Am I a sensor or intuitive?

[proteanmix]

Ok you guys, I need some help. I don't know if I'm a sensor or intuitive anymore. This post is inspired by an excellent post on Ptgatsby's blog.

Aside from trying to figure out what my pure default position is, I found a previous post Jennifer made about sensing and intuiting. I have no doubt that I'm an EFJ, but now I'm confused whether my perceiving function is introverted sensing or introverted intuition.

Here's where I stack up on S and N according to the info in Jen's post:

Sensing
tangible
likes exact facts
sensible
focus on effectiveness
pragmatic
results oriented
realistic
empirical
facts are valuable
accepting

Intuiting
figurative
symbolic
likes original ideas
imaginative
focuses on novelty
ideas oriented
enjoys knowledge for its own sake
facts make patterns
big picture
values inventiveness

Deciding between which of the descriptors is not just a matter of simple forced choice. I feel like I do these things equally and I don't know which ones are my default. For example, I like to learn things just to know but I also like to apply what I've learned. When reading descriptions, deciding between the ESFJ and ENFJ is a less difficult, I think ENFJ is more accurate but my perception could be skewed because of dominant Fe. I mean look at the descriptions, would you rather be this

People love ENFJs. They are fun to be with, and truly understand and love people. They are typically very straight-forward and honest. Usually ENFJs exude a lot of self-confidence, and have a great amount of ability to do many different things. They are generally bright, full of potential, energetic and fast-paced. They are usually good at anything which captures their interest.

Or this:

ESFJs respect and believe in the laws and rules of authority, and believe that others should do so as well. They're traditional, and prefer to do things in the established way, rather than venturing into unchartered territory. Their need for security drives their ready acceptance and adherence to the policies of the established system. This tendency may cause them to sometimes blindly accept rules without questioning or understanding them.

Such a hard decision.
I'm not trying to figure out which description fits me more accurately, I want to figure what my perceiving function is. I can read descriptions on my own and I have at least a dozen books chock full of descriptions and I've reached the conclusion that the descriptions are bullshit.

I also have been doing some research in the NEO-PI (five factor model) and looking at the openness scores. I took a web version of the test and had high openness, but I don't know if I was testing to get a certain score.

Another thing is I may be resistant to actually being a sensor. Pt went over the reasons in his blog, but when I think about it if I'm a sensor, it's going to take me a while to break the stereotypes that have accumulated in my mind about sensors. Even though I've railed so loudly against sensor stereotypes I still very much see it in action IRL and that scares me to think that I may be part of that group, that people may view me in that way. I don't think being a sensor is bad as long as I'm not it, get it? I know, quite hypocritical of me. When you suddenly become part of that group then you keep thinking to yourself, hey that's not me! Or at least I do, and I don't want to be labeled in that way. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being a sensor, but when I see Sensors Behaving Badly, I want to run in the opposite direction, although I feel the same way when intuitives do it. Since I don't have enough intuitives in my life to make it obvious the only times I see Intuitives Behaving Badly is on MBTI forums. I know how the internet causes people to do things that they normally wouldn't do so such more for that.

In the end I know that it's going to be my choice and nobody else can tell me what I am or what I'm not. I'm just curious about other people's input.

 

[nottaprettygal]

A couple of the areas in Jen's post that are used to describe Sensors seem like they could also be used to describe Judgers as well. Practicality and being realistic seem common to both Sensing and Intuitive Js.

So. . . I guess that doesn't help.

 

[Totenkindly]

A couple of the areas in Jen's post that are used to describe Sensors seem like they could also be used to describe Judgers as well. Practicality and being realistic seem common to both Sensing and Intuitive Js.

You're right, there's very much some overlap there; it seems to be one of the typical points of confusion.

I don't know, PM. Couldn't you just be happy being an ExFJ? <hopeful>
no, i guess not... you're a J, not a P...

I will think more about it. Motivation is as important as behavior; sometimes outer behavior can overlap, but the motivation helps determine what functions are being used. I had completely forgotten about posting that chart. It's very much a generalized "either/or" style chart, which is hard to apply unless one is extreme.

Regardless of which you are, PM, I just wanted to say that you are a mature example of the type -- either an S with good flexibility/open-mindedness enough to respond to changing circumstances, or an N who can really seize upon opportunities with practical clarity.

 

[Athenian200]

I'm fairly sure you're an Intuitive. I'm very aware of rules and traditions at times, but I value inner visions more. Fe by nature tends to accord with customs and such. A lot of the things on your Sensing list seem to have more to do with your Extraversion, and Judging. Now tell me, are you more focused on tangible memories of the past as standards, or on visions that you feel compelled to act on or explain? Also, what do you normally test as on the personality sorters? That's how you decide.

 

[heart]

I think based on your other posts that you are an N who is very close to the border between the preferences.

I am certainly that way with the J/P preference.

ETA: You came out very close on all functions on this test, makes me think you are just well balanced between the functions.

 

[Usehername]

A couple of the areas in Jen's post that are used to describe Sensors seem like they could also be used to describe Judgers as well. Practicality and being realistic seem common to both Sensing and Intuitive Js.

So. . . I guess that doesn't help.

Yeah, also, you have to remember that the S vs. N is a gradient and thus you're going to have overlap; it's just a preference.

For instance, as an INTJ, I am pretty well balanced on these descriptors.

SENSING............................INTUITIVE

Concrete...........................Abstract
- Literal..........................- Figurative
- Tangible.........................- Symbolic
- Likes exact facts................- Likes original ideas

Realistic..........................Imaginative
- Sensible.........................- Ingenious
- Matter of fact...................- Imaginative
- Focuses on effectiveness.........- Focuses on novelty

Practical..........................Inferential
- Pragmatic........................- Scholarly
- Results-oriented.................- Ideas-oriented
- Enjoys applied interests.........- Enjoys knowledge for its own sake

Experiential.......................Theoretical
- Realistic........................- Conceptual
- Empirical........................- Big picture
- Facts are valuable experiences...- Facts make patterns

Traditional.........................Original
- Conventional......................- Unconventional
- Accepting.........................- Idiosyncratic
- Values established institutions...- Values inventiveness

My suggestion: try reading a bunch of the specific 1/16 descriptors (as in, a few different explanations of each type) and seeing what you really identify with. I really like the murraystate explanations.

 

[The Ü™]

Actually, what she has listed on Sensing is pretty much Sensing.

A Judger isn't necessarily results-oriented, and neither is the Extravert.

Judging and Perception is simply the preference for living. Judgers enjoy structure and habit, Perceivers are more adaptable and enjoy new experiences.

Now notice that structure isn't necessarily related to physical structure as in keeping things in the environment in order. Keeping the environment orderly seems to be more specifically an SJ thing. A work ethic also falls into the domain of SJ, since work is both a here-and-now and routine activity.

The NJ, on the other hand, is less conscientious about that sort of thing, but requires habit to conserve the safety of the mind. NJs resist change lest they become insane.

Note, too, that Sensors, who concentrate and are used to the here-and-now tend to be more adaptable to changing circumstances. Even the SJ has less trouble adapting, because rather than panic, they are able to adapt to the change by relating it to a past experience.

The Intuitives, want to make the changes. They exercise a certain element of creative control. The NJ, in particular, has trouble adapting, because unlike the SJ, it isn't their natural style to rely on past experience.

In the face of change, the SJ may still be cautious, but will think: "Well, I survived a change last time, I don't see why I can't survive it this time." The NJ will not normally relate their concrete experience to the here-and-now. The NJ's past experience speaks for itself and state, "Just because it worked last time doesn't mean it'll work this time." As a result, when the NJ is in the face of change out of their control, it becomes a matter of worrying what might happen. This is particularly troubling if the NJ sees the glass as half-empty.

In the case of who focuses on usefulness, I think that's more a factor of Thinking. More skeptical in nature, the Thinker is often more realistic than the Feeler and focuses on practicality regardless of S or N preference.

For example: The Thinker would probably run down the street naked if offered a million dollars (give me a break, it's an example). The Feeler would dismiss this act as immoral and/or a total lack of self-respect. The Thinker is more logical, and would think it's stupid to not do something foolish for something that would, in the end, make life easier for a while.

 

[proteanmix]

...are you more focused on tangible memories of the past as standards, or on visions that you feel compelled to act on or explain? Also, what do you normally test as on the personality sorters? That's how you decide.

I don't know, I don't feel particularly connected to the past. I rarely get nostalgic or wish to go back to some previous experience, I think I'm forward looking.

Here are some things I think may help:

• I rarely rewatch movies or TV shows, once I've watched them that's usually it for me
• I'm not very good at holding melodies or music in my memory
• I only need to go to a new place a couple of times before I remember how to get there
• I know when my body isn't doing what it normally does
• While I don't keep track of what people wear, I usually notice if someone changes their hair color or has lost weight
• I rarely read books to completion and I only skim instructions. I try to put it together first and if I mess up then I look at directions
• I'm not afraid to try new things or go new places
• While I use vivid and colorful language when I'm telling a story I tend to ramble and not get to the point very quickly
• I sometimes see people doing things. I'm not saying psychically or anything, but sometimes I get flashes of people doing stuff and when they do something similar I'm not surprised
• I like structure but I don't like routine
• I don't take very many pictures, either I remember it or I don't but I usually do
• I've had physical reactions to people that I know I'm not going to like upon meeting them, usually my stomach starts to hurt or I feel nauseous but it goes away as quickly as it came
• I have a tendency to tell people what they're going to do rather than let them do it. This isn't being bossy, I just tell them I know what they're going to do. I'm not always right.
• I overcomplicate things
• I'd rather do preventative maintenance then problem solve and I think I'm good at damage control
• I'm not a pack rat. I don't feel like I have very many emotional attachments to objects and I have a tendency to throw things away that I'll need again.
• I like repetitive things. When I worked in retail, I liked to fold the t-shirts and I like to photocopy large amounts of stuff. I thought I did this because I'd go on auto-pilot, but I don't know.
• I know if someone has moved around my stuff because it's not the way I left it

I guess that's enough for now, I tried to scan my brain for everything I could think of.

Note, too, that Sensors, who concentrate and are used to the here-and-now tend to be more adaptable to changing circumstances. Even the SJ has less trouble adapting, because rather than panic, they are able to adapt to the change by relating it to a past experience.

The Intuitives, want to make the changes. They exercise a certain element of creative control. The NJ, in particular, has trouble adapting, because unlike the SJ, it isn't their natural style to rely on past experience.

In the face of change, the SJ may still be cautious, but will think: "Well, I survived a change last time, I don't see why I can't survive it this time." The NJ will not normally relate their concrete experience to the here-and-now. The NJ's past experience speaks for itself and state, "Just because it worked last time doesn't mean it'll work this time." As a result, when the NJ is in the face of change out of their control, it becomes a matter of worrying what might happen. This is particularly troubling if the NJ sees the glass as half-empty.

If I use the example of somebody's behavior, I'm more likely to think that if they've done it repeatedly in the past there's no reason for me to think they're going to stop doing it in the future. I don't have a problem with thinking that if it worked before, there's no reason why it won't work now. To me it seems obvious to use a proven solution that fixes a problem then to start wasting time, energy, and effort on a new solution that may or may not work. Now when the old solution doesn't work I think you should be receptive to a new way of doing things and it annoys me that people try to keep doing the same thing that isn't working instead of trying something else, but the FIRST thing you should look at is what has worked well in the past and move from there.

 

[Totenkindly]

I wish I could just watch you for a day, PM, and see how you interact with people.

I do fairly well perceiving a type when I can just observe someone [holistically], but it's difficult when I just get a list (especially if some of the items are S and some are N) -- I am more interested in how the components work together and are integrated than how they stand separately.

And N's and S's tend to put out different "vibes." I know that sounds very very vague and unhelpful; but honestly, when I watch people interact with others in person, I almost immediately get either an "S" or an "N" vibe off them... There is just an expansiveness/breadth that comes with N, versus a clarity on the surrounding world that comes with S.

 

[proteanmix]

I'm abandoning hope of having this all sorted out by bedtime.

 

[Langrenus]

I'm abandoning hope of having this all sorted out by bedtime.

Think of it as a blessing. Sometimes these labels are really not helpful at all.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

PM, were you closer to your father or mother? What type do you think this parent is?

I ask this because my father is an INTP, and while growing up I really viewed myself as an introvert. Then one day someone told me "You're no introvert. In fact you're always the life of the party." But because my father and I are very similar (ENTP and INTP) I think I naturally viewed myself as an introvert and I have a lot of behaviors that are like an introvert.

So one approach you could take is if your type is similar to one of your parents then you may be mistyping yourself as too S or N because your parent was S or N and you learned the corresponding behavior from them. So which parent were you closest to and what type are they?

 

[The Ü™]

PM, were you closer to your father or mother? What type do you think this parent is?

I ask this because my father is an INTP, and while growing up I really viewed myself as an introvert. Then one day someone told me "You're no introvert. In fact you're always the life of the party." But because my father and I are very similar (ENTP and INTP) I think I naturally viewed myself as an introvert and I have a lot of behaviors that are like an introvert.

Most people don't see me as an introvert, either. But in front of other people, I cover up my vulnerable side with light banter reminiscent to the ENTP, but I'm rarely, if ever, revealing about my true self...at least, not verbally.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Most people don't see me as an introvert, either. But in front of other people, I cover up my vulnerable side with light banter reminiscent to the ENTP, but I'm rarely, if ever, revealing about my true self...at least, not verbally.

Well you are an INTJ, and INxJ's usually give an early impression of being an extravert. I know enough INTJ's now that I can recognize one after just a little bit of time. INTJ's look like an extravert, but no other extravert quite acts like an INTJ. I don't think I could recongnize an INFJ though without getting to know them fairly well first.

 

[proteanmix]

PM, were you closer to your father or mother? What type do you think this parent is?

I ask this because my father is an INTP, and while growing up I really viewed myself as an introvert. Then one day someone told me "You're no introvert. In fact you're always the life of the party." But because my father and I are very similar (ENTP and INTP) I think I naturally viewed myself as an introvert and I have a lot of behaviors that are like an introvert.

So one approach you could take is if your type is similar to one of your parents then you may be mistyping yourself as too S or N because your parent was S or N and you learned the corresponding behavior from them. So which parent were you closest to and what type are they?

I'm closer to my mother than my father although I pretty sure they're both SJs. I'm not really able to figure out what types my parents are since they're been such huge influences over my life. I can see my mother being an ISFJ and my father an ESTJ but I'm not very sure.

My brother is a INTP and my sis is ISTP and I've always thought that my brother and I communicated more easily than my sister and I. But what are the chances of having two intuitives under one roof?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

If your parents are both SJ's then I'd say that you are an ENFJ, but you've developed your Si more than the average ENFJ making you seem like an S in a lot of ways. I think this is a good thing too btw. You have your natural Ni to guide you, but you can use your developed Si too whenever it would be useful to do so. So I'd say you are an ENFJ with lots of S tendencies.

 

[Usehername]

Well you are an INTJ, and INxJ's usually give an early impression of being an extravert. I know enough INTJ's now that I can recognize one after just a little bit of time. INTJ's look like an extravert, but no other extravert quite acts like an INTJ. I don't think I could recongnize an INFJ though without getting to know them fairly well first.

why do you think INXJs give off early extravert vibes? I thought I was the only one who does this. Any thoughts/observations would be appreciated.

 

[ptgatsby]

I also have been doing some research in the NEO-PI (five factor model) and looking at the openness scores. I took a web version of the test and had high openness, but I don't know if I was testing to get a certain score.

I looked over your score and a bunch of your posts. I would believe you are an N based upon the distribution of your FFM scores and the exploratory nature of your posts.

One of the key things from the NEO is that you scored lower in intellectualism, something that should not have happened if you were aiming for a higher score. That, combined with an otherwise very high open score, would indicate a high probability of you being an N. Normally distributed with a 0.7 correlation would put you in the population area, I would guess, around 15-40%, with ~30% and less being Ns.

The other thing to note is that MBTI uses a different distribution, namely "none", although the development of the test has effectively created a bimodal distribution, so one could that one is assuming a type when you are somewhere in the middle of the pack and wouldn't express or even internally have much of either description.

If you feel this is the case, I would suggest assuming ExFJ rather than trying to fit into one or the other types.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

why do you think INXJs give off early extravert vibes? I thought I was the only one who does this. Any thoughts/observations would be appreciated.

The extravert vibe is a definite trend I've noticed with INxJ's. I know more INTJ's than INFJ's, but both seem to have a lot of energy and can seem outgoing (although INTJ's usually don't have good people skills). I have an INTJ friend that I've known for about 20 years, and if you get him on a subject that he is knowledgable about he can talk non-stop for hours (no exageration). I have to interupt him if I want to say even the slightest thing, otherwise I will not get a word in. One of my bosses at work (aren't corporations great :rolli: ) is INTJ. I thought she was an extravert at first until I talked with her once after a meeting. Once I saw how she approached everything, even her personal life, with a rediculous need for efficiency I realized that she was an INTJ (she talks just like my friend too, which is to say, nonstop).

In fact I've encountered several other INTJ's that have this extraverted feel to them. There is only one person (also someone I work with) with I think is an INTJ and does not have an extraverted feel, but he is in his late 60's, so maybe the energy wears off with age. Also I am quite aware of the difference between an ENTJ and INTJ, so I know that these are INTJ's. ENTJ's have a more abrasive and aggresive personality, and yet somehow the INTJ seems to have poorer social skills as a whole. (No offense to INTJ's that is just how it is.)

Also my wife, ladypinkington, is an INFJ and almost everyone confuses her for an extravert until they get to know her fairly well. I've only known one other person who I was sure was INFJ (she told me she was), and she came across as an extravert at first as well. It was only after getting to know quite a bit about her that I had some indications that she was an introvert.

It's actually very common to see INxJ's with this extraverted feeling. I'm not yet sure if it is universal for every INxJ, but I believe that it shows up more often than not.

 

[Mycroft]

The extravert vibe is a definite trend I've noticed with INxJ's. I know more INTJ's than INFJ's, but both seem to have a lot of energy and can seem outgoing (although INTJ's usually don't have good people skills). I have an INTJ friend that I've known for about 20 years, and if you get him on a subject that he is knowledgable about he can talk non-stop for hours (no exageration). I have to interupt him if I want to say even the slightest thing, otherwise I will not get a word in. One of my bosses at work (aren't corporations great :rolli: ) is INTJ. I thought she was an extravert at first until I talked with her once after a meeting. Once I saw how she approached everything, even her personal life, with a rediculous need for efficiency I realized that she was an INTJ (she talks just like my friend too, which is to say, nonstop).

In fact I've encountered several other INTJ's that have this extraverted feel to them. There is only one person (also someone I work with) with I think is an INTJ and does not have an extraverted feel, but he is in his late 60's, so maybe the energy wears off with age. Also I am quite aware of the difference between an ENTJ and INTJ, so I know that these are INTJ's. ENTJ's have a more abrasive and aggresive personality, and yet somehow the INTJ seems to have poorer social skills as a whole. (No offense to INTJ's that is just how it is.)

Also my wife, ladypinkington, is an INFJ and almost everyone confuses her for an extravert until they get to know her fairly well. I've only known one other person who I was sure was INFJ (she told me she was), and she came across as an extravert at first as well. It was only after getting to know quite a bit about her that I had some indications that she was an introvert.

It's actually very common to see INxJ's with this extraverted feeling. I'm not yet sure if it is universal for every INxJ, but I believe that it shows up more often than not.

I think that I have pretty good social skills these days, but they were hard-earned to be sure. I'm surprised that the INTJs you know are so talkative; I was thinking about it the other day, and I would say that while I'm not shy or soft-spoken, the amount which I speak would probably betray my introverted nature to someone on the look-out for such things.

Protean: for what it's worth I get a pretty solid "N" vibe from you. Not all Ns are space cadets.