely. Would you take it as any other defeat? Something like bad luck.

I'm more likely to give up and try to team up with you next time.

 

[Jack Flak]

Monopoly is a horrible game. Victory is decided an hour before it would be official, and the winner's grinning, counting cash, while everyone else is trying to think about something else. I don't even like winning at Monopoly for this reason.

 

[INTJMom]

I have one more question and this time there is no games involved.

Would you be ok with this in a case that you don't know that I have plans?

I mean, you are losing a battle in every possible aspect and by statistic that is
unlikely. Would you take it as any other defeat? Something like bad luck.

When I was a kid, there was a boy I knew who knew all kinds of ways of taking advantage of me and tricking me.
"Heads I win, tails you lose," comes to mind.
I hated it then, and I still hate it now.
When you are sure of the outcome, it's not a fair fight.
It's cheating.

When the "contest" is based on skill and luck with no tricks involved, I consider that more fair.
Though it's not fair when an expert challenges a novice.

 

[raz]

When I was a kid, there was a boy I knew who knew all kinds of ways of taking advantage of me and tricking me.
"Heads I win, tails you lose," comes to mind.
I hated it then, and I still hate it now.
When you are sure of the outcome, it's not a fair fight.
It's cheating.

When the "contest" is based on skill and luck with no tricks involved, I consider that more fair.
Though it's not fair when an expert challenges a novice.

You wouldn't do well on a pvp server in any MMO's, I bet.

 

[prplchknz]

did anyone smack you upside the head? If I was one of them I would. I don't care about winning or losing, but if you did that to me I'd be pissed. after all it's just a game.

 

[tenINsFJ]

lmao antisocial, I wish that story was true, I'd give you props for all that hard work. Preparation pays off. Too bad you lied. No Props.

And I'd totally do that to BTW. I play risk all the time, and I just played Stratego for the first time last night. Definitely Addicted. After 2 hours of Stratego, I went home and studied strategies for it, haha.

 

[nolla]

If you are planning not to plan, are you planning?

I am P. I have to plan to plan to plan to plan to plan.