[INTP] INTP and Introverted Intuition (Ni)

[entropie]

@Jennifer

That's a cool description and you have a perception of those things equal to mine. I am glad that is so, I was beginning to feel alone without BlueWing or Jack comments that are hard to invoke (or tickle that works here, doesnt it ?).

So I do not know what you do, but I will go to a party now and get abusively drunk

See you later, with a new thread idea of mine

 

[Night]

As a (former) heavy user of Ni, I'd place a disclaimer on its use.

Ni is a heavy weapon.

Takes a great deal of expertise to properly use it.

Early on, it's probably best used as a way to amplify concentration. Ni is great for that. A brilliant complement to Ni is Ti. Ti is a great tool to offset some of the "conspiracy theory" eventualities that can easily spiral from an overindulgent attention to the paranoia of Ni.

Use with caution. Do not operate heavy machinery while using.

 

[Jack Flak]

however, the Ni user does this all subconsciously. The Ti Ne Si INTP, uses Ti, to consciously come to understanding.

I shant give you authority on the knowledge of what goes on in my head. I often have "Eureka!" moments which are by definition out-of-the-blue, regarding a subject I was not contemplating.

 

[Uytuun]

Most INTPs I've interacted with are suspicious of Ni and do not seem to really grasp or appreciate it.

 

[Night]

Most INTPs I've interacted with are suspicious of Ni and do not seem to really grasp or appreciate it.

I'm suspicious of it.

You've had better results?

 

[Jack Flak]

Most INTPs I've interacted with are suspicious of Ni and do not seem to really grasp or appreciate it.

Suspicious indeed of the (when disagreeing) INTJ intuition, just as INTJs avoid our logic like it's a disease, and will corrupt them.

 

[Uytuun]

Suspicious indeed of the (when disagreeing) INTJ intuition, just as INTJs avoid our logic like it's a disease, and will corrupt them.

To be honest, I find that I'm more open to the INTP way of thinking than the reverse. And this also goes for my less N and more J INTJ father. I find the dominant judging in INTPs to be very present when conversing with them. But perhaps INTPs have the same feeling (only extraverted judgement and no father). Perhaps part of it is also a style incompatibility.

Night, no, I can't say that I am. I embrace it without losing awareness of doing so, so to speak. Ni is always relative the way I experience it (and I realise the limits of this relative perspective). It's worked out ok so far. How has Ni been "negative" to you?

 

[Jack Flak]

To be honest, I find that I'm more open to the INTP way of thinking than the reverse. And this also goes for my less N and more J INTJ father. I find the dominant judging in INTPs to be very present when conversing with them. But perhaps INTPs have the same feeling (only extraverted judgement and no father). Perhaps part of it is also a style incompatibility.

The differences rear their extremely ugly heads in arguments. I had a very intelligent INTJ friend for years, and he had more knowledge, but I was more logical. Occasionally I would blindside him with some deduction he'd never thought of, and he would become visibly angry. Being more intelligent than stubborn though, he would absorb this new knowledge and move on.

Of course, I have found a handful of INTJs to be completely insufferable, because they just know the conclusion they came up with which has no relation to reality is the only correct one.

 

[Night]

Night, no, I can't say that I am. I embrace it without losing awareness of doing so, so to speak. Ni is always relative the way I experience it. It's worked out ok so far.

You're very fortunate.

Whenever I make a move on the basis of what my Ni tells me, I always feel like I'm side-stepping into an arena of intellectual convenience...

...that is to say, my decision didn't properly pass the sniff test of my empirically-based Ti. It's as if I'm somehow disrupting the accuracy of my desire by limiting the filtration systems that govern it.

Ironically, it could be my Ni forcing this repetition in intellectual source-checking.

The differences rear their extremely ugly heads in arguments. I had a very intelligent INTJ friend for years, and he had more knowledge, but I was more logical. Occasionally I would blindside him with some deduction he'd never thought of, and he would become visibly angry. Being more intelligent than stubborn though, he would absorb this new knowledge and move on.

Of course, I have found a handful of INTJs to be completely insufferable, because they just know the conclusion they came up with which has no relation to reality is the only correct one.

It sounds like more an issue of emotional maturity (tertiary Fi) than Ni, Jack.

Could be wrong. I'm operating on somewhat of a thin premise, as I'm not personally familiar with your examples.

 

[pippi]

The differences rear their extremely ugly heads in arguments. I had a very intelligent INTJ friend for years, and he had more knowledge, but I was more logical. Occasionally I would blindside him with some deduction he'd never thought of, and he would become visibly angry. Being more intelligent than stubborn though, he would absorb this new knowledge and move on.

Of course, I have found a handful of INTJs to be completely insufferable, because they just know the conclusion they came up with which has no relation to reality is the only correct one.

Is it possible that this is linked to low Ti in those INTJs rather the discrepancy of Ne vs Ni?

