If IP is EJ then is IP IP or can it be IJ?

[Xander]

J and P refer to extraverted activity right? Does it then necessarily follow that the opposite is true of introverted behaviour?

 

[Totenkindly]

What?

 

[Xander]

What?

IPs are EJs in that we both have judging first. Similarities like assessing a piece of information before we include it in our musings etc.

What I'm wondering is whether the opposite is always true. If J and P refer to extraversion solely then is there a possibility of two subtypes of each type?

 

[Nocapszy]

It's no wonder you think house is a J.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Also, you spelt behavior wrong.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

IPs are EJs in that we both have judging first.

I got you here, but everything else leaves me asking questions for one reason or another. I think you just phrased your questions really strangely.

 

[Xander]

It's no wonder you think house is a J.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Also, you spelt behavior wrong.

Colonial

ENTJ Te Ni
INTP Ti Ne

Judging first.

ENTP Ne Ti
INTJ Ni Te

Perceiving first.

That's just function order though. I'm wondering firstly if there is introverted J & P and if so is it necessarily to opposite of the extraverted one or should there in fact be a split in the types?

It's further thinking on the differences within types and how it can be categorised better.

 

[Xander]

I got you here, but everything else leaves me asking questions for one reason or another. I think you just phrased your questions really strangely.

Strangely? Me? Nah... it's definitely you lot. Yeah you... the rest of humanity. You're weird.

Okay a cut down version is "Is there a J/P descriptor for introverted behaviour?"

Edit :
I should expand really... I've noted before that Js display less internal consistency than Ps yet their external consistency is beyond question. Almost like they allow internal processes a lot more slack, more so than Ps. I've not compiled a study or anything but it doesn't seem a reliable result. I've seen it go the other way as well, hence the question as to whether this could be a subtype and whether it's a useful observation or not.

 

[Travo7]

I'm not really sure I understand your question, but yeah, the p and j indicate if your primary extraverted function is a perceiving one (s or n) or a judging one (t or f). For example, an INFJ's dominant function is a perceiving or irrational function (Ni), as is the ENFP's (Ne). However, the INFJs primary extraverted function is feeling, which is a judging or rational function, hence the j. And the P in ENFP comes since it's primary funtion (intuition) is extraverted.

Did I completely misunderstand your question? If so could you explain a little?

 

[Nocapszy]

No, I was making a point.
You don't know what you're talking about.
I don't even know how to correct it.

 

[Xander]

No, I was making a point.
You don't know what you're talking about.
I don't even know how to correct it.

My thinking may be flipped, that is true but I'm not falling that far from the tree it's just you can see why I jumped in the first place. No need for arguments.

Oh and the was because you corrected my English. I'm not American bucko

 

[raz]

Well, the way I figured it out is this:

Sensing and Intuition are perceiving functions. Thinking and Feeling are Judging functions. The extraverted cognitive processes out of the dominant/auxiliary processes will be the preferred lifestyle.

For example, an INFJ has a judging preference. That means their judging function will be extraverted. So, they have Extraverted Feeling as either their dominant or auxiliary. Since the dominant/auxiliary have to balance each other, the INFJ will introvert the opposite of their extraverted function, so they have Introverted iNtuition.

An Introvert's dominant process will be introverted and an extravert's dominant will be extraverted. So, the INFJ has Ni Fe as dominant/auxiliary. In the case of an extravert, say an ENFP, the ENFP will extravert their perceiving function as dominant, so Ne. Then their auxiliary will be the opposite, Fi.

Here are more examples:

IP:
Introverted Judging, Extraverted Perceiving

IJ:
Introverted Perceiving, Extraverted Judging

EJ:
Extraverted Judging, Introverted Perceiving

EP:
Extraverted Perceiving, Introverted Judging

IP's and EJ's share a judging dominant. IJ's and EP's share a perceiving dominant. However, their preferred lifestyle, a Judging or Perceiving function will always be extraverted, so that's what we see from the outside.

 

[nightning]

Sure Xander, you can split them anyway you want. *hands you a knife*

Exactly what Raz says

dominant extroverted judgers (EJ)
dominant introverted judgers (IP)
dominant extroverted perceivers (EP)
dominant introverted perceivers (IJ)

Dominant perceivers enjoy exploring ideas... but the IJs tend to keep in inside our minds. Clean desk, cluttered mind analogy. I wish that's true in reality.

 

[Xander]

I'm not really sure I understand your question, but yeah, the p and j indicate if your primary extraverted function is a perceiving one (s or n) or a judging one (t or f). For example, an INFJ's dominant function is a perceiving or irrational function (Ni), as is the ENFP's (Ne). However, the INFJs primary extraverted function is feeling, which is a judging or rational function, hence the j. And the P in ENFP comes since it's primary funtion (intuition) is extraverted.

Did I completely misunderstand your question? If so could you explain a little?

Possibly. I'm thinking my thoughts got flipped. J and P just apply to extraversion. They aren't really anything themselves. They merely represent the larger pattern, hence I'm on a fast road to a brick wall...

Never mind...


See I made the mistake of treating them as aspects of a personality instead of just notations on the pattern of the aspects themselves.

Thanks for trying though.

 

[Xander]

Sure Xander, you can split them anyway you want. *hands you a knife*

Exactly what Raz says

dominant extroverted judgers (EJ)
dominant introverted judgers (IP)
dominant extroverted perceivers (EP)
dominant introverted perceivers (IJ)

Dominant perceivers enjoy exploring ideas... but the IJs tend to keep in inside our minds. Clean desk, cluttered mind analogy. I wish that's true in reality.

Oh don't talk to me about IxxJs keeping it all in... could murder a couple of them for that alone!!

 

[Cimarron]

Yes, this is what really interests me. Sounds like the real question is: "Why should we believe this is really how it works?" (This is something Jack Flak examined with his system, if I understand what he was saying.)




Maybe thinking about it this way would help us:

Te, Se, Fe, Ne as interactions (between the person and someone/something else), and since Extroverts tend to interact, these functions tend to dominate.

Ti, Si, Fi, Ni as kept within our minds (not interactions), and since Introverts tend away from interaction, these functions tend to dominate. Also, for Introverts the "Xe" functions tend not to dominate, because of the tendency away from interaction.

(repetitive)

So when typing Extroverts, we could look at how they interact.

But when typing Introverts, we can't look at that, because that's not the focus of their world. We could look at how they mull things over in their mind.

 

[alcea rosea]

J and P refer to extraverted activity right? Does it then necessarily follow that the opposite is true of introverted behaviour?

This made me laugh because I didn't get it and it souded like one of those mathemathical functions that is too complicated for my poor old Ti.

 

[Xander]

Yes, this is what really interests me. Sounds like the real question is: "Why should we believe this is really how it works?" (This is something Jack Flak examined with his system, if I understand what he was saying.)

You have a marvellous way of making brain refuse sound like productive matter

It was partially a challenge to the assumption. It still strikes me as odd that they note extraverted behaviour with a specific letter but then I guess that is what is transmitted to others.

Maybe thinking about it this way would help us:

Te, Se, Fe, Ne as interactions (between the person and someone/something else), and since Extroverts tend to interact, these functions tend to dominate.

Ti, Si, Fi, Ni as kept within our minds (not interactions), and since Introverts tend away from interaction, these functions tend to dominate. Also, for Introverts the "Xe" functions tend not to dominate, because of the tendency away from interaction.

(repetitive)

So when typing Extroverts, we could look at how they interact.

But when typing Introverts, we can't look at that, because that's not the focus of their world. We could look at how they mull things over in their mind.

Absofrackinlutely!

 

[Xander]

This made me laugh because I didn't get it and it souded like one of those mathemathical functions that is too complicated for my poor old Ti.

You hear of a mobius strip? Well that's what it was except that on the return journey I gunned down my original thinking with a .50 cal

 

[raz]

Your avatar seems to fit an INTP well.

 

[Xander]

Your avatar seems to fit an INTP well.

Who me?

I doubt the guy is an INTP but yeah I picked it cause it seems to fit well.

Thanks.