A Schnitzel
WTF is this dude saying?
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,155
- MBTI Type
- INTP
Sure you can say it's maturity vs. immaturity, but how is this supposed to help the OP?
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[MBTI General] Can INTP Sis and ESTJ bro ever get along?
- Thread starter livinglife
- Start date
Sure you can say it's maturity vs. immaturity, but how is this supposed to help the OP?
I dunno, the question was "can INTP sis and ESTJ bro ever get along". The answer is yes, as long as one or both of them grow up
Probably true.
Giggly
No moss growing on me
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
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- MBTI Type
- iSFj
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- 2
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- sx/so
livinglife, what a very sad situation. I'm sorry that you're going through that with your brothers. It must be hurtful. I think you did the right thing in putting some of the responsiblity on them though. Sadly, talking and explaining just doesn't work with some people because they lack emphathy and compassion. They have to walk a mile in your shoes, so to speak. But I think that what you are wondering is if he will ever acknowledge your efforts and apologize. Well, that is completely dependent on his level of pride. And all types can be prideful. He may apologize and he may not, but because you can't predict if he will or not, I really think that it would be healthier for you to let it go, rather than carry around the emotional burden of this. In other words, do you think that could put him out of your mind, and if he does acknowledge and apologize to you, let it be a surprise?
I'm sorry that you're going through that with your brothers. It must be hurtful. I think you did the right thing in putting some of the responsiblity on them though. Sadly, talking and explaining just doesn't work with some people because they lack emphathy and compassion. They have to walk a mile in your shoes, so to speak. But I think that what you are wondering is if he will ever acknowledge your efforts and apologize. Well, that is completely dependent on his level of pride. And all types can be prideful. He may apologize and he may not, but because you can't predict if he will or not, I really think that it would be healthier for you to let it go, rather than carry around the emotional burden of this. In other words, do you think that could put him out of your mind, and if he does acknowledge and apologize to you, let it be a surprise?
EJCC
The Devil of TypoC
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 19,129
- MBTI Type
- ESTJ
- Enneagram
- 1w9
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/so
Wow. That's awful, livinglife. I empathize completely. This would be a much easier situation if 1. your brother didn't have issues, and 2. the two of you didn't have an uncomfortable history (i.e. not the best relationship).
I have an idea as to what you might do, which could be good (because I'm also an ESTJ and therefore have a semblance of insight) or bad (because I'm not the best at solving interpersonal issues...).
I can tell you right away that he made those stupid criticisms of your care for your mom because he desperately wanted control of the situation. He was convinced that he could do better at the job than you (for whatever reason). But to answer the OP... I'm inclined to say yes, or at least maybe. But one question must be answered in order to salvage the relationship between you two: "What's his PROBLEM?"
As an ESTJ, I know that we are very blunt people. We generally don't like to lie, or beat around the bush, or sugarcoat information to make people feel better. Generally, if you ask an ESTJ a question, they will answer it truthfully (and if they try to lie, they'll most likely suck at it). So (and this might be an absolutely terrible idea - you know your brother better than I do): ask him what he thinks of you and why, or something to that extent that's phrased better, and with something leading up to it. If he's like me, he will answer the question fully and truthfully (that is, if he even wants to communicate with you, and if he doesn't, my idea is pointless). From there, you guys can figure out what's been going on historically with your relationship, possibly debate a little, have a good cry, and come to a mutual understanding.
p.s. on the whole type relationship argument, I side with evan. Those relationships look good on paper, but there are loads of other factors to take into account.
EDIT: In response to Hmm, your brother probably either 1. doesn't think he's done anything wrong and therefore won't apologize, or 2. is embarrassed and/or full of pride and... therefore won't apologize. If you speak to him bluntly, logically and matter-of-factly about it, you might be able to get that answer from him. ESTJs and INTPs work great together when they're having logical conversations about FACTS (and I know because I have an INTP dad, and some of our most fun and lively conversations have been about magazine articles and scientific studies and such).
ANOTHER EDIT: Sorry about this, but I just reread the OP and how, to your father, your brother was always wrong and you were never wrong. (I missed that part...
) He's probably trying to get back at you for being miss perfect... maybe he's trying to prove himself as well?
I have an idea as to what you might do, which could be good (because I'm also an ESTJ and therefore have a semblance of insight) or bad (because I'm not the best at solving interpersonal issues...).
I can tell you right away that he made those stupid criticisms of your care for your mom because he desperately wanted control of the situation. He was convinced that he could do better at the job than you (for whatever reason). But to answer the OP... I'm inclined to say yes, or at least maybe. But one question must be answered in order to salvage the relationship between you two: "What's his PROBLEM?"
As an ESTJ, I know that we are very blunt people. We generally don't like to lie, or beat around the bush, or sugarcoat information to make people feel better. Generally, if you ask an ESTJ a question, they will answer it truthfully (and if they try to lie, they'll most likely suck at it). So (and this might be an absolutely terrible idea - you know your brother better than I do): ask him what he thinks of you and why, or something to that extent that's phrased better, and with something leading up to it. If he's like me, he will answer the question fully and truthfully (that is, if he even wants to communicate with you, and if he doesn't, my idea is pointless). From there, you guys can figure out what's been going on historically with your relationship, possibly debate a little, have a good cry, and come to a mutual understanding.
p.s. on the whole type relationship argument, I side with evan. Those relationships look good on paper, but there are loads of other factors to take into account.
EDIT: In response to Hmm, your brother probably either 1. doesn't think he's done anything wrong and therefore won't apologize, or 2. is embarrassed and/or full of pride and... therefore won't apologize. If you speak to him bluntly, logically and matter-of-factly about it, you might be able to get that answer from him. ESTJs and INTPs work great together when they're having logical conversations about FACTS (and I know because I have an INTP dad, and some of our most fun and lively conversations have been about magazine articles and scientific studies and such).
ANOTHER EDIT: Sorry about this, but I just reread the OP and how, to your father, your brother was always wrong and you were never wrong. (I missed that part...
) He's probably trying to get back at you for being miss perfect... maybe he's trying to prove himself as well?
livinglife
New member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2008
- Messages
- 6
- MBTI Type
- intp
Why is there a couch on my car?
Thanks everyone for your replies. And thanks for your insights, EJCC. A lot of what you said rang true. I still chose, for a long time, NOT to ask my bro what he thought was wrong with me, partly because I preferred not to reopen contact with him, and in part because I was afraid I'd latch onto any truthful parts way too much and get way too hurt.
But a month or so ago we did need to communicate for Mom's sake. Then an opportunity arose when we were on a conference call with a health care worker, and I took it. He basically said he didn't trust me to make good and timely decisions on my mothers health. He went over some decisions I had made about our father and why he didn't like them. That gave me the opportunity to explain again those past decisions and why I still stand by them. (I I had discussed those decisions with him at the time.) In any case, with that trust problem out in the open, I was able to tell him that I firmly believe I am doing a good job (Mom is still in her own home and doing well!) but that if he really didn't trust me in this important area, I would relinquish the medical health proxy, if he would come home to take over. Well, that was the end of that.
Except for the surprise I found when I stopped up at my mother's a few weeks ago after my brother had visited her. I found that two pieces of a sectional couch had been put on top of the car I had just bought (and was storing in my mom's garage.) When I moved out last summer, I had left the couch in an unused room upstairs. Although my brother still has a roomful of childhood stuff still in his old bedroom, I'm guessing he decided my couch didn't belong. Anyway, I wrote back asking why there was a couch on my car. Told him I'd keep my email open for another week or so in the hope that he has an explanation better than the ones I could come up with, but that if I didn't hear from him, I thought we better go back to no contact. And so it goes. I never heard from him.
A part of me does feel badly for him. He has this need to be in control. He's not best suited to be in control because he lives all the way across the county. It would be very difficult to get a comparable job close to home. He doesn't want me to be in control because he doesn't trust me.
I'm willing to work with him, but I'm not willing to let him tell me what to do from all across the country when I'm right here looking at the problem -- especially when it involves Mom's health. And yeah, I've become mad and resentful toward him, which doesn't help. And so it goes. Thanks for letting me clarify my thoughts by writing. And again, thanks for your posts.
-- feeling rather down lately, but trying to LiveLife well
Thanks everyone for your replies. And thanks for your insights, EJCC. A lot of what you said rang true. I still chose, for a long time, NOT to ask my bro what he thought was wrong with me, partly because I preferred not to reopen contact with him, and in part because I was afraid I'd latch onto any truthful parts way too much and get way too hurt.
But a month or so ago we did need to communicate for Mom's sake. Then an opportunity arose when we were on a conference call with a health care worker, and I took it. He basically said he didn't trust me to make good and timely decisions on my mothers health. He went over some decisions I had made about our father and why he didn't like them. That gave me the opportunity to explain again those past decisions and why I still stand by them. (I I had discussed those decisions with him at the time.) In any case, with that trust problem out in the open, I was able to tell him that I firmly believe I am doing a good job (Mom is still in her own home and doing well!) but that if he really didn't trust me in this important area, I would relinquish the medical health proxy, if he would come home to take over. Well, that was the end of that.
Except for the surprise I found when I stopped up at my mother's a few weeks ago after my brother had visited her. I found that two pieces of a sectional couch had been put on top of the car I had just bought (and was storing in my mom's garage.) When I moved out last summer, I had left the couch in an unused room upstairs. Although my brother still has a roomful of childhood stuff still in his old bedroom, I'm guessing he decided my couch didn't belong. Anyway, I wrote back asking why there was a couch on my car. Told him I'd keep my email open for another week or so in the hope that he has an explanation better than the ones I could come up with, but that if I didn't hear from him, I thought we better go back to no contact. And so it goes. I never heard from him.
A part of me does feel badly for him. He has this need to be in control. He's not best suited to be in control because he lives all the way across the county. It would be very difficult to get a comparable job close to home. He doesn't want me to be in control because he doesn't trust me.
I'm willing to work with him, but I'm not willing to let him tell me what to do from all across the country when I'm right here looking at the problem -- especially when it involves Mom's health. And yeah, I've become mad and resentful toward him, which doesn't help. And so it goes. Thanks for letting me clarify my thoughts by writing. And again, thanks for your posts.
-- feeling rather down lately, but trying to LiveLife well