 

[Totenkindly]

That's a cool description and you have a perception of those things equal to mine. I am glad that is so, I was beginning to feel alone without BlueWing or Jack comments that are hard to invoke (or tickle that works here, doesnt it ?).

I think you need to use a chainsaw to tickle those two enough to get an in-depth response.

(Although once BW's engine starts running, it goes until the tank is dry.)

So I do not know what you do, but I will go to a party now and get abusively drunk

ha, what a truly carnal Se response.

I'm in the mood, but unfortunately my purse is cheaper than my tastes.

 

[Jack Flak]

Is it possible that this is linked to low Ti in those INTJs rather the discrepancy of Ne vs Ni?

Possibly. Intelligence goes a long way in matters of intellect, if you can believe that.

 

[pippi]

Possibly. Intelligence goes a long way in matters of intellect, if you can believe that.

Just wondered since you also said you think INTJs don't appreciate INTP logic. Seemed like more of a lack of Ti than dominance of Ni.

 

[Totenkindly]

Just wondered since you also said you think INTJs don't appreciate INTP logic. Seemed like more of a lack of Ti than dominance of Ni.

I don't know, I've known INTJs (including my boss, for awhile) who were hung up on Ni and Te and seemed to view Ti as a wrench in their beautiful machine.

 

[Jack Flak]

Just wondered since you also said you think INTJs don't appreciate INTP logic. Seemed like more of a lack of Ti than dominance of Ni.

Okay. I really need to put "Functional analysis is dead" back in my sig, so I don't have to state my opinion on the matter daily, but for the sake of argument, I'll pretend like FA is the word of God for the moment.

If an INTJ has out of control Ni, they'll think whatever they decide (with their relatively puny Thinking function(s)) is indisputable. You can't argue with that.

 

[pippi]

You're very fortunate.

Whenever I make a move on the basis of what my Ni tells me, I always feel like I'm side-stepping into an arena of intellectual convenience...

...that is to say, my decision didn't properly pass the sniff test of my empirically-based Ti. It's as if I'm somehow disrupting the accuracy of my desire by limiting the filtration systems that govern it.

Ironically, it could be my Ni forcing this repetition in intellectual source-checking.

Side-stepping? As in you are uncomfortable with the decision because you can't see all the steps your subconscious mind used to come to that decision so it lacks logic somehow? Your Ti battles with your Ni because you don't know why you know? Sorry I'm just thinking out loud trying to understand what you meant by this, am I close?

 

[Night]

To explain a bit further - for me, Ti provides a defensible framework. A series of intellectual footprints to reference, should I need to double-check my judgment.

Think of Ti as you would a Geometric proof. To prove a theorem, you must show your work. If A, then B. Because of B, then C.

My Ni is more an aggregation of knowledge. Like birdshot. Once fired, I'll probably hit quite a few different targets, but won't have near the surgical precision that Ti offers.

This doesn't suggest that Ti is infallible. Far from it. Functions are only as valuable as the user inclines them to be.


Ti is a thumbprint. Ni is a chalk outline.

 

[pippi]

Okay. I really need to put "Functional analysis is dead" back in my sig, so I don't have to state my opinion on the matter daily, but for the sake of argument, I'll pretend like FA is the word of God for the moment.

If an INTJ has out of control Ni, they'll think whatever they decide (with their relatively puny Thinking function(s)) is indisputable. You can't argue with that.

I'm an INTJ, I can argue with anything.

Kidding, I agree that out of control Ni with Te to back it up for confirmation bias is not a good thing. That is one of the problems with Ni, you don't really know why you know because of the random way the conclusion is reached, figuring out when to just go with it and how to balance it with the other functions takes maturity and that intelligence stuff you mentioned before.

 

[Jack Flak]

I agree, night. We live in a world of degree and difference, as do our minds.

Kidding, I agree that out of control Ni with Te to back it up for confirmation bias is not a good thing. That is one of the problems with Ni, you don't really know why you know because of the random way the conclusion is reached, figuring out when to just go with it and how to balance it with the other functions takes maturity and that intelligence stuff you mentioned before.

And INTJs are easy to get along with unless they're wrong.

 

[pippi]

To explain a bit further - for me, Ti provides a defensible framework. A series of intellectual footprints to reference, should I need to double-check my judgment.

Think of Ti as you would a Geometric proof. To prove a theorem, you must show your work. If A, then B. Because of B, then C.

My Ni is more an aggregation of knowledge. Like birdshot. Once fired, I'll probably hit quite a few different targets, but won't have near the surgical precision that Ti offers.

This doesn't suggest that Ti is infallible. Far from it. Functions are only as valuable as the user inclines them to be.


Ti is a thumbprint. Ni is a chalk outline.

Thanks, that is along the same lines I was thinking, I understand the show your work issue with Ni. I do question why you value Ti over Ni though, sounds to me that you have made a decision to use Ti instead of Ni or is it that you double check your Ni with Ti to see if the conclusion is sound?